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A couple more pics of Fox on the ranges at Warcop. 

Am I alone in believing that Fox was retired prematurely? 

Whilst admitting that it had its share of mechanical problems; was top heavy and had limited off road capability due to its four wheel configuration; it was also fast, quiet, well-armed; relatively well protected against small arms fire: highly manoeuvrable; easily transported and deployed, etc, etc. 

I can't see where a vehicle like Jackal wins over Fox. Surely in a theatre of low intensity ops, like Afghanistan, Fox would have been ideal suited? 

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37 minutes ago, Pzkpfw-e said:

What are they like when they run over a mine? Not that the Jackal's any good from that point of view.

 I would guess that the under-hull armour is comparable to Scimitar, which was deployed in Afghanistan: although I must admit that I don't know how either compare with Jackal in this respect.

Obviously the wheels and tracks of any vehicle would be vulnerable.

It goes without saying that the IED protection afforded by either Fox or Scimitar would exceed that of 'snatch' Landrovers which were initially deployed in Iraq and Afghanistan, though even a Challenger sustained severe damage, and its driver severe injuries, when detonating an IED in Iraq.

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On 4/4/2020 at 6:32 AM, 11rjkg said:

A couple more pics of Fox on the ranges at Warcop. 

Am I alone in believing that Fox was retired prematurely? 

Whilst admitting that it had its share of mechanical problems; was top heavy and had limited off road capability due to its four wheel configuration; it was also fast, quiet, well-armed; relatively well protected against small arms fire: highly manoeuvrable; easily transported and deployed, etc, etc. 

I can't see where a vehicle like Jackal wins over Fox. Surely in a theatre of low intensity ops, like Afghanistan, Fox would have been ideal suited? 

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IMG_20200404_120641.jpg

IMG_20200404_120804.jpg


not enough machine guns, not light enough. Won’t go where the jackal will go and not as quickly air portable. 

fast, either. Remember the tendency of the foxes to flip. Jackals are a lot more stable. 

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1 hour ago, fadedsun said:


not enough machine guns, not light enough. Won’t go where the jackal will go and not as quickly air portable. fast, either. Remember the tendency of the foxes to flip. Jackals are a lot more stable. 

Have you had any one to one experience of Fox? I worked on these from the time they entered service to when they were demobbed, around 18-20 year I think. We did repair work for a number of units that operated Fox over that long period and there were very few that came in with roll over damage.  As for speed, what armoured recce vehicle do you know that will do 90mph? I was in the turret of one on road test and can vouch for this as I could see the speedo and passed every vehicle on the road.

Any vehicle can flip if not driven with care.

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Thank goodness the wading screen was removed very early in their service life. At the workshops we received an elaborate jig for pulling the engine out through the back so the screen was not disturbed, this was only done once as I recall. Shouts of joy when we found out that it was no longer needed, engine removal was a doddle after that. The Fox certainly kept our workshops busy.

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I owned a Fox for many years  and not only was it fast but for an armoured  vehicle its acceleration  was fantastic. When I was young and daft  on rares occasion when various cars were impatient to pass at traffic lights  I would surprise the owners at the speed of the Fox. I only tried once its  speed  and thought 70 mph was fast enough and ran it at 40-50mph. They were the sports care of armour all my ferrets were slow in comparison . I had a lot of fun in it but it needed respect  on roundabouts and hidden ditches.The ferret looked so small in comparison  but the Fox was cramped in the turret .

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I had the same experience when I joined he LAD of the RY in Trowbridge.    I owned a Saladin a the time which painfully needed a B81 instead of a B80 to give it more power but jumping into a Fox and being able to pull out on to roundabouts at the same speed as a car was amazing.

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Some interesting additions. 

Fox certainly had an impressive turn of speed, though I seem to recall that standing orders stated that it shouldn't be driven in excess of 40mph.

As Richard says, if driven sensibly it shouldn't be particularly susceptible to overturning. However, if driven at stupid speed around a tightbend it would 'flip' easily. 

I like the pics of the prototype. I recall regularly travelling on the  train past ROF Leeds in the late 70's, and there being a discarded prototype Vixen  decaying just inside the perimeter fence. 

I guess two of Barry's pics of NH Sqn QOY show CES (complete eqpt schedule) checks, whilst one shows Fox being driven in the rain. Creature comforts were negligible; with physical discomfort combined with the natural elements entering straight thro' the dvr's hatch and into the fighting compartment.

Perspex windscreens were issued at some stage, but were rarely used, aas they weren't very user friendly. 

I've attached a few more pics; one of QOY & RY parading with guidons unfurled in front of the Queen in Imphal Bks, York. The other two show Fox on Crusader 80 in Germany ; one showing a maintenance day, and the other at Endex (sigh of relief), with the usual accompaniment of German kids! 

The scale of those exercises could never be replicated now. 

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On 4/12/2020 at 4:31 PM, fadedsun said:


not enough machine guns, not light enough. Won’t go where the jackal will go and not as quickly air portable. 

fast, either. Remember the tendency of the foxes to flip. Jackals are a lot more stable. 

My Bn Recce Plt used FOX when in 19 Inf Bde.  I served in every position in the crew, started as a Dvr ended up as a section Comd.  Bloody loved it.  We never had one roll, they were okay cross country.  We did an exercise (can’t remember the name of it or the Cav unit we worked with) at SPTA where we worked with Sqn of Challie 1s practicing advancing to contact and also withdrawing.  We mostly kept up with them.  My wagon and crew also had a day with the RAF.  We helped rig the wagon for lifting (at Knook Camp) and then it was lifted by CHINOOK and flown to Copehill.  It would have been great if FOX could have been fitted with something like TOGS or even the BGTI rather than the II it had.  I have some of our old wagons on these pages over the years.

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