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Another J Type on the way !


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A preliminary verdict has been returned after close examination of the defendant. The crack is about 1 mm deep with a flat bottom and no sign of anything deeper. It is therefore a casting mark and a non crack. (Subject to confirmation by clay dam, once Stan has found his plasticene.)

Good news, and a Merry Christmas to all our readers.

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Nearly done, bar a few finishing touches, it only remains to light the wicks for a grand finale. But first, I need to find some paraffin.

It now only remained to strip out the camshafts and the dismantling was done. Almost immediately I hit a familiar problem which Steve also encountered on the Gosling Thorny. The end of the exhaust cam

Having gathered together sufficient parts to make a start over the last year, I am at last ready to commence the restoration of Thornycroft  J type No. 2393 of 1915. This chassis was recovered from be

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  • 2 weeks later...

Been beavering away on Stan's Garrett wheels but snatched a moment to further clean up the internal passages including inlet and exhaust ports which were all heavily carbonised and had evaded my attentions before. This was a somewhat delicate operation to avoid damage to the newly recut seats and sleeved down valve guides. Could have done with doing this first before engineering happened of course !

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  • 1 month later...

I have had a good break from things Thornycroft, whilst gathering up some paying work, but managed to push on with some chassis fittings yesterday. First job was to re align the steering box which was clearly not vertical. This was soon accomplished by shimming up one of the three mounting points with a mk 1 washer.  I temporarily replaced the inner steering column and the result was pleasing.

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Next on the list were  the angle iron plates for the seat mounting. I had a lucky find of some 2" angle in good order ( Thanks Phil.) and these were clamped up level with the frames and drilled through the original holes, before temporarily bolting up. (Proper 3/8 bolts are on their way.)

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Even a simple job like this has it's problems and in this case the drivers side bracket is fouling the two top holes of an unknown fitting which I dont have. I am guessing it's a pivot for the brake linkage ? and fits inside the chassis. In which case I need to relieve the angle iron to clear the nuts or bolt heads. Any wisdom on this would be much appreciated. 

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Another 'simple' task, was to refit the scuttle brackets that came with the job. These are not J type, but Q type brackets and although basically the same, they do differ slightly and don't have the large opening that J types do. Adding this opening will mean cutting through the Thornycroft lettering ,which I am reluctant to do, so they will hafter doofer now.

One of them lined up perfectly, the other was well out, and considerable filing was needed to elongate one of the holes in the casting. They were eventually brought into line, fitted with their correct wooden spacers and given a coat of Service Colour.

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Edited by Tomo.T
Repeat pic.
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The mystery fitting is now identified, and it turns out to be a support for the transmission brake linkage. This took some finding, as it doesn't appear in any pictures I could find and is even absent from the original parts book !  Eventually I found a pic of the top of it which confirmed it's purpose, and that it bolts to the inside of the chassis.   

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 I therefore created some clearance for the bolt heads of my hypothetical casting and bolted up the angle plates, only to discover that I had misread the dimensions of the angle iron brackets and they are 3 inches too short. So, all in all, somewhat limited progress !

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3 hours ago, Tomo.T said:

.... only to discover that I had misread the dimensions of the angle iron brackets and they are 3 inches too short. So, all in all, somewhat limited progress !

This is the curse of restoration when "flying" somewhat blind.  i.e., without good source-drawings or photos to study. I found when I did my TE, I did many things twice.  And there was no common-cause.  Sometimes poor machining on my part, or the job did not look right; or, as we discovered later, it was to foul some as-not-yet-thought-about part.  My solution, as with all conundrums of this type, lies with Doctor Shepherd & Dr Neame's patent problem-solving elixir - to wit, Masterbrew.

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Hi Tomo.

Yes, we had the same problem!

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However, I made a pattern for the pivot point and also for the brake lever. John has them both at the moment so they are available for you to use. The pivot point casting, I tapped in the back rather than putting the bolts right through as they wouldn't have left room for the nut. Quality of my pattern making I am afraid!

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All went together OK in the end but a real pain to assemble with the seat on!

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Have fun!

Steve  :)

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  • 3 weeks later...

My spare time is at a premium atm., but I made the effort to get another set of angle brackets cut at Phil Honour's. These were duly fitted and it wasn't until I pulled the seat up into position, that I realised another cock up had occured. I had actually managed to produce another set, the same as the first, ie 2 inches short ! Obviously, my memory is no longer reliable, and I need to write this stuff down in future. In the meantime I needed to rescue the situation. One good thing was, I had a plentiful stock of spare metal, which would provide extension pieces.  Unfortunately, as I had already drilled the holes, it would mean extending the brackets both ends. All I needed was a saw and a good welder. 

After lunch,  I have discovered, is a good time to mention things like this to Stan. I also offered to cut and prep all the necessary bits. To cut a long story slightly shorter, Stan performed a perfect job and then ground the surface flush, enabling my embarrassment to be permanently concealed under a few coats of paint.

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Work on the engine has stagnated recently, due, in part to the lack of a suitable engine stand. The current version being of lightweight construction and quite unsuitable for the task in hand.

This has just been partially sorted by Stan, who has rescued this heavy duty trolley base from the scrap man.

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With an impressive max payload of 7 tons it will be more than adequate to support Mr Thornycroft's best efforts.

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One problem is the wheels, which although good and solid are fully swivelling and have no brakes fitted. Maybe simple chocks will suffice ? Any thoughts on this please.

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52 minutes ago, Tomo.T said:

One problem is the wheels, which although good and solid are fully swivelling and have no brakes fitted. Maybe simple chocks will suffice ? Any thoughts on this please.

Drill and tap some bolt holes in the side of the castor to clamp the wheel? 

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I am just about to make something similar.  In the end I concluded castors, while useful for shunting the engine around the shed; make it difficult to get good hard purchase on anything for tightening/un-tightening.   Unless you are using air tools I guess, but I prefer hand tighten everything.

I shall make my movable but only by putting a pallet truck underneath.  Just my thoughts.

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Use a short length of chain placed around two wheels.

This will stop them trying to roll away.

You see this on boat cradles in boatyards.

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A simple set of four screw jacks to lock it in place as required. There are small cheap ones out there for just this, easy to make as well.

Iain

Edited by Mk3iain
Auto-spell, damit
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Thanks for all the input. I like Iain's idea best, and will try and implement this one. A good example of the forum working to provide solutions to a problem.

On 3/23/2020 at 4:25 PM, Mk3iain said:

A simple set of four screw jacks to lock it in place as required. There are small cheap ones out there for just this, easy to make as well.

Iain

Anyone got a source for 4 small winding down Jack wheels ? ( About 3 to 4 inches dia. would be good.)

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The cylinder castings are awaiting engineering to deal with some broken studs. These are mostly awkward little numbers which will have to be drilled out and re tapped. One exhaust stud however was poking out sufficiently to have a go at it .

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A nut was sourced and welded direct to the stud end by Stan. This technique allows a good purchase on the stud end and transmits some local heat to the stud. Once allowed to cool it was encouraged with some 'loosey juice' and Stan applied the spanner of doom !

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Unfortunately not the hoped for result ! We now have another drilling job.

Threads on Thornycrofts of this era are known for tight tolerances. It was actually a company policy and often not ideal when it comes to dismantling after 100 years.

Never mind, a drill it shall be !   I contented myself with another visit to the internal passages, where even more crap was found lurking in corners. However, the rear block is now ready for some valve lapping. Now where did I put those valves.....

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I found when attempting to remove the manifolds that the threads were incredibly tight, but I assisted with some heat. though not near aluminium. There was very small clearance to the castings, too, so a ring spanner could not be used.

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Fixing the seat is an overdue task which I have been attempting to rectify. The front fixings are straight forward enough and once marked up I was able to drill the clearance holes by laying the seat on its back. Once the frame was drilled and set back in place it was a simple matter to mark the holes on the newly extended chassis brackets with a pencil and drill them too. Bolts were duly fitted and thus encouraged I moved to the rear fixings.

There is no frame at the back, so fixing depends upon vertical straps which are attached by coach bolts to the rear wall of the seat and also by studded ends to the chassis brackets. These studded ends were apparently fire welded to the straps, a bit of a lost art, requiring the use of wrought iron which is hard to find today. I made up some suitable bits and Stan made short work of the welding with his trusty TIG . After a simple clean up, we ended up with these.

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With added Bonda.

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It just remains to drill the holes and fit the bolts and that is for another day.

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  • 2 weeks later...
Posted (edited)

Progress on the cylinders has continued sporadically, although every time I delved into the warren of passageways, ever more rust, scale and carbon was found lurking in the deepest recesses. In particular, there was far more carbon than I had realised in the inlet and exhaust ports, the  laborious removal of which has revealed a surprisingly nice smooth surface beneath.

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Finally it was time to lap the valves in and this procedure was accomplished without problems, once we had increased the diameter of the twiddling stick, with a length of suitable rubber hose. TBC.

 

 

 

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Edited by Tomo.T
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Lost most of the text for the above post but the pictures tell the story. Valves all done, followed by caps ( mystery No. turned out to be part no. of same; 8403 )

Cylinder too big for 24" throat on the mill and was eventually tackled on the floor 'Afghan' style, after  search for a  collett chuck proved fruitless.

All broken studs removed successfully by Stan with his trusty hand drill, followed by thread winkling and chasing.

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Posted (edited)

This is a shot of the thread being winkled out of its hole.

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And another of the cleaned up thread.

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Finaly , I couldn't resist a pic of my new set of 18mm long reach plugs from KLG.

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Edited by Tomo.T
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Posted (edited)

I've just had what can only be described, as a bit of a result !

Trolling through the updated online stock of an antiques and militaria dealer, ( Waterloo Militaria ) I was suprised to spot a humble Miller W.D. lamp. On closer inspection I realised I was looking at what had once been a rear lamp.( Something I have been after for a while.)

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The tell tale clear side lenses and single blade connector gave the game away, although the original red lense had long ago been replaced by an ill fitting  and chipped clear one.

Some work would be required and the burner and 'dogbone' badge were clearly missing, the bezel was beyond help and the condition looked poor. I  decided it was worth a punt, and made an offer. This was accepted at 10.30 am yesterday and was on my doorstep at 8.30 am this morning. Very good service. 🏆

 

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Under a layer of rust, the surface was much better than I'd dared to hope.

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Much of the tinning is still present, the only holes found were on the edges of the lamp oil tank, which was partly filled with a strange waxy substance, tentatively identified as old candle wax !

Edited by Tomo.T
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There were clear signs of an original coat of Service Colour,apparently applied straight over the tin plate.

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Also, visible on the inner reflector plate is the patent number, (refering to the rather natty spring catch) followed by an abbreviated date, in this case 1915, which happens to be the year of the truck. (The two sidelights  are 1916 and 1917 respectively.)

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After a thorough clean up, a light coating of of rust converter was brushed on and the day was over.

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I may have a suitable replacement bezel, and an original red bullseye lense. If anyone has a spare curved Miller dogbone badge please shout !

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Also, visible on the inner reflector plate is the patent number, (refering to the rather natty spring catch) followed by an abbreviated date, in this case 1915, which happens to be the year of the truck. (The two sidelights  are 1916 and 1917 respectively.)

 

That date of 1915 may not be a manufacturing date, but a date of lodging the patent.  Nice to see the photos of the lights ready for installation.

Doug

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