Towing when under SORN

[ruxy]

5 hours ago, mtskull said:

 Be all that as it may and whatever actually proves to be definitive, don't forget that it will be the police and/or the DVLA who decide whether to prosecute you if you get caught, so best to go with their advice unless you want to be the person who actually tests this in a court of law. Even if decided in your favour, the cost of hiring a flatbed would seem like small change compared to a court case....

I'm with "MatchFuzee" on this one.

I once forgot to  re-SORN a vehicle I had taken off insurance and off public highway.  They suggested I pay a fine that was abt.  £80  , not exactly a fine because it seemed that I would have to voluntary pay it, apart from that they were not a court themselves.  So - I replied that I would see them in civil or a criminal court and am still awaiting a summons.  I can't ever recall reading about any such prosecution , of course for years people were suggesting a continuous SORN procedure that now exists.  SORN vehicle - all wheels on public highway , I don't know of any court case / case law.  Using a dolly - then that is a appliance (or is the term - impliment , ref. the Regs.) and the vehicle would be a trailer.

Edited March 7, 2018 by ruxy
spelin,amd.

[ruxy]

39 minutes ago, john1950 said:

It is prudent to eire on the side of caution.

If the Regulations , made under a enabling act of parliament were in plain English - no problem.   However , such as the DfT have been issuing 'Guidance' notes for such as A Frame towing and Dolly towing for years.  At one time ISTR they actualy stated their specialist contact name(s) , this was dropped - they did not like to be consulted.  I see the latest 'A' frame & Dolly  guidance is not even dated !      That is not good for a supposed gov. body when you are trying to maintain a file on them..

[Surveyor]

On ‎05‎/‎03‎/‎2018 at 4:01 PM, john1950 said:

All the bits are liftable and not really heavy, the sun will come out at some stage. If it was a conrod there would probably be a hole in the block. If it is a big end problem it more than likely would not turn, so if you are not in a hurry to repair it be curious.

There is no hole in the block, the camshaft does turn, I understand 4 turns then stops, also it is "compressing" if that's the right term, was hoping to get the thing working for Knockhill servicemen's day in April, that's gone by the board 

[john1950]

I know you want to keep it authentic, but a motor replacement may be the easiest quickest cheapest option. Then you can investigate the original engine at your leasure. Until you get the can of worms open you do not know what the repair is going to cost. Just a point there is a take out on ebay at the minute that is under £100.

Edited March 7, 2018 by john1950
addition

[ruxy]

1 hour ago, Surveyor said:

There is no hole in the block, the camshaft does turn, I understand 4 turns then stops, also it is "compressing" if that's the right term, was hoping to get the thing working for Knockhill servicemen's day in April, that's gone by the board 

Is there a evacuator for the brakes ,  looks a bit like a dizzy and bolted in the dizzy hole (if it were petrol)  -  if so the cam also drives the evacuator , just wondering if there has been a pile up there , it also drives the oil-pump , I doubt if there is a pump problem but there could be on the drive gear at the cam.

[mogmaner]

The fact that you can turn the engine over 4 times before it locks hint at injector pump ,this is run at a 4 to 1 ratio from the CRANK.

[Surveyor]

2 hours ago, john1950 said:

I know you want to keep it authentic, but a motor replacement may be the easiest quickest cheapest option. Then you can investigate the original engine at your leasure. Until you get the can of worms open you do not know what the repair is going to cost. Just a point there is a take out on ebay at the minute that is under £100.

The trouble is the Army only upgraded about 1200 of these, 110, Defender 90 and 110, the engine has two alternators, one for the engine and one fr the radio kit so loathed to replace the engine. So a bit loathed to replace the engine

[john1950]

Alternators and brackets will swap.

[ruxy]

Surveyor  -  puzzeled / intrigued by this engine failure.  When the strip results are known - it will be interesting to look back in retrospect.  Are you able to give a little more info. of situation ,  you were just cruising along on a good highway,  - must have been some form of hesitation just prior , can you give further clues + time / distance involved  ?    Nonrmal  noise from under-bonnet  - then what  ?    I am aware a mental panic can take over  and wash out from memory.

[john1950]

Cam followers do give trouble breaking with varying degrees of damage to the block, also the hot spots in the head come out and do damage. Four turns before locking up is food for thought.

[Surveyor]

33 minutes ago, john1950 said:

Cam followers do give trouble breaking with varying degrees of damage to the block, also the hot spots in the head come out and do damage. Four turns before locking up is food for thought.

 

1 hour ago, ruxy said:

Surveyor  -  puzzeled / intrigued by this engine failure.  When the strip results are known - it will be interesting to look back in retrospect.  Are you able to give a little more info. of situation ,  you were just cruising along on a good highway,  - must have been some form of hesitation just prior , can you give further clues + time / distance involved  ?    Nonrmal  noise from under-bonnet  - then what  ?    I am aware a mental panic can take over  and wash out from memory.

There was a clicking noise which last about 3 minutes drove a further 5 miles before the engine started to brake the vehicle, I'm also intrigued

[ruxy]

;'Clicking'   -  out of the possibilities , that to me sounds more like a actual bronze tappet breaking up  (that it would do if the roller had smashed) ,  this event could have then smashed the actual cast iron tappet-guide bush with running on rather than switching off a.s.a.p.   If your luck is in damage could be restricted to these 3 components and probably the cam lobe will be damaged - so a new cam too.    A full tappet assembly good quality is very cheap ,  a genuine camshaft has always been very expensive ,  copies are quite cheap.  Genuine cams are very good obviously , The only difference of note over a better copy is the lobe sharp edges are just to say linished off and then polished.   To me this scenario is the most likely to allow 4 turns but not a full cycle.   Light laden engine  , in those 3 min. you would never notice the power drop off until it would run no longer in a instant.

[Surveyor]

1 hour ago, ruxy said:

;'Clicking'   -  out of the possibilities , that to me sounds more like a actual bronze tappet breaking up  (that it would do if the roller had smashed) ,  this event could have then smashed the actual cast iron tappet-guide bush with running on rather than switching off a.s.a.p.   If your luck is in damage could be restricted to these 3 components and probably the cam lobe will be damaged - so a new cam too.    A full tappet assembly good quality is very cheap ,  a genuine camshaft has always been very expensive ,  copies are quite cheap.  Genuine cams are very good obviously , The only difference of note over a better copy is the lobe sharp edges are just to say linished off and then polished.   To me this scenario is the most likely to allow 4 turns but not a full cycle.   Light laden engine  , in those 3 min. you would never notice the power drop off until it would run no longer in a instant.

Many thanks, will have a chat with my mechanic Jim, as i am learning is this a job for a garage or on a drive 

[ruxy]

Camshaft  &   tappet assy.   if it is restricted to damage in that area - no problem with repairs on the drive. If it were piston(s)  & bores  are OK - then I just use a Nicro hone - looks like a bog-brish with abrasive balls (Snap-on & others sell them now -  from abt. 30 years ago  Perkins & other engine plants were using them)  apparently best for breaking rings in & sort it out on drive (no room in garage(s) LoL  .   Taking a short cut without complete strip and proper clean is always a risk ,  check sump clean oil - drive around the block , drain oil to see if any small broken bits , remove sump again -  I got away with it when I had a damaged cam . smashed tappet assy. & a ;S; shaped push-rod.

[john1950]

Just take the three dome nuts off the rocker cover, give it a bump with your hand or a soft mallet lift it off and you will be able to see a bent push rod, or if all the rockers are working as they should when you rotate the crankshaft, the problem is elswhere. 

[Surveyor]

14 hours ago, john1950 said:

Just take the three dome nuts off the rocker cover, give it a bump with your hand or a soft mallet lift it off and you will be able to see a bent push rod, or if all the rockers are working as they should when you rotate the crankshaft, the problem is elswhere. 

I think the problem is else where the cover was taken off and all push rods were okay apparently

[Surveyor]

14 hours ago, ruxy said:

Camshaft  &   tappet assy.   if it is restricted to damage in that area - no problem with repairs on the drive. If it were piston(s)  & bores  are OK - then I just use a Nicro hone - looks like a bog-brish with abrasive balls (Snap-on & others sell them now -  from abt. 30 years ago  Perkins & other engine plants were using them)  apparently best for breaking rings in & sort it out on drive (no room in garage(s) LoL  .   Taking a short cut without complete strip and proper clean is always a risk ,  check sump clean oil - drive around the block , drain oil to see if any small broken bits , remove sump again -  I got away with it when I had a damaged cam . smashed tappet assy. & a ;S; shaped push-rod.

Many thanks for this will as Jim when I see him

[john1950]

If the push rods were O.K. that probably rules out cam follower. One step forward.

[ruxy]

The fact that you can turn 4 times but not complete the full cyle indicates to me there is no problem at the bottom end or pistons.  I discount a fuel-pump problem (I think it would strip /snap cog-belt).  Being able to bar over just short of the complete 4-stroke cycle , then a brick wall -  that indicates to me a problem on the valve gear for just a single cylinder, if the push rods turn as they should  - then the tappet should be OK .  Of course it could be something far more sinister like a huge chunk of piston skirt unable to fall clear into the sump. On the basis of BIG racket = BIG  £  expensive problem , the noise you describe is not so bad ,  thinking of two failures where I was determined to get home on reduced power , very reduced.  One a valve head had more or less dropped off , the other as a valve hard seat had come loose in a alloy head.   Over 100 miles in first case & 200 miles in second case that I kept the engine running.  After those two experiences - I have held a belief that a mechanical failure is not so bad, that is as long as the engine will cycle.

[Surveyor]

1 hour ago, ruxy said:

The fact that you can turn 4 times but not complete the full cyle indicates to me there is no problem at the bottom end or pistons.  I discount a fuel-pump problem (I think it would strip /snap cog-belt).  Being able to bar over just short of the complete 4-stroke cycle , then a brick wall -  that indicates to me a problem on the valve gear for just a single cylinder, if the push rods turn as they should  - then the tappet should be OK .  Of course it could be something far more sinister like a huge chunk of piston skirt unable to fall clear into the sump. On the basis of BIG racket = BIG  £  expensive problem , the noise you describe is not so bad ,  thinking of two failures where I was determined to get home on reduced power , very reduced.  One a valve head had more or less dropped off , the other as a valve hard seat had come loose in a alloy head.   Over 100 miles in first case & 200 miles in second case that I kept the engine running.  After those two experiences - I have held a belief that a mechanical failure is not so bad, that is as long as the engine will cycle.

It was quite so agree, had a VW Polo, tining belt jumper three teeth grinding was an understaement

[Surveyor]

4 hours ago, john1950 said:

If the push rods were O.K. that probably rules out cam follower. One step forward.

Any help for this mechanical idiot is gratefully recieved

[john1950]

Remove drive belts from Ancileries just to rule out a problem with them. Does the engine turn with the clutch depressed? I presume 4 turns is the Crankshaft, that would be 2 full turns for the camshaft and fuel pump as they run at 1/2 crankshaft revolutions

Edited March 9, 2018 by john1950
addition

[Surveyor]

On ‎09‎/‎03‎/‎2018 at 3:31 PM, john1950 said:

Remove drive belts from Ancileries just to rule out a problem with them. Does the engine turn with the clutch depressed? I presume 4 turns is the Crankshaft, that would be 2 full turns for the camshaft and fuel pump as they run at 1/2 crankshaft revolutions

Errrrr, I am sorry cant answer, the breakdown and recovery crew think it might be the oil pump that failed to give the enging freezing

[john1950]

Oil pump failure is uncommon, If it ran without oil feed to the bearings it would stop thud fairy quickly. 

[ruxy]

http://www.paddockspares.com/erc6105-oil-pump-drive-assy.html

As I speculated 2/3 days ago =  the oil pump drive ERC6105 packing up is a possibility ,  however - I would agree with  john 1950  (he seems my age)   a actual oil pump failure would be ever so rare , I have not known one totally fail and I have been spannering Rovers for almost 50 years.  I have known a pump on a S2A diesel that was worn out LoL , the history of that was - it was a 109"  Station Wagen co-operative of a local WMC&I used for several years that I knew of by the during the Blackpool Illuminations excursions (every weekend) , needless to say it never ever had a oil  + filter change.  In fact they more or less paid me to remove it from the premises.  The best thingie I got was the Lucas pre-engaged starter and being a silly boy I swopped it with a farmer for a petrol 2M100 type.

 

 

Edited March 10, 2018 by ruxy
spelin