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It being a Tuesday evening, it was clearly time for Monday Club!  Monday club has many rules and purposes, some confoundingly complex. Firstly it is generally held on any evening except a Monday (sic)

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Welcome to the Leyland restorers 'club'.  Lots of early Leylands in Australia and New Zealand.  Fertile ground for these beasts.

Most are a mix of two/four/six ton being S3 variants, and larger PH2 & 4, also A type. Several later fire engines reside in NZ - Ferrymead. No SQ variants; that I know of.

A very few pre-great-war Leylands exist.  A 'U type' fire engine in Hobart. An X4.40.V, and a very early S(?) in NZ. And, what I believe to be an S2, in my shed.

Cheers

Robert

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There are a few of us in the hard rubber club in Aus and as Robert says most early Leylands here are PH 4 & 5 tonners as well as  the 2/3 ton C models. In Leyland speak SQ2 is a side type (forward control) 6 ton long goods. I see your motor has the Ricardo heads which were introduced around 1926/27 and make s life easier if you have a stuck piston. It looks like it was either converted to pneumatics with Leyland hubs or came that way new and the solids have been thrown into the deal. I am sure if you keep your Leyland Society membership up Mike will put you straight. I would suggest you do the chassis first and then you have something to hang the newly restored parts on as you go.

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There is a saying out here ... that every day it rains is a good day!  And there's nothing wrong with warm English beer... as I discovered to 'my surprise' many years ago (sacre bleu)!  In a way i have taken the same tack, treating the engine to a rebuild early on; as a way of building project momentum.  

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"wreck friendly climate" is true of  inland Aus but near the coast and more so as you go to the humid north iron starts to recycle overnight. All of my Leyland wrecks have the front cross member rusted out. The other issue with surviving hard rubber wrecks here is that many had the rear chassis cut off so they could be used as rudimentry cranes (with solid tyres the only limit of lift was the level of your stupidity). The other issues is that, like in Britain, there was a push to get hard rubber off the road by authorities and the tyre companies of the time offered a conversion service which involved cutting off the rim and welding (wheels are cast steel not iron) on a new  American style clip on rim for pneumatics.  So standard solid wheels are rather rare. Was well done but the problem nowadays is that they used a very odd size which can be sourced from USA but at huge $$$.

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Welcome to "Leyland Restorers Club" Not many of us . I like your intro, and the time frames you work to. It is like that here at home ( in New Zealand ), there always seems to be other items that need attention or repair, or work about the orchard where seasons and climate are key factors.

As others from Australia have pointed out there were plenty of Leylands in use on this side of the world and many survived into latter use as trailers or with chopped chassis and the engines then driving sawmills , pumps and similar industrial plant. Latter life again was towards the scrap man so locating parts now is a challenge. 

The Leyland  collection here is mainly model C and A types, an RAF  and now members of the zoo models . The collection of parts is slow but  important in being able to gather enough up to warrant each rebuild. There is sufficient variation over the years in parts and models that an easy interchange is not always possible.

What is the chassis number of yours ?( Front cross member,  centre  on curve )

 Doug

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Congratulations on joining the Leyland club. You have a lot of hard but rewarding work ahead of you. I got the early lorry "bug" helping my brother with his Leyland RAF type which he bought as 8 separate lots of spares from the Keeley sale. He has left over from this project the remains of two Ricardo type engines (like yours) which may be of use to you. He has had the oil pump, water pump and camshaft for his lorry. But there's a very good crankshaft and rods, still with lots of shims. Numerous other bits too. If you are interested, I understand that you can Private Message through this forum. Not sure how, I'm a newbie and haven't tried. Good luck with your project! Doc.

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49 minutes ago, Doc said:

 If you are interested, I understand that you can Private Message through this forum. Not sure how, I'm a newbie and haven't tried. Good luck with your project! Doc.

Click on his profile then on message box. 

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Posted (edited)

 

On 2/29/2020 at 5:21 PM, Doc said:

.He has left over from this project the remains of two Ricardo type engines (like yours) which may be of use to you. He has had the oil pump, water pump and camshaft for his lorry. But there's a very good crankshaft and rods, still with lots of shims. Numerous other bits too. If you are interested, I understand that you can Private Message through this forum. Not sure how, I'm a newbie and haven't tried. Good luck with your project!

 

Edited by Scrunt & Farthing
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Attached is a photo showing the location of  chassis  and production numbers stamped on to the front cross member. In the centre of the cross member  and to the left of the image ( not shown) is the model number stamped. In this case it is a GH4

Some times a replacement cross member has been installed and an ex War Dept part has been used. The number on that is much larger and stamped along the flat top surface.

Doug

leyland chassis numbers     alt eml may 2012 048.jpg

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Mike Sutcliffe wrote an extensive article on identifying the RAF types in Leyland Journal issue no 2, and in Leyland Torque No 12 there is a chassis list covering series up to 1969. There is also often a second number on the front chassis member and that is the sales order number

So your chassis number would be correct, and at a guess December  1928 or January 1929.  Mike may be able to help with closer dating. Production of the 5/6 ton  models ceased in September 1930 - one year after production of all  the other RAF types ceased.

Sales Data Sheet for July 1928, also published in Leyland Torque, list the 6 ton goods QH2 with a choice of  pneumatic or solid tyres, the QH6 tipper with solids, and the SQ2 as a 6/7 ton goods with solid tyres.

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On 2/26/2020 at 1:43 PM, Scrunt & Farthing said:

The one out-of-sequence concession I will make is to rubber the tyres and get that cost sunk, soon-as.  Solid tyres are expensive playthings, best paid for when the wife ain't looking.

It's worth looking at polyurethane tyres as an option. We had some front tyres done by Jobel Engineering in Cornwall for our Garrett wagon. They removed the original rubber from the bands, and cast new tyres for about half the price that rubber tyres were quoted at. They've been very satisfactory on the front of the Garrett with no signs of deterioration - as you no doubt know, undertype wagons are notoriously hard on their front tyres. I believe others here (including the Gosling family) have used them too and have been satisfied.

I also strongly advocate making sure you get new tyres made on bands, rather than attached directly to the wheels. They look better, and you also have the option to swap tyres much more easily (as they can be pressed on and off).

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7 minutes ago, QL Driver said:

It's worth looking at polyurethane tyres as an option. We had some front tyres done by Jobel Engineering in Cornwall for our Garrett wagon. They removed the original rubber from the bands, and cast new tyres for about half the price that rubber tyres were quoted at. They've been very satisfactory on the front of the Garrett with no signs of deterioration - as you no doubt know, undertype wagons are notoriously hard on their front tyres. I believe others here (including the Gosling family) have used them too and have been satisfied.

I also strongly advocate making sure you get new tyres made on bands, rather than attached directly to the wheels. They look better, and you also have the option to swap tyres much more easily (as they can be pressed on and off).

I am very interested in the cast polyurethane tyres you mention Ed, can they replicate the lettering on the edge of the tyre (make, size etc) as I think this adds to the originality of the vehicle. On Dave Eves recreation of the Fowler B6 Showman’s “Onward” he has got “Macintosh Endless Rubber” (or something similar) written on the sidewall as per the original, speaking to him he achieved this by cutting the letter out and glueing them onto the spun on rubbers, I must admit the end result is very good.

Regards

David

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The way that they are made (as I understand it) is that a ring of the approx OD required is rolled, and the band is set concentrically within it. The polyurethane is then poured into the resulting gap and left to cure. The tyre is then put in a lathe and turned to the desired profile.

Lettering is certainly something that is missing from almost all new tyres (I think the only company that does them with lettering is Coker Tire in Tennessee.  I'll have a chat with my polymers materials engineering friends at work and I'll see if I can find something out about suitable adhesives to bond to a polyurethane. The thing I'm always a bit wary of is that if you use the tyres frequently, then I'd expect that the lettering could start to fall off.

tyre1.jpg

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  • 2 weeks later...

Evening.

Funny how most things yield when you show them the hydraulic puller.

Pretty sure the part you require is on one of my brother's spare engines. Once movement restrictions have been relaxed you'll be able to come see for yourself.

Was tidying my desk at work this week in preparation for "working from home" and stumbled across the list of new felt seals I had made for David's lorry. So, when the time comes, give me a shout and I can send you the list and put you on to the company that made them, or I can get them for you.

Regards

Doc (Andy)

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