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oil leak on Dodge T215 engine


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Hi everyone

can anyone give me guidance on low oil pressure/leak on my Dodge T215

I have had my  Dodge laid up for a three months to sort out brakes and recore the radiator.  During this time i drained engine and gear box oil to replace both of them whilst off the road. After this work was done i replaced the filter and oil. The engine was fine at first,  then the oil pressure started to drop. Since then i have started it up a few times but with the same problem of low oil pressure ! this is not caused by anything to do with the radiator repair or water temperature as it drops within seconds of starting up!

these are the steps i have taken up to now.

replaced new oil filter with a another new different make listed replacement

replaced oil filter hoses

tried using a thicker oil, 

20/50

removed filter housing cleaned it out and used airline to blow it through and make sure hole in filter tube was clear

removed oil pressure valve (twice) from block checked hole in piston was clear.

broke into the oil pressure gauge line and ran a pipe to a modern 0-100 psi oil pressure gauge

tried leaving oil pressure valve out and cranking engine over after removing rotor arm. got some oil out of hole, but not under any great pressure , although  i dont know if that is a relevant test or test result result !

disconnected the new oil gauge, cranked engine over , got oil coming from pipe but not under any great pressure ! once again not sure if that is a relevant test or result.

I have got a sump gasket set and i planned  to remove the sump and check that the oil strainer pan and its pipe are clear and pivoting,  but before i started to undo the first oil sump pan bolt i noticed that the visible edge of the sump pan gasket appeared to be oily and indeed the underneath of the sump itself appeared to be oily. At the rear of the engine near the flywheel there is a "plate" with a fibre/felt seal. This was also wet with oil.

I might add there is no oil on the floor under the vehicle and its been parked in the spot it is now for some time

I am planning to get fitted a new oil pump when i can get one

I cannot smell petrol on the dipstick and the oil level does not appear to be raising so i do not think petrol is leaking into the sump via a faulty fuel pump diaphragm

so i guess my question is ... if the sump gasket is leaking slightly would that cause low oil pressure and can anyone please give me advice as to what it might be, or am i looking at an engine out rebuild !!!!!

thanks Mike

 

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Just had a look at the manual under trouble shooting. The recomendations are basically worn parts in oil pump, or Oil pressure relif valve not seating. I know it sounds stupid, but did you get out as much oil as you put in ? If there is a discrepancy and no leack, it must be burning it. If the same amount came out, oil pump may well be problem. Mine have run on 20/50 fine for years. I prefer the Halford's Classic 20/50. The manual gives a pump rebuild procedure

 

Edited by Tony B
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Tony thanks for this. yes i think it was the same although i must admit i did not check it carefully. I have to say i did not run it for very long as the pressure was so low. Yes i have read up the manual on it including the trouble shooting. The puzzle is that it was fine when i last used it before bringing it into work to sort out brakes and radiator . I am,  as are so many people in this hobby only an amateur so i do not have a depth of knowledge or experience to draw on, but it is odd how it can be fine  one minute then after a lay off,  this problem. I still not dropped sump pan yet to check float/strainer but according to manual its designed so that if strainer gets clogged the oil should by pass it  . I want to make sure it ( the strainer ) is mobile enough to be immersed in the oil though. I just hope i can get an oil pump as well  and the Corona virus does not affect supply or delivery

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Hi, How long did you leave the engine without oil? The Rover v8 has  a problem if you drain the oil the pump looses oil and you have to pack the pump  with vasaline to pick up the oil again.

Regards Frank.

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yes, the curse of the 101. I'll look in the manual again. With the 101 it was change oil or change filter, Change both and if you ain't read the manual a world of hurrt! 😁

Edited by Tony B
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Ok so nothing specific about priming oil pump. Though may well be worth pouring some oil ove rthe filter so that it drains down and clears any airlock. Manual says Idle oil pressure 15 psi, if no reading after thirty seconds stop. Hot running oil pressure 40 to 50 psi. Have you tried cranking engine with the ignition off ? See if that builds a pressure. For future reference a US Quart is roughly 1 litre.

Edited by Tony B
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the Dodge was stood for quite some time after draining the oil and removing the filter. at least 5 weeks . so the mention of oil pump problem after standing without oil sounds interesting. i did turn it over using starting handle before starting it up when i did eventually put in new oil and fitted a new filter though. Strangly enough , when i did start it up for the first time with the new oil and filter, it ran with decent oil pressure for two or three  minutes or so before before it started to fall. Thereafter it dropped pressure more or less immediately after each start up. 

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check the oil pressure relif valve is seating propoerly would be my suggestion. Then coplete pump strip and rebuild. A quick thought. Might be worth chucking a bottle of oil seal expander in. A seal might have dried out.

 

Edited by Tony B
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ok 5 weeks is quite a long time, any oil in the pump will have drained away and now cannot draw up fresh. I would pack the oil pump with vaseline and start again. Or when I collected a 101 that had been standing for 5 years I cheated and over filled the sump by 5 litres to bring the level above the pump to prime it, then drained out the oil to the correct level,

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Hello Mike, it has been a while since I saw your half ton, for sure.

The weeping oil at the felt seal, no problem.  Normally does that when well worn.  As long as it doesn't get back to the clutch just clean it off and ignore it.

I suspect your engine ran very happily for many years on non-detergent oil, and had a good supply of sludge in the system, then you drained it out and replaced it with modern oil with a detergent content which did it's job and washed all the gunge further down stream - and took all your oil pressure with it.

Pull the sump and clean it thoroughly, check the big ends.  The biggest effect on the Dodge oil pressure is the main bearings, so give the crank a rattle and see if you can detect play.  Check oil pump for clearance and adjust or replace, consider your options for main bearing replacement if nothing else gets you to where you need to be.  Do NOT forget the little 'h' seals in he rear main bearing cap if you have to remove and replace - gasket goo or sealant will not do.

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On 3/28/2020 at 9:55 PM, Gordon_M said:

I suspect your engine ran very happily for many years on non-detergent oil, and had a good supply of sludge in the system, then you drained it out and replaced it with modern oil with a detergent content which did it's job and washed all the gunge further down stream - and took all your oil pressure with it.

 

Gordon has a good point here,  if the new oil has stirred up sludge in the bottom of the sump it may well have blinded the  mesh screen on the floating pick up head,  it's the feed for the whole lubrication system and if this has become restricted it would explain your sudden loss of oil pressure.

This is the easiest and cheapest first step in diagnosing and solving your problem.   What ever the out come make sure you let us all know what the problem was and how it was fixed it's always useful to know the outcome of issues like this.

Pete  

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Thanks to everyone for the advice given. hello Gordon long time no speak if you know what i mean. I am debating whether to drop the sump today. My concern is that my Dodge is here in my workplace, and with things being as they are i may end up starting a job and not be able to finish it.  My workplace may be closing for a period of time because of the Corona virus situation , at any time now and i dont fancy the idea of leaving it with the sump pan removed.

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It has been a while, I think I had brown hair when we last met.😥  I wouldn't risk dismantling it now, but plan on at least a sump clean some time after all the germs have been killed.

If you want a Baldric-type cunning plan which won't cost anything and may solve your problem in a single bound, take the gauge connection off the back of the gauge and blow through it ( compressed air? ) back to the oil gallery.  There is a chance that some lump of dislodged crud is partially blocking either the gauge line itself or the gauge line connection at the high pressure gallery.  I suppose you could take the whole line off and blow through it, but don't forget the connection into the gallery too.

Edited by Gordon_M
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Sump off. float removed. Filter gauze was very cruddy . cleaned and refitted making sure float was free moving, but i bent top tang slightly to make it stay lower. Next job is the pump. I cannot get a new one yet so i am going to follow the advice given on this forum and elsewhere and i have ordered pump gasket and liquid grease ( like vaseline ?!). I intend to take off the pump and using said grease,  prime up the pump and refit it and try again. Thats if i can get access to my works

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The 101 mnaual specifically says Petroleum  Jelly, ie Vasaline not grease to pack the pump. On the V8 the filter is mounted above the pupm and is the interlocking gear type, flat. You take bottom covver off and stuff the jelly between the gear cogs. There is no mention of priming in the Dodge manual, if the strainer is clear and below oil level, I'd be wary of adding anything else, wind the engine over with crank handle or plugs out first to se eif pressure comes up.

Edited by Tony B
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Hi, Just to check the idea of vaseline is the lower melting point so as not to block oil ways next time it is started from cold. The liquid grease you are using do you no the melting point?

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I would recommend you test for oil pressure now before doing anything else that screen looked very clogged in your photos.

Your low oil pressure problem could be one of several different or interconnected faults by doing lots of things without testing in between you will not find out what the problem was.  All you'll know is that hopefully it went away and just like problems with ignition systems that will be fine until the problem suddenly returns at a later date.

Pete

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Quote

There is a chance that some lump of dislodged crud is partially blocking either the gauge line itself or the gauge line connection at the high pressure gallery.

I know, you have already seen that, but the state of that strainer suggests that cleaning the gauge feed line may be even more important.  🧐

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     Always  use Petroleum Jelly on gear pumps as using liquid grease restrict the oilways and creates long stringy grease. I made the mistake  of using grease many years ago on my  AC  Cobra during a full engine rebuild  The result  was no oil pressure and a knackered big end.   

 I am  refurbishing an Austin Champ and whilst stripping the engine and in the sump was a large heap of sludge, this was  probably caused  with detergent oil loosening all the old sludge in the engine. Detergent oil usually keep the dirt in suspension  but with an old engine  it loosens all the hidden  sludge in lumps.    If  the oil strainer is blocked with sludge then no oil will be delivered around any engine  with either on a full flow filter or a by pass filter.

Another trick we used to do on some engines with low oil pressure was to put washers under the oil pressure spring .

A point is low oil pressure is ok on some engines  its oil flow that matters.

Edited by tankdiver
meant Petroleum Jelly not Vaseline
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hi everyone and once again thanks for your suggestions. first regarding checking if any of the steps i have tried have worked. i agree and i have done this except for what i have done today. it seems to me that nothing has worked up to now,  but it will come right in the end.  what i may do is re fit the sump fill with oil and try again before i pack / prime the pump . second,  regarding vaseline versus liquid grease. the product i was planning to use may not be actually a liquid grease. that was my own interpretation of what it is that i have ordered. when i get it,  i will describe it better to this forum. if it turns out Vaseline,  as suggested on this forum is what is best, then thats what i will use. third , i will blow air through the pressure gauge line as suggested in case there is anything in there,  but oil did come through the line when i cranked  the engine with the gauge removed

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Posted (edited)

thanks for the advice. i have to say i thought vaseline was petroleum jelly ! so i will look for it ( petroleum jelly ) on the net in case i do use it 🕵️

Edited by panelvan
big fingers
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14 minutes ago, panelvan said:

thanks for the advice. i have to say i thought vaseline was petroleum jelly ! so i will look for it ( petroleum jelly ) on the net in case i do use it 🕵️

You can get petroleum jelly from the chemist. When we used it on engine building at REME workshops it was supplied as a 'medical product'.

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3 hours ago, panelvan said:

thanks for the advice. i have to say i thought vaseline was petroleum jelly ! so i will look for it ( petroleum jelly ) on the net in case i do use it 🕵️

Vaseline vs Petroleum Jelly

Vaseline and petroleum jelly are often mistaken for being the same thing but what people do not know is that Vaseline and petroleum jelly still have distinct differences that many people are not aware of. Vaseline is widely known as a brand name of petroleum jelly and that is actually a fact. Although their differences may be not that noticeable, they do still exist.

Full article:-

http://www.differencebetween.net/business/product-services/differences-between-vaseline-and-petroleum-jelly/

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