attleej Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 Dear All, I have some tales of woe regarding the Meteor M120 engine fitted to the Conqueror ARV. I had concluded that the plugs were fouling with oil due to failure of the inlet valve oil seals which I have discussed in an earlier post. A problem has been to hold the inlet valve closed whilst the springs are compressed. Help from the Forum has been invaluable. It was decided to take the engine out of the hull for reasons of improved engineering hygiene. Once the special tool was made, changing the inlet valve oil seals was straight forward although I am not convinced that they were the problem going by their condition and position. The top of the valve stem only had about 4 thou wobble. The first big problem was that the camshaft was very badly pitted on some of its rubbing surfaces on the cams. This had taken out 17 rockers/ followers. The valve clearances had opened up to 35 thou. Not too much of a problem. I bought two new camshafts and the rockers came from a scrap MkIVB engine. Then I touched one of the cylinder head /block studs. It was loose! Worse still the stud was sheared. Apparently this is a common problem with the Merlins and Meteors. Ok so I needed to lift of the cylinder head block assy. To do this I made an engine turning frame and special lifting tool to lift the block dead square and vertical. I have made a special tool to drill out the sheared stud accurately. So some problems but still manageable. Then I felt the big end bearings. Unfortunately there was 10 thou in and down movement in the big ends and the mains have problems as well. Fortunately the crank looks OK. There does not appear to be any white metal on the shells! The pistons and liners are great as well. Another problem was that the sump was full of a horrible gelatinous gulutinous muck. This was despite having changed the oil some time ago. I started with the simple job of valve oils seals but now have the engine completely in bits! However, we could not keep running the engine with these known faults as it would certainly have led toa total failure in due course. I wonder whether when the oil sump got contaminated with E5 petrol, that allowed the white metal bearings on the crank to be attacked by the ethanol. SOME LESSONS & TIPS FOR CONQ / CENT The oil sumps needs to come out and be cleaned in case it is full of sludge. In service I expect that they would fit a new engine without cleaning the sump. This would only be done at base overhaul. If you take charge of a meteor, take off the rocker covers and check the condition of the cam shaft. It is the first component to start rusting and the consequences are serious. Check that the corner studs are not sheared. Just check the nuts are secure. Unfortunately the Conq is not fitted with an oil pressure gauge. If it had one, surely it would have revealed that all was not well with the bottom end. The good news is that I am confident that I can get the engine back into good condition. It will just be a little bit more involved than I thought! John 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddy8men Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 sorry to hear all has not gone well. i think it's known as mission creep when one job leads to another. good luck with it. i know of two m120 owners that might be persuaded to part with them if you decide life is too short Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Hall Posted September 1, 2018 Share Posted September 1, 2018 Not sure how the fuel pump works on a Meteor but if it’s mechanical it may be worth checking all the seals to make sure that fuel isn’t leaking into the oil. If you get chance, I’d love to see photos of the work in progress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
attleej Posted September 25, 2018 Author Share Posted September 25, 2018 Dear All, I have been diverted onto other tasks but hope to get back onto the Conq engine next week. I will see if I can get the crankshaft and bearings out of the scrap and very seized IVB engine. Rick, All I wanted to do was the inlet valve oil seals! However, it is very interesting work, especially making the necessary special tools. It can take 3 hours to make a tool and then 3 minutes to use it. The engine has got to be put back together with all faults rectified. I could not live with myself if I did not get the job done. My hope is to have it ground running by Christmas. On the other hand if the economics staked up it might enable me to get the Conq running again sooner which would enable me, when at Lyneham, to address matters such as the track slack adjusters. (Why a proper tankie has never taken the mick out of me on that account I know not!). Could you PM me further details! Chris, The original fuel injection pump was mechanical and it would indeed have been the seals that let the fuel into the engine oil sump. With hindsight, it might have been easier to develop the necessary special tools and test equipment to overhaul the pump. However, the modern electronic fuel injection system has such huge advantages that I have persisted with it. Particular advantages are starting, cold running and fuel efficiency. Unfortunately, I cannot download the pics from my camera because I have lost the USB lead and my new laptop won't take the SD card. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym Posted September 25, 2018 Share Posted September 25, 2018 Don't panic about the USB lead, eBay is overrun with them! Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PanzerJohn Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 Regarding petrol, Esso Synergy Supreme Plus doesn't have any ethanol in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radiomike7 Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 2 hours ago, PanzerJohn said: Regarding petrol, Esso Synergy Supreme Plus doesn't have any ethanol in it. Not entirely true, the following is from the Esso site: Esso super unleaded petrol (Synergy Supreme+ Unleaded 97) is ethanol free (except in Devon, Cornwall, the Teesside area and Scotland). We would therefore advise anyone who has concerns about the presence of ethanol in petrol to use Synergy Supreme+ – providing they do not fill up in Devon or Cornwall, the Teesside area or Scotland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enigma Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 On 10/3/2018 at 10:29 PM, radiomike7 said: Not entirely true, the following is from the Esso site: Esso super unleaded petrol (Synergy Supreme+ Unleaded 97) is ethanol free (except in Devon, Cornwall, the Teesside area and Scotland). We would therefore advise anyone who has concerns about the presence of ethanol in petrol to use Synergy Supreme+ – providing they do not fill up in Devon or Cornwall, the Teesside area or Scotland. Why would some shires have ethanol and others not? Isn't England a country instead of a United Staes of England with different laws like the US of A? I don't mean this in a political way, just confused. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PanzerJohn Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 Maybe those area's are supplied from refineries that only produce ethanol polluted petrol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon_M Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Enigma said: Why would some shires have ethanol and others not? Isn't England a country instead of a United Staes of England with different laws like the US of A? I don't mean this in a political way, just confused. It's refinery practice. I'd guess Esso doesn't actually own the refineries supplying those areas ( or any areas...) but just sub-contracts the production. Scotland would be supplied by ( Ineos? ) at Grangemouth, Teesside by Billingham, and Devon & Cornwall by someone down there. The refinery owners have decided that their majority customers will put up with Ethanol so it is in there. EDIT - later - Billingham / Teesside is now just storage and distribution, so I'd guess it was distributing fuel refined by Grangemouth and moved by pipeline. Questions for the house then, what refinery supplies Devon & Cornwall area, who owns it? Edited October 15, 2018 by Gordon_M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radiomike7 Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 These are the choices: Essar Stanlow Refinery Situated south of the Mersey estuary near Ellesmere Port, refining at Stanlow dates back to 1924. ExxonMobil Refinery Fawley Situated on the west shore of Southampton Water, Fawley is the largest refinery in the UK, with refining activity on the site dating back to 1921. PetroIneos Grangemouth Refinery Situated close to the Firth of Forth, Grangemouth traces its origins back to 1924 and up until the Second World War it handled about 400,000 tonnes of oil. Phillips 66 Humber Refinery Situated on the Humber Estuary at South Killingholme, the refinery came into operation in 1969 with a capacity of about 3 million tonnes. Total Lindsey Oil Refinery Situated close to the south bank of the Humber Estuary in North Lincolnshire, Lindsey Oil Refinery, originally a 50/50 joint venture between Fina and Total, is now owned by Total. Valero Pembroke Refinery Pembroke Refinery is situated on the Pembroke coast and came on stream in 1964 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon_M Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 Fawley, then? Apologies for off-topic drift. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdmcm Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 Any chance you could post a picture or two of the Conqueror ARV? would love to see it Regards John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoseman Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 On 10/15/2018 at 10:36 PM, radiomike7 said: These are the choices: Essar Stanlow Refinery Situated south of the Mersey estuary near Ellesmere Port, refining at Stanlow dates back to 1924. ExxonMobil Refinery Fawley Situated on the west shore of Southampton Water, Fawley is the largest refinery in the UK, with refining activity on the site dating back to 1921. PetroIneos Grangemouth Refinery Situated close to the Firth of Forth, Grangemouth traces its origins back to 1924 and up until the Second World War it handled about 400,000 tonnes of oil. Phillips 66 Humber Refinery Situated on the Humber Estuary at South Killingholme, the refinery came into operation in 1969 with a capacity of about 3 million tonnes. Total Lindsey Oil Refinery Situated close to the south bank of the Humber Estuary in North Lincolnshire, Lindsey Oil Refinery, originally a 50/50 joint venture between Fina and Total, is now owned by Total. Valero Pembroke Refinery Pembroke Refinery is situated on the Pembroke coast and came on stream in 1964 Essar is the old Shell Stanlow Refinery, spent half my life in there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
attleej Posted October 30, 2018 Author Share Posted October 30, 2018 Dear All, Here are some photos of the Conqueror ARV: These were running around Slab Common a few years ago This was doing work on the rear spade at Bordon in the museum. The frame in front is the Antar's winch / fifth wheel sub-frame, This was testing the winch. I have never seen a photo of a Conqueror's spade embedded into the ground. This arrangement will resist a pull of 135 tons. This is the engine when I thought that all I had to do was replace some inlet valve oil seals. This shows rust damage due to not running the engine. This is a look into the ECU box that controls the electronic fuel injection. It controls 24 Rover V8 injectors. There have been several iterations of this ECU. This is the rig for lifting the cylinder block off the pistons and crank case. The long studs attached to the cylinder head ensure that the block is lifted up square. The engine is rotated and fixed 30 degrees from horizontal to allow for a vertical lift. When I found that the crank had to come out I then had to make a rig to rotate the engine 360 degrees. LOL. Nearly off! Two of the end, or corner, studs were broken off. The plan is to drill and tap the remains of the stud. The drill jig is ensuring that the stud is drilled absolutely central and vertical. I now have to strip down a scrap IVB to get a better bottom end. Unfortunately I will not be able to start this work until December. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarland Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 On 10/16/2018 at 7:49 AM, Gordon_M said: Fawley, then? Apologies for off-topic drift. Pipeline Network The south west isn't served by a liquids line on the above map - the red lines are gas pipelines Not sure if there is a specific Terminal or refinery for the South West - logically it would be Fawley being the nearest 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarland Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 Getting back on topic - great photos of the Conquerer A question for the Forum in general - Were the Conquerer and Centurion ARV's designs on the drawing board at the same time? The earth anchor on both vehicles remind me of the anchor arrangement on the Bergepanther. Did Chertsey/FVRDE "borrow" the concept? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddy8men Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 great work, hope all goes well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wally dugan Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 In reply to wether the BERGEPANTHER was used for ideas for the CONQUEROR ARV what i can tell you is that two CONQUERORS 41 BA 15 and 41 BA 16 were at FVRDE at the same time period as the BERGEPANTHER 41 BA 16 is the one stripped and engine been removed it later was disposed of and went to pounds then to the USA 41 BA 15 was disposed of 18/08/59 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PanzerJohn Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 Is BA16 the one that ended up in the Littlefield Collection?. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRSCRS Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 On 10/30/2018 at 7:35 PM, attleej said: Dear All, Here are some photos of the Conqueror ARV: These were running around Slab Common a few years ago This was doing work on the rear spade at Bordon in the museum. The frame in front is the Antar's winch / fifth wheel sub-frame, This was testing the winch. I have never seen a photo of a Conqueror's spade embedded into the ground. This arrangement will resist a pull of 135 tons. This is the engine when I thought that all I had to do was replace some inlet valve oil seals. This shows rust damage due to not running the engine. This is a look into the ECU box that controls the electronic fuel injection. It controls 24 Rover V8 injectors. There have been several iterations of this ECU. This is the rig for lifting the cylinder block off the pistons and crank case. The long studs attached to the cylinder head ensure that the block is lifted up square. The engine is rotated and fixed 30 degrees from horizontal to allow for a vertical lift. When I found that the crank had to come out I then had to make a rig to rotate the engine 360 degrees. LOL. Nearly off! Two of the end, or corner, studs were broken off. The plan is to drill and tap the remains of the stud. The drill jig is ensuring that the stud is drilled absolutely central and vertical. I now have to strip down a scrap IVB to get a better bottom end. Unfortunately I will not be able to start this work until December. Never realised the M120 had more oval exhaust ports John, is there a huge difference in power out put between the above and a standard 4B meteor ? Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddy8men Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 it has another 200hp 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
attleej Posted November 5, 2018 Author Share Posted November 5, 2018 The EMER for the Gun tank say 810 BHP at 2800 RPM and 1580 FtLbs torque at 2000 RPM. It is interesting that a Meteor has quite a lot of grunt at idling. The Conqueror ARV will neutral steer with the engine idling. The REME museum's Cent ARV has rubber pads on track and so will generally require a touch of throttle to neutral on tarmac. The cylinder heads on the M120 and the Meteorite are very different from a IVB with its more direct Merlin ancestry. As for he exhaust ports, they are different but I have no idea if they are better or not. John 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
attleej Posted October 6, 2019 Author Share Posted October 6, 2019 Dear All, I have made some progress on the Meteor M120 engine. I have now managed to remove the two broken cylinder studs. You cannot believe how tough the steel was. I wore out a 1/2" UNF HSSE Cobalt tap after tapping just two studs! The separate post on this subject is just to allow anyone to easily research the topic. The 'plastigauge' test shows that the main bearing clearances are within spec. After having made a jig to machine two big end shell bearings we now have a complete set of big end bearings. The last real challenge is the gudgeon pin bushes that are fully floating. The bushes are 10 thou worn out and, worse still, I have just discovered that the little end bore in the con rod has 5 thou ovality when the spec is for only 1 thou. Making the new oversize gudgeon pin bushes is easy enough. The problem is finding someone to grind the little end bore reliably and economically as I don't think my rebore shop can do that work. I will check on Monday. Does anyone know anyone who can grind con rods near to Portsmouth, Hants? John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
attleej Posted June 8, 2022 Author Share Posted June 8, 2022 Dear All, I am pleased to say that after over three years of effort by many and not just me, the REME Museum's Conqueror ARV is now running properly with electronic fuel injection (EFI) and after a complete strip down of the Meteor M120 engine. The ignition is by the Attlee discombobulator system that replaces the magneto. The final piece of the puzzle was to fit two Bosch type 044 pumps to deliver enough fuel so that the fuel pressure does not drop away when opening the engine up. The EFI means that it starts reliably and consistently. If it does not start after about four revolutions, it is not going to start at all. There is nothing in between. It is more economic than the Cent ARV which runs too rich.. Yesterday we took the tank out of the hanger to give it a test. It was pulling very well and occasionally I got that lovely whiff of fully burnt petrol. Heaven! That same smell you get with a petrol Rover when it is very hot and on a long run. Last year the Conqueror dragged a Chieftain with both tracks locked and that was with the engine NOT running well. We now need to: 1. Refit the Jaguar 'J60' winch engine and associated controls and systems in order that the recovery equipment will work, and, 2. Replace the track adjustment system so that we can tighten the tracks correctly. Many thanks to: TSB, Mark D, Andy A, Adrian F, John D, Roger Jones RIP, Wayne, Vic C and Barney. John 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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