white scout car White Scout Car in British use, NWE 1944

[Old Git]

The more I look at this the more convinced I am that this is 4th Canadian Armoured Division mate.\ it might be worth checking in Canadian archives to see if they have a doc on Cannuck mods to the WSC.

[Adrian Barrell]

Those are Royal Artillery markings. Battery Commanders vehicle. 

[Old Git]

Hi Adrian,

thanks for the feedback, we've got the RA insignia on the Passenger side but Packhow and I of differing opinions on the Divisional markings on the Drivers side. It's an oblique angle so difficult to see, Packhow thinks in 43rd Wessex but I'm more inclined to think Canadian 4th Armoured Division. Care to Hazard a guess?

 

[Adrian Barrell]

It's a bit like gazing at clouds or an ink blob test...... I wouldn't have a clue what that formation sign is, it could well be a maple leaf. 

[RAFMT]

Number 43 would be the 2nd Field Regiment RA in an Infantry Division wouldn't it?

So if it is the 43rd Wessex then this would be 112th Field Regiment RA

[61Ferret]

Since selling my Ferret and acquiring a M3A1 Scout Car, I haven't been on this forum for a while but have found my way to this thread via the G503 Forum.  The photo of the Scout Car having a unit sign of 43 was also posted on the M3A1 Facebook page where I posted my thoughts on this.   I’m going to suggest 2^nd Canadian Field Regiment (Artillery) of the 1^st Canadian Infantry Division.  From 1939 to 1943 - Training in the U.K. July 1943 - Sicily.  1943 to January 1945 in Italy.  They were in Holland, post January 1945.  In the Facebook post/thread, I believe that the member here going by the user name of Old Git stated the photo was dated May 1945.  This would also help to support my thoughts on this.   The reason for my suggestion as follows.

• In the photo, the two soldiers in the Scout Car definitely have a cap badge that is in the shape of a Commonwealth Artillery Cap Badge.
• In the photo, on the driver’s right fender, there is a unit sign.  The number 43 over the typical unit sign rectangular base that has a dark coloured top and light coloured bottom.  From https://www.canadiansoldiers.com/vehicles/markings/unitsignsinfantryunits.htm, one of the choices would be 2^nd Canadian Field Regiment (Artillery) with red top and blue bottom back on the unit sign.
• From the photo, on the driver’s left fender, there is a formation sign.  It appears to be a maple leaf over a dark coloured base.  From https://www.canadiansoldiers.com/vehicles/markings/formationsigns.htm, one of the choices would be 1^st Canadian infantry Division.  A gold maple leaf over a red background.
• Research on the internet suggests that red appears darker than blue in black and white photographs. 
• With the dark shade being common to both the unit and division sign and assuming the dark shade being red as per the info I found on the internet, this strongly suggests the photo being of a Scout Car in service with the 2^nd Canadian Field Regiment (Artillery) of the 1^st Canadian Infantry Division in Holland.

If my analysis is correct, this is a nice and rare photograph of the M3A1 Scout Car in Canadian service during WWII.

[Packhow75]

Pretty sure there is someone on the Maple Leaf Up forum at the moment asking for Photos of WSC in Canadian service.

Not you by any chance?

 

Tim

[61Ferret]

1 hour ago, Packhow75 said:

Pretty sure there is someone on the Maple Leaf Up forum at the moment asking for Photos of WSC in Canadian service.

Not you by any chance?

 

Tim

No, not me, but I have seen the post on MLU.  I'm slowly working on making my Scout Car look like one that would have been used by the Governor General's Horse Guard in Italy for Recce/Assault Troop use.  They were issued with British M3A1's that were used in North Africa.  Have built and installed antenna mounts on the back and now working on an interior stand for a 19 wireless set.  Some pics attached from Remembrance Day a few weeks back. 

[Packhow75]

Nice looking vehicle.

I have mine marked to Phantom GHQ liaison Regiment... fitted with the Canadian WS9 radio

Tim

[Old Git]

Superb looking WSC, I especially like the Aerial mount brackets!

 

[armoured_smiler]

On 11/25/2019 at 12:58 PM, RAFMT said:

Number 43 would be the 2nd Field Regiment RA in an Infantry Division wouldn't it?

So if it is the 43rd Wessex then this would be 112th Field Regiment RA

or is it 179th Field Regiment?

[61Ferret]

3 minutes ago, armoured_smiler said:

or is it 179th Field Regiment?

Pretty sure the driver's/vehicle's left fender has a 1st Canadian Divisional sign on it.  Others have suggested the same thing making it a Scout Car serving with the Royal Canadian Artillery.

[lynx42 Rick Cove]

Some images I have gleaned from the web.  Cannot tell when or where they came from as I have had them for a while.  Hope they help as they are official photos of WSC's for Airborne Forces.British.

[Old Git]

I'm guessing you didn't look at page one of this thread before you posted these, otherwise you'd have seen that these have already been posted. In fact I'd hazard a guess that you got them from this thread originally, as the last image is not part of the Airborne configs, but comes from a wartime pamp on standard WS  19 installs, ..... and you uploaded them in the same order you apparently saved them in. 😉

[Old Git]

Another quick question, or request for opinions.

In the drawing shown right above the stowage box between drive and passenger seats appears to have been removed and replaced by the standard battery carrier. Just wondering if anyone knows if they did indeed just remove the stowage box completely or if they only removed the lid and inserted the battery carrier inside.

I know the drawing shows it as completely gone but I find myself wondering if this was just to show the setup rather than 100% accurate to how it was done. Surely the existing storage box would have offered a good receptacle for the batteries if they'd simply removed the lid. Just wondering how they kept rain of the battery boxes? I do know the boxes were made of wood but it seems to be that they at least needed a canvas cover or some sort of protection and the pre-existing stowage box would seem to offer that. Perhaps the difference in dims between stowage box and battery carrier did not allow for it? Anyone got any ideas? 

[Adrian Barrell]

The Scout car front stowage box is quite shallow and I don't  think you could close the lid if it had batteries in it. 

Edited January 4, 2020 by Adrian Barrell

[Old Git]

Thanks for that Adrian, I guess if it was that shallow then it was probably just a lot easier to remove it and replace with the battery carrier. Might be an idea to find out what the actual dims of the box are. Will ask on the FB group.

 

[davdberg]

Adding some more pictures from White Scout cars from the Belgian Brigade. These have the standard British modifications. Anyone aware of the usage of two types of covers?

[Rootes75]

Great photos.

[Old Git]

Not sure what you mean about different covers? Are you referring to the Canvas Tilt which encloses the rear of the WSC? If so it looks like the standard WSC tilt in all three photos.

 

[davdberg]

If you look at the second picture in my previous post you could notice that there's something on top of the canvas tilt. The third picture in the previous post has an opening in the middle at the windshield frame in the canvas.

Looking at different British scout cars, including Belgian ones used; I've notived the canvas opens up in the middle front section of the vehicle. So far I'vnt come across a M3 scout car with a canvas tilt that opens up in the middle front section. Here again it looks like 2 canvas tilts.

Edited April 19, 2021 by davdberg
adding elements

[Old Git]

In all likelihood a unit level modification rather than a mandated alteration at a higher level, especially as it doesn't seem to be part of the standard mods as shown in the earlier pics.

 

[davdberg]

10 hours ago, Old Git said:

In all likelihood a unit level modification rather than a mandated alteration at a higher level, especially as it doesn't seem to be part of the standard mods as shown in the earlier pics.

 

I beg to differ though. I've seen the same on a Prinses Irene Brigade vehicle and on a XXX corps(?) WSC but with the rack addition. They do have 1 thing in common: they're all radio vehicles.

I wonder if a specific canvas was made for the racked versions and these were used for all radio vehicles. Would explain it. 

Edited April 25, 2021 by davdberg

[Old Git]

Those are much better pics than previously. It could well be a radio op vehicle modification as the batteries were between driver and passenger and Radio ops would most likely be right behind. If they ever re-open TNA then you can search on 4 x 4 Scout car as that's what British official records seem to refer to it by. 

Have actually tried searching on TNA Discovery catalogue just now, using various combinations. Only thing that works in White Scout Car but it doesn't throw up much of anything. Might be better to search on canvas tilts for Scout cars etc.

 

Edited April 25, 2021 by Old Git

[Old Git]

Probably all under WO 194 with all the other MVEE papers..., go down the column on the left for various, or likely, topics of interest contained under WO 194

 

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/browse/r/h/C14401