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1911 Dennis Fire Engine 3035


mammoth

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The hubs came off the axle as described, the nut being quite loose (should it be tight or not?) and showing the bearing sleave with no wear - a nice find. No linings on the brake shoes.790706224_Jhubdismantle007.thumb.JPG.1ff38f309edd6f426e2a7874286d6f90.JPG

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I was minded to follow the suggestion to mount the job on a lathe and remove the weld with a parting tool. The wheel was too big for the gap so it was out with the angle grinder.

1174187242_Jhubdismantle005.thumb.JPG.a49a4332c10fa96d77f115de69b262c7.JPG

Time for a DSG pause (1609 X 72); which will be rather long since the power company want me to subscribe to their early retirement fund for connecting 3 phase and as I reckon my retirement is more important  I will opt to purchase a generator.1879660900_Jhubdismantle008.thumb.JPG.db1cd38a303948a126258ff1e3450caf.JPG

 

 

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Removal of the spoke bolts was slowed by nuts that had been welded to the hub, otherwise easy. 1278069923_Jhubdismantle011.thumb.JPG.483dbea0538317c190f16c65ac42857c.JPG

14 spokes with the bolts going between the spokes, not through them and shiney steel on the hub!

The two parts of the hub were an easy press to part,474064233_Jhubdismantle012.thumb.JPG.5192eb7f3becafddceaf62ead78b15a2.JPG1276170513_Jhubdismantle014.thumb.JPG.7b96ca497b731132a70dce7d52993c4e.JPG

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Quote

The hubs came off the axle as described, the nut being quite loose (should it be tight or not?)

No, the nut should be set to give bearing clearance between the hub and a thrust-washer on the axle and then locked in place with a split-pin. 

You might not still have the thrust washer, or it might be friction-welded to the hub or the axle by now. I have once had to grind one off (On an N-type in Tunbridge Wells, I think, or it might have been the one in Thaxted) 

Quote

and showing the bearing sleave with no wear - a nice find. No linings on the brake shoes

The brakes were originally iron-on-iron, any linings are retrofitted. Some owners are still using iron-on-iron and report that the brakes work at least as poorly as the lined ones. 

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Nice lathe. Longer in the bed than mine. I don't have the swarf tray (will have to make one in due course) but do have the floor mounted suds tray. 

But very fortunate here in that we're already connected to a three phase supply. 

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7 hours ago, mammoth said:

I will opt to purchase a generator.

A VFD might be more convenient, and quieter. Though could be tricky if the motor is pole-switching or Dahlander and not re-wirable for 240V operation. 

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6 hours ago, andypugh said:

A VFD might be more convenient, and quieter. 

Andy, it is probably a 15 horse motor, so a VFD at that rating would be very expensive. Anyway, I believe that Australia is a big place, so you wouldn’t hear the noise of a generator...

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Posted (edited)

I do have a phase converter to run smaller machines off 15amp supply, and although our rural domestic supply is supposed to be 60 amps at 240v there is a 600m run from the supply transformer. Turning the wick up on the welder results in diminishing returns telling me that voltage drop is going to be an issue driving a big motor. Shame is that a 3 phase supply is available literally across the road. A few years down the track batteries might become much cheaper at which time going stand alone solar will be very tempting.

Thrust washer is there, just not shown. There is a gap for a felt seal, same as just shown on Ed1617's WDJ Thornycroft.

One swarf tray is missing on my DSG so I will have to make one as well. Suds drain into a trough sitting on the floor at the rear.

Edited by mammoth
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Posted (edited)

If going down the generator route bear in mind you may need a larger amp rating than the full load amps due to the starting current which you should be able to calculate from the motor characteristics. 

Edited by radiomike7
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49 minutes ago, radiomike7 said:

If going down the generator route bear in mind you may need a larger amp rating than the full load amps due to the starting current which you should be able to calculate from the motor characteristics. 

Thinking about it, running an engine to drive a generator to drive a motor is silly. It makes far more sense to convert the lathe to run from line-shafting driven directly by the engine. And, to be green, the engine should be multi-fuel, maybe external-combustion.  🙂

Yes, a steam engine and big whippy flat-belts is definitely the right approach here. 

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Just go 3 phase.

Yes it will cost but will be worth it over the years with less problems and you can then use any 3 phase equipment you want.

I'm in Sydney also and 3 phase may cost up front but you will be way ahead over the years.

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  • 2 months later...
Posted (edited)

The corrected title of this thread gave the game away that there was some confusion about the appliance's identity, firstly because of entries on the Dennis invoice and secondly because of non matching entries on NSW Fire Brigade (NSWFB) surviving records.

Frank Cerutti of Townsville has a very nice 1917 delivered Dennis N model and way back he visited Surrey and got copies of the Dennis chassis lists. With these in hand a perusal of records at the Museum of Fire give a good demonstration of the fallibility of handwriting, and especially so with the numbers '3' and '5', as well as the trap of being led astray by wonky primary sources (the invoice).

The upshot is that I can now definitely say that the two appliances (or 'cars' as Dennis called them) delivered to NSWFB in January 1912 were 3033 (mine) and 3035.

NSWFB records state the second appliance was 3055 whereas in reality that appliance had a different engine and went to Great Western Railway, and not to Australia.

Accordingly the NSWFB record of 3035 should read 3033 and the NSWFB record of 3055  should read 3035, in which case all the records of engine and body numbers align in both sets of records.

Phew.

Edited by mammoth
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