Bob042 Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 Anyone have a pair of genuine LR (Wingard) 7"x 5" mirror heads in good used condition/NOS they might want to part with for a fair price? Not interested in the Ashtree or BM plastic stuff around these days. Regards Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxy Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 I think you mean MRC 8276 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radiomike7 Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 Also check out MRC2458 and DA2130 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxy Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 29 minutes ago, radiomike7 said: Also check out MRC2458 and DA2130 Sorry - not what he requires. ------------------------------------- This is a bit complex. Even the Solihull Supplementary Parts lists have it wrong. He wants a door hinge mounted Wingard metal head for a Wingard boomerang arm. The metal head has the securing clip correct dia. for the arm dia. This is the larger dia. arm (approx. 5/8" dia) , it originated from the Wingard "commercial vehicle range" , I used to order them from a factor. In the years the metal head was factory fitted , spares were UNIPART numbered to Franchise dealers. However ISTR Unipart may not have supplied loose heads and this was from time of introduction mid 1982 to end of S3 production. Mirrors were a total PITA , the early Lightweight wing Wingard boomerang was a special long length supplied only to Solihull. I have them new in Unipart boxes and probable LRP&E boxed. I used to also fit door hinge mounted using kits , the mirror matched the mirror head on wing and was oblong plastic MRC 55 , the arms are smaller dia. approx. 1/2" . I don't think Solihull ever fitted these civvy Optional Parts Cat. kits to the door hinges (the bracket plate was pressed). The factory went straight to the thick plate hinge bracket (to prevent vibration with a 5" x 7" commercial head and heavy duty commercial arm) . Door mounted mirrors were such a mess , I haven't explained all - no wonder the Army fitted Defender ones, the last months/years of Lightweight production may have had them fitted too.# Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob042 Posted February 5, 2020 Author Share Posted February 5, 2020 17 hours ago, ruxy said: I think you mean MRC 8276 You are right, MRC8276 convex, not MRC8270 which are flat (my typo error). My vehicle is a December '79 build Lightweight FFR. Currently it is fitted with the later, August '82 on until production end, Defender type MTC5083 door mirrors mounted via brackets MRC2863 to the top door hinges. My intention is to replace these with the correct for build MRC4583 mirror arms and MRC8276 heads. I have a good pair of original Land rover (Wingard) MRC4583 arms but I need a pair of the original Land rover (Wingard) MRC8276 steel mirror heads to go with them. The mounting bracket is the same for either. So, anyone with a decent pair of the aforesaid MRC8276, I would be very appreciative. Not bothered if the glass is broken. Regards and thanks for the input. Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Grundy Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 This post got me thinking (not being a mirror expert) that I have a new one in box one. The box has 1997 written on it; MIRROR ASSY REARVIEW, NSN 25409 99 550177, Heated, 12v, Rect Glass, 234MM LG 215MM, W Frame P/No 281049502 Its no use to me, any offers ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob042 Posted February 9, 2020 Author Share Posted February 9, 2020 Regrettably, that's not what I'm after but thanks for posting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxy Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 (edited) Bob - believe me , I have "MIRROR" correspondence going back to Sept. 1984 when I purchased L'wt 50HG75 (DIS 12/1980) , Contract FVE22A/115/ Item 4 this was with a Mr. Isdale of Land Rover (Solihull Technical) . He also supplied me with the Contract "Supplementary Parts List" , I had to phone him (as normal) to receive info. he was able to only give verbal. It is interesting that the sketch on the list front cover shows both wing and door mounted mirrors , this is probably wrong, the contents for mirrors on Page 22 MISCELLANEOUS STOWAGES AND EQUIPMENT is also wrong , and Mr Isdale agreed it was very very wrong, he did give me an explanation - the vehicle was part of a frustrated export order for the Shah of Iran (like tanks politically blocked) , so the British Army received a 'windfall' of tanks and L'wt. I would suggest the British Gov. immediately blocked export (Jan. 1979) to Ayatollah Khomeini probably as soon as he left his tent on the outskirts of Paris. ISTR you have 19HF14 (FFR) Contract FVE22A/87/ Item 1 (I have 23HF86) GS FVE22A/87 Item 3 DIS July 1979 . I obtained at CMA Shepshed on 21/3/1989, not a minta but VGC - I paid top $ in fact £2950 , on the day I also paid £442.50 VAT (to get it off their premises) (total £3392.50) .. I disputed the VAT on the 'rules' and later they paid it back. Likewise - I have the Solihull detail build sheets Contracts FVE22A/78/87 & 94 (I believe for all Item Nos. - built between Jan. to Nov. 1979). Rover Mods. L16913/17364/17668 ---------------- I again tackled the Sales Rep for Wingard , later I drove 23HF86 1 mile to the premises of Snowballs (Railway Street) Bishop Auckland, to again request the door mirrors to be positive ID , received Ref. nos. for their Agent (Snowballs ) to order on. Snowballs were still in part with their main business of Ex-WD Bedford lorries & spares for. I then again consulted with Wilsons Motors . LR franchise dealers along the street, the conclusion reached :- RTC 9842CB March 1981 Land Rover OPTIONAL EQUIPMENT PARTS CATALOGUE. Page 2E12 Series 3 Land Rover DESTINED for France and Italy from November 1977 onwards. You will be aware of LR Fiche S3 88" 1/2 ton MILITARY VEHICLE RTC9968FA June 1993 It gives Fiche2 2 D7 BODY CHASSIS MIRRORS. It gives Note 1 and Note 2 Fitted up to July 1982 and from August 1982 The above note(s) are truly WRONG , how can it be correct when clearly the hardware in situ. evidence indicates as supposition they were fitted as far back as 1979 ? Yes - they could have been retro-fitted in service. IMHO the documentary evidence covers L'wt built from Jan 1979 ORIGINALLY ORDERED FOR THE BRITISH MOD, however NOT for EXPORT ORDER (originally but vehicles taken on strength by the British MOD). ------------------- There is no doubt what the Solihull DOCUMENTARY EVIDENCE states 19HF14 was "Ex-works" mirror fitted & you may not like to be told :- 1. Wing mounted 569137 , Mirror complete,mounted on wings coded as AD (AD from Preface = to indicate an additional item on the vehicle) In fact these are the long stem (Lightweight specific ONLY Wingard boomerang) AND fitted with a ROUND plastic head 606178 (Unipart No. Supersession also IIRC). The interesting thing is these were IIRC originally Rover 1 S2A and very early S3 --FL-- , from --FM-- approx. up to door mounted type the Mirror head was the Wingard oblong plastic type - 345599 !! However - there is no doubt whatsoever (according to Solihull records) yout L'wt was Ex-works for defo. with a pair of MRC2863 Mounting bracket for door mirror. So there in a nutshell you have it - thick plate type bracket , BUT NO ARM & MIRROR secured to same. So - if not Dispatch rectification, did the Ordnance Depot actually order in and fit the HD door mirror arm and head (as explained identical to the France & Italy "Export Spec." ) or from abt. 1984 they may just have discovered the Civvy Defender MTC5085 Arm for convex mirror , could in fact be fitted to the special HD thick bracket then mount it's mate MTC 5084 Exterior mirror -convex. We (you and I ) are aware = just thumb through the MJC book,, in service all sorts of adaptations were made for / to L'wt wing mirrors and also alternative makes/sizes (plastic & metal shells) heads to Wingard arms. Me , being a self-appointed , worst type of rivet-counter - I go along with how the vehicle left Solihull "Dispatch In/Out" (rectification could in fact change things) . Door mirrors on Late Lightweights - probably the only detail I don't know for absolute certainty. Edited February 9, 2020 by ruxy spelin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MatchFuzee Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 Is this the correct mirror? https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/333505218631 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxy Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 3 minutes ago, MatchFuzee said: Is this the correct mirror? https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/333505218631 It seems to me wrong shape/size of shell , also the clip seems the smaller size & thus the delve for swivel is also wrong dims. It is a much more complex subject. Probably you will find the correct type on Post Office Sherpa vans , & other authority that specified HD fittings. I don't recall the HD's on agricultural tractors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MatchFuzee Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 50 minutes ago, ruxy said: Probably you will find the correct type on Post Office Sherpa vans This one is even embossed PO https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/324061471919 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2691H Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 My only input on this subject is the same mirror head for a 110 purchased from a Sherpa dealership, is much less expensive than from a Landrover dealership.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxy Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 1 hour ago, MatchFuzee said: This one is even embossed PO https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/324061471919 Actually , that is a very rare "Special" , more so because it has survived ,because the case moulding is not cracked , the plastic cracked after several years - I would say more because subject to sunlight than air-pressure stress. It is in fact 'almost' like the S3 Lightweight oblong plastic model for wings (also used mainly on civvy Optional door mirrors). The PO were funny on marking nickable property , like British Railways. The S3 Lightweight mirror head does NOT have that extra taper to the sides. It would be white for curb crawling & on the wrong side of road ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob042 Posted February 11, 2020 Author Share Posted February 11, 2020 Hi All, For the record my vehicle is Lightweight 19HF27, FFR, build date Dec '79. The correct mirrors for the vehicle as built are MRC8276, see Land rover fiche parts catalogue RTC9968FA, Series III, 88"-1/2 ton Military Vehicle (Air Portable - Lightweight) 12 and 24v, fiche 2 D7. This is the correct item: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Gen-NOS-Land-Rover-Series-2-2a-3-Large-Convex-Door-Wing-Mirror-Head-MRC8276/401776109190 - at one hell of a ridiculous price!!! All I'm after is a couple of good seconds. Yes the tractor mirrors are very very similar but not quite right. Thanks for all the input. Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxy Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 (edited) The eBay photographs - the box is "Land Rover Parts & Equipment" LRPE at earliest 1985 when Unipart lost the Genuine spares supply contract , spares moved to the Caterpillar supply logistics chain warehouse at Desford. Note - original supply to AUSTIN ROVER ITALIA , and what I stated in my previous post about Optional Parts Cat. page for Italy., vendor also states on box - manufactured 06/13/1998. Well - I have just been groping said mirrors in the dark using a torch , just to convince myself of what I already know - that the correct mirror glass is FLAT. I having driven using them for abt. 40 + years I don't think they have any built in optical illusion - no distortion whatsoever. Don't believe microfiche , don't believe the Solihull parts lists . The rear of the shell looks correct for construction (rivet counting - 4) . Although I think they may be marked just Wingard or possibly Britax Wingard too. ----------------------- My view of these mirrors is that - considering L'wt has a single squab(s) position and build of different drivers. In my case I can set them safe for overtaking (even with trailer/caravan, and still set for rear corner of L'wt body. Before noticing them fitted I had used the standard extended front wing but had to fit matching head door kit (uses light pressed bracket) that also had a Halfords "little over-taker wedge mirror secured with double side tape. Also with a ATU or TUAAM box on wing things are getting a little congested. However - they do look a bit clumpy and not quite right although practical for all purpose. I prefer the more dainty standard wing and optional UK civvy door kit mirror , refined still by the very early 1970's round plastic head (that lasts longer) than the orthodox oblong plastic head (the oblong plastic head is now probably unobtanium) , the Britpart plastic round head is very close). The Ebay asking £ price for that head in Italy - I'd rather carve a 'genuine' copy with my front teeth. Edited February 11, 2020 by ruxy spelin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnwardle Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 Are these what you are looking for? I have just found a pair of them in my shed while looking for something else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob042 Posted March 4, 2020 Author Share Posted March 4, 2020 Quote Are these what you are looking for? I have just found a pair of them in my shed while looking for something else. Yes and no, these are RatDyot's rather than Wingard but the two are contemporary, dimensions of mirror heads should be 7" x 5". Is that MOD packaging? would appreciate pic of the box labeling especially date of manufacture if you don't mind. If they are going spare, I'll have them off you. Regards Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob042 Posted March 15, 2020 Author Share Posted March 15, 2020 Well, Thank you all for your input, I am now sorted with a pair of pukka MRC8276 Cheers Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob042 Posted March 27, 2020 Author Share Posted March 27, 2020 Here are the said items, condition is excellent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob042 Posted March 27, 2020 Author Share Posted March 27, 2020 (edited) And one test fitted to my vehicle, I'll get the other done tomorrow and the gaskets fitted which arrived today. Edited March 27, 2020 by Bob042 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeriesMax Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 Sorry to jump on this thread but also looking for a Wingard convex mirror head - MRC8276. I have one already. I see the one on eBay is still available (3yrs later) from Italy but the price is also still ridiculous. Very grateful if anyone can put me in touch or point me in the right direction. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Grundy Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 This mirror also looks like an 'Ashtree', readily available from motor factors at a not a ridiculas amount of money...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mk3iain Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 21 minutes ago, Bob Grundy said: This mirror also looks like an 'Ashtree', readily available from motor factors at a not a ridiculas amount of money...... Here you go an Ashtree mirror as described and MoD issue. It is 7" x 5". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxy Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 PLASTIC & there are others similar - cheap for tractor cabs etc. The Defender style mirror by Ashtree is quite good and a close copy of the original by Britax, there are also copies just as good (IIRC made in Taiwan) sold by the 'aftermarket'. A genuine steel shell type made by Wingard / Britax as used on late model LWT - new or used could be quite expensive £ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mk3iain Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 1 hour ago, ruxy said: PLASTIC & there are others similar - cheap for tractor cabs etc. The Defender style mirror by Ashtree is quite good and a close copy of the original by Britax, there are also copies just as good (IIRC made in Taiwan) sold by the 'aftermarket'. A genuine steel shell type made by Wingard / Britax as used on late model LWT - new or used could be quite expensive £ The ones for sale new are plastic, the MoD issue ones I have from 1998 are steel. I would hope that more are around but all new manufacture seems to be plastic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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