What British Tank is This ?

[XS650]

I'm trying to put a date on an old film on the net and wondered what this tank is and when was it in service?

Film says c.1940

Thanks

[john1950]

Looks like a Valentine. Produced during the war years. Produced with riveted and welded hulls. looks like some Morris Quads limbers and towed artillery pieces further down the line.

Edited December 18, 2019 by john1950

[11th Armoured]

11th Armoured Division, so it's 1941 onwards.

First tank is a Valentine I, I believe - 2-man turret, 2pdr, co-ax Besa & no long-range fuel tank.

Edited December 18, 2019 by 11th Armoured

[XS650]

Thanks most of the trucks have a 39/40 look about them in film but I thought these tanks looked a bit later.

Link to film -

http://www.yorkshirefilmarchive.com/film/mary-princess-royal-countess-harewood-attends-war-days-parade-newcastle

 

[Pzkpfw-e]

The Valentine tank entered service in July 1941.  The small trucks are Morris CS8s, towing 2pdr antitank guns. The 6-wheelers are (I think) Leyland Retrievers, towing 3.7" AA guns.

[john1950]

In the film the tanks are labelled as (Tetarch MkV11 Light tanks). One number seems to be T27619. One of the Morris C8s is Z4467019. I think. Greys monument is still there as is the junction of Pilgrim Street and Market street. They do not seem to have done much research into to the line of vehicles as some of the trucks are labled as Scammells

Edited December 18, 2019 by john1950
addition

[XS650]

Yes I knew they were not Tetrarchs.

There are also some Humber armoured cars and some American 4x2 trucks maybe ex French Contract.

Edited December 18, 2019 by XS650

[Bob Grundy]

Excellent film, this was a big parade..... Description of the film was very poor, even a spelling mistake.

 

[11th Armoured]

The majority of the other vehicles are from 59th (Staffordshire) Infantry Division, by the looks of things.

 

[XS650]

6 hours ago, john1950 said:

In the film the tanks are labelled as (Tetarch MkV11 Light tanks). One number seems to be T27619. One of the Morris C8s is Z4467019. I think. Greys monument is still there as is the junction of Pilgrim Street and Market street. They do not seem to have done much research into to the line of vehicles as some of the trucks are labled as Scammells

Yes I was looking for the Scammells !

So given the vehicle mix anyone hazard a date ? To me there appears to be no vehicle that was made after the Valentine ( July 1941 ) so I would guess late 41 or 42 .

 

Edited December 18, 2019 by XS650

[john1950]

It is worth putting up with the mistakes just to see the film.

[11th Armoured]

1 hour ago, XS650 said:

So given the vehicle mix anyone hazard a date ? To me there appears to be no vehicle that was made after the Valentine ( July 1941 ) so I would guess late 41 or 42 .

 

Apparently 59th (Staffordshire) Infantry Division was transferred to the recently reformed IX Corps in April 1941, but by November 1941 it had been sent to Northern Ireland.

So, given the date the Valentine was introduced, I'd say the parade took place in either August, September or October 1941.

[john1950]

If anyone has access to Herbert Morrisons war diaries that would pin point the date.

[chrisgrove]

No argument about the Valentine tanks, but the softskins are interesting.  I think the truck towing the 3.7AA is a Leyland Terrier - much rarer than the Retriever, and used for towing AA guns (though more often the 3inch) .  The searchlight truck behind it is the special searchlight bodied Retriever - nice to see what the inside looked like.  The 15cwt towing the 2 pounder is the portee version of the CS8 - apparently designed with the French 25mm gun in mind rather than the 2 pounder, but higher than the normal to allow more room to handle the gun.  Humber Mk 1 armoured cars too, earlier in the film

Edited December 19, 2019 by chrisgrove

[XS650]

Yes I am very interested in BEF vehicles and apart from the Valentine's this could be a BEF column.!

Seeing the interior of the artillery and search  light  6x4's is interesting.

 

[john1950]

Are there any Terriers left, and is the only difference the 6 cylinder engine? Have you seen the photos of EME 990 A F.W.D. R6T-AEC 850 Towing a trailer with a Vickers Mk V1 tank on and towing a Bren Carrier behind. Or the Scammell Pioneer tank transporter with a cruiser tank on stuck in a traffic jam in Le Neubourg on the retreat to Dunkirk.

Edited December 21, 2019 by john1950
addition

[XS650]

Yes I have, I have read  that the Scammell  tank transporter was shipped out of France and served in the Western Desert campaign which I find quite remarkable given the panic at the time.

I have put together a little collection of BEF photos on Flickr-

 

 

[john1950]

Great collection of photos. That would have been quite an endevour to get that rig out of France.