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New to HMVF - Simca Marmon SUMB - New Owner


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As part of the Fort Paull auction in June (museum closing) there should be two sumbs up for sale. They were mine I gave them to the museum in exchange for a knackered exhibit I was after. One was in very good nick, I had addressed all the rust and it ran sweetly with crisp brakes. The other was not very good, but I sprayed up so looked presentable.. I put the v8 from the knackered one on a stand as an exhibit for them.. 

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I have never found a serial number to year database. There was a breakdown of production by year in an issue of "Charge Utile" magazine - It was a 3 part article starting in No. 110 - they do turn up sometimes on E-Bay and I think the production breakdown was in the 2nd part. If I find my copy I will post the page here.

Unfortunately the production (or at least French Army orders which is what it actually listed) only add up to just over 10,000 and the serials of the three I owned at various times were all in the 14,000-17,000 range. So whether they started from a number larger than 1 or used the same series for other vehicles besides the SUMB I dont know. If they did start above 1 it would be useful to know where they started.

From memory of the article the vast majority were built in 1964 through 1966 with only hundreds before 1963 - presumably trials) and a few hundred a year after 1967 through to around 1970. 

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1 hour ago, g0ozs said:

I have never found a serial number to year database. There was a breakdown of production by year in an issue of "Charge Utile" magazine - It was a 3 part article starting in No. 110 - they do turn up sometimes on E-Bay and I think the production breakdown was in the 2nd part. If I find my copy I will post the page here.

Unfortunately the production (or at least French Army orders which is what it actually listed) only add up to just over 10,000 and the serials of the three I owned at various times were all in the 14,000-17,000 range. So whether they started from a number larger than 1 or used the same series for other vehicles besides the SUMB I dont know. If they did start above 1 it would be useful to know where they started.

From memory of the article the vast majority were built in 1964 through 1966 with only hundreds before 1963 - presumably trials) and a few hundred a year after 1967 through to around 1970. 

Hi Ian, thanks for yr reply.

Did you get yrs UK registered??

Any tips on dating certificate and age relating?

My number us 07774416640 and I'm on WhatsApp or email ndavicus@aol.com 

A picture from those magazines would be very much appreciated.

Rob.

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Rob my 3 were all registered on arrival in the UK by the importing dealer, years before I had them. So I haven't had to attempt the process from first principles - and they were registered as 1959 manufacture,  PLG, 4 wheel pickup, 4500cc, 3475KG GVW, 2 seats.  I think things have changed since they were imported circa 1995-2005 (I bought my first in 2009 and it had been in the UK for around ten years by then) so more expert advice is called for. It may actually be better to treat it as a private HGV so as not to have to stay under 3500KG which is possible but tight.  

I did take some precautions although they were 1959 dated on the V5 so could in theory claim MOT exemption when I had them  but because most were made later I always got a Class 7 MOT to be safe - they are (just) under 3500KG unladen in practice so at least back then  could be used and MoTd  as a pre-1960 vehicle which simplified things.  

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I know of a field in France that has over 160 of these. Simca Marmon V8's

If anyone needs spares contact me and I can send pictures and arrange shipping. French farmers buy a couple and restore them, and use them for log deliveries. Basically a French Unimog.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1uvJ1_OGIQ5GIBfG47vPDZHjgqovWN9SG/view?usp=sharing

 

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That's very interesting! I bought a second rotten truck recently to share with a friend for drivetrain spares, but am definitely interested in a source of parts. Could you share the location/name  of the site? We're planning to drive down to the South next May to watch the European Truck Trials,  so would be interesting to stop off on the way and have a look

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On 12/3/2020 at 5:25 PM, Simon James said:

I know of a field in France that has over 160 of these. Simca Marmon V8's

If anyone needs spares contact me and I can send pictures and arrange shipping. French farmers buy a couple and restore them, and use them for log deliveries. Basically a French Unimog.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1uvJ1_OGIQ5GIBfG47vPDZHjgqovWN9SG/view?usp=sharing

 

Hi Simon. I’m looking for a Marmon engine. If you can point me in the right direction, that would be great, thanks.

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Hi again,

I'm attempting to stiffen up the ride of my SUMB as it's a bit to bouncey for road use I'm replacing the suspension bushings as the rubber has perished. Also going to replace the oil in the damper any one know what type of oil is in there can I replace it with thicker type to improve it? cheers 

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15 hours ago, Swaffer said:

Hi again,

I'm attempting to stiffen up the ride of my SUMB as it's a bit to bouncey for road use I'm replacing the suspension bushings as the rubber has perished. Also going to replace the oil in the damper any one know what type of oil is in there can I replace it with thicker type to improve it? cheers 

Very interested to follow this! Panhard rod bushes are perished but I haven't found a direct replacement yet. 

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On 2/26/2021 at 10:14 PM, Swaffer said:

I also cant find a direct replacement so I am attempting to cast my own with two part polyurethane. Thinking about 30w motor bike shock oil? To improve the dampers.

That's interesting! I find a company overseas that specialises in re-casting metallastic bushes but have contacted them. 

Have you found a specific compound/kit?

There are various threads on Driftworks, Grassrootsmotorsports etc

 

The maintenance manual MAT4155 lists the shock absorber oil as AR 3520 or  OM-15 (equivalent to OM-18).

As an example,  Nyco list the following info for their FH 51: 

Kinematic viscosity:

@100°C: 5.39 mm2/s

@40°C: 14.12 mm2/s

 

By comparison Redline Heavyweight 30WT Suspension Fluid is listed as:

@100°C: 22.8 mm2/s

@40°C: 67.9 mm2/s

 

Their Medium 10WT is listed as:

@100°C: 17.7 mm2/s

@40°C: 32.0 mm2/s

 

Lightweight 5WT is listed as:

@100°C: 8 mm2/s

@40°C: 16 mm2/s

 

I've only ever tried varying the shock oil weight on mountain bike forks and large 20kg RC buggies,  so I'm definitely not equipped to give any advice on how the 5000kg SUMB would handle (and my SUMB isn't running yet), so hopefully someone with more experience could advise, but it looks looks even 10WT would give a noticeable increase in damping stiffness?

Good luck!

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Actually, I've just noticed that in MAT4155, in table 2, they also list the following in English (the scan I downloaded only has part of that page)

"Fluid Shock Absorber Heavy"

JAN-F-461

Which is apparently MIL-S-46013, that's a silicone fluid. 

I can't find any technical specs yet though!

 

 

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On 3/1/2021 at 1:08 PM, Slimjim176 said:

That's interesting! I find a company overseas that specialises in re-casting metallastic bushes but have contacted them. 

Have you found a specific compound/kit?

There are various threads on Driftworks, Grassrootsmotorsports etc

 

The maintenance manual MAT4155 lists the shock absorber oil as AR 3520 or  OM-15 (equivalent to OM-18).

As an example,  Nyco list the following info for their FH 51: 

Kinematic viscosity:

@100°C: 5.39 mm2/s

@40°C: 14.12 mm2/s

 

By comparison Redline Heavyweight 30WT Suspension Fluid is listed as:

@100°C: 22.8 mm2/s

@40°C: 67.9 mm2/s

 

Their Medium 10WT is listed as:

@100°C: 17.7 mm2/s

@40°C: 32.0 mm2/s

 

Lightweight 5WT is listed as:

@100°C: 8 mm2/s

@40°C: 16 mm2/s

 

I've only ever tried varying the shock oil weight on mountain bike forks and large 20kg RC buggies,  so I'm definitely not equipped to give any advice on how the 5000kg SUMB would handle (and my SUMB isn't running yet), so hopefully someone with more experience could advise, but it looks looks even 10WT would give a noticeable increase in damping stiffness?

Good luck!

Just looking at these oil specs you listed, the British military grades of OM-15 and OM-18 are identical in viscosity, except that OM-15 is a 'super clean' fluid for aircraft standards and hence expensive so OM-18 is better. I would contact Morris Lubricants in Shrewsbury for help. The Medium grade spec that you show is pretty much of the spec of universal hydraulic oil for plant (ie. JCB, etc). Oil grades for hydraulics are measured on a ISO standard and this plant fluid would be ISO 32 and easily available.

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