restoration Albion BY5 F.B.E

[PB1954RNS]

Hi. Many thanks for your thoughts about the Albion, yes it has been a slow slog but getting there.    I hope to have it going to displays - fingers crossed - next year, but at 8 miles per gallon could be on the back of a low loader.

Paul Burns.

 

[Old Git]

Great thread and has answered a few questions for me re the setup of the winches etc. Any chance of fixing the broken links to some of the photos on pages 1 and 2, or failing that could I ask for them to be emailed to me for private research?

[XS650]

Great restoration. So nice to see a Brit rarity rescued from the dead.

Could you tell me what year it is? And do you know the years of the BY1 and BY3 production?

Questions questions!

I have seen many photos of them  with the BEF, usually wrecked in France.

So wonder what model they had in 1940.

Some made it to Dunkirk beaches where their boats were of some use. They are seen near the 'lorry piers' which were constructed by the R.E. 's. Pic below is a Dunkirk lorry pier  with possibly a folding boat .

I will see if I have any Albion F.B.E  pics

Craig

Edited August 16, 2020 by XS650

[PB1954RNS]

Hi.

Sorry for the delay in replying but first of all - message to Old Git about photos - will sort it out asap.

Next XS650. Manty thanks for your interest about the Albion and have put together a brief history.

BY1  Chassis:   Order placed by the War Office to Albion Motors  for delivery from 1937 - 1940.    These were used for G.S trucks, Bridging Equipment, Pontoon Body, Trestle/Sliding Bay Units and Small Box  Girder Bridge.

Fitted with Albion engines EN214/215 - Petrol 4 cyl, capacity 3.89 litres.

Chassis Start Number 52000A .

BY3 Chassis:  Order placed  by the War Office for 1940 - 1941.  Use as above.

Fitted with Albion Engine EN278 - Petrol 6  cyl, capacity4.25 litres.

Chassis Start Number 52200A.

BY5 Chassis: Order placed by War Office for 1941 - 1945.  Folding Boat Body and G.S Body. 

Fitted with Albion Engine EN280 - Petrol 6 cyl, capacity 4.56 litres.

Chassis Start Number 52450A.

BY7:  Future design only one ,but unable to find any info on it.

Chassis Start Number: 52600A.

My Albion was part of a  contract number V 5103 - Date 21/03/1942 for 800 vehicles for delivery from 6/8/1943  with 50 vehicles ready for collection  a month.  The order was for 170 F.BE, 225 Pontoon, 123 S.B.G, 231 G.S ,7 Derrick, 22 Wireless, 22 Bridge Track and 261 not yet allocated.

The Contract order was changed on 16/05/1944 for 329 F.B.E and 471 G.S.

Both the two types of bodies were to be supplied and fitted by Weymann Motor Bodies in Addlestone, Surrey.

Lorry Numbers for F.B.E - L 5332821 - 5333149 and for the G.S - L 5333150 - 5333620.

And 18YX66 was sold off from C.V.D ASHCHURCH on 25/08/1959.

Hope this is of some interest to you and if you have or find any BY5's in service then please let me know.

Cheers

Paul Burns.

[Rootes75]

Thats really interesting, it surprised me the order being placed for 800 of them. You always think vehicles that are more 'specialist' would be produced in smaller numbers.

[XS650]

Paul , great information thanks, my big interest is BEF vehicles so if I am reading  right only the later BY5 carried Folding Boat Equipment. Therefore the BEF of 1940 would not have  FBE  trucks?

Fancy Albion having a different engine in each  subsequent variant  over such a short period , what a nightmare for spares stock!

 

Craig

 

Edited August 16, 2020 by XS650

[PB1954RNS]

Hi.

Just to keep your interest the Contracted  Price of each Albion of the 329 order was - chassis £1080 each and the cab £68 each. Then there was extra costs of £62.12s.10d , so add that all up and you can see what it cost the War Office - you still had to add the cost of the body supplied and fitted by Weymann Motor Bodies.

The BY1/3 were a bit like first world war lorries - archaic - they had the standard WD pattern open cab with a canvas folding hood and side screens. The hood was attched via straps to the front mud guards.

The BY5  had a full metal and glass windscreen where the other marks didn't, but still had a folding roof and side screens.

The BY1 engine had a bore of 3.3/4" and a stroke 5.3/8" - 4 cyl

BY3 engine had a bore of 3.1/2" and a stroke 4.1/2" - 6 cylinders.

BY5 engine had a bore of 3.5/8" and a stroke 4.1/2" - 6 cylinders.

Albion just updated the design with the change of the shape of the rad and a more powerful engine to haul the lorry and a trailer when fitted. Also the high and low gear box was a help when driving over rough ground.

To answer your question, the BY1/BY3  did have Folding Boat Equipment but the design of the bodywork is totally different to the BY5 and was one on the many improvements.

I can assure you it's a nightmare now trying to get spare parts for it.

Cheers.

Paul Burns

 

Edited August 16, 2020 by PB1954RNS

[PB1954RNS]

Hi.

It's been nearly a year since I put a up date on the Albion and I have to admit that I did lose interest in doing any work during this plague.  But after two jabs and a friendly kick up the bum, set about catching up on the work that has been waiting for my attention.

I have a long list of small jobs that needed doing and set about doing them, when you cross off one job there is still another 24 to do.

Small jobs.

I will keep it short as I don't want your eyes to glaze over if I put the long list.

I'm looking for some tie downs that fit on the body work  - check photos and would any one have 4 spare that they don't need. Would they be the same as fitted to trailers ? I have put a new steel plate in between the side angle to support the 10ft oars and 6ft barge poles that are secured in between the frames.

I did plan to cover all 11ft of the inside of the chassis  but it was a daft idea as it made it tight to get to the rear diff's and there was a 100% chance I was going to bang my head when trying to work inside, still got the scar from head butting the frame stretcher .

Next, is looking for the Bridge Type Fuses as I'm missing one for the Horn circuit and would like to have a few spares as well. I do plan to get the fuse board up dated and take modern fuses but that is a long way off.

The double headed bolts on the rear bogie truck had rusted away to the point that they had to be replaced again check photos. They are at the front but there are two at the back will need to be replaced as well, just waiting for the 3/4" Whit nuts to turn up.

Had to remake the dust covers for the wheel bearings as the local wild life - fox - liked the smell of the leather and destroyed them.

First big job.

I'm going to strip down all the brake gear front front to back, but before I start I have to measure up all the adjustment distances. This is so I get the linkages back in the right allowances as the workshop manual states that you have to lift all rear wheels off the ground and adjust. Let me think 2 ton of lorry in the air , slide along on the ground to the brake adjusters - no I think will wait until Saint Peter calls me before I depart this world.

Cheers.

P.B

Right call a stop and I would be grateful if any one can help me with the spares . 

[Rootes75]

Glad to hear you are still going, this last year has taken a huge toll on all of us. Also, sometimes a break from a project can really inject a bit of go back into what may have been a project that was stalling.

I have felt like that myself before and I am sure others on here will agree. Its a hard old slog doing a restoration sometimes.

Well done.

[PB1954RNS]

Hi.

Many thanks for your words, I think it was the feeling of doom and gloom, it just put me off from going out and working on it.   But now fuelled up and running to do as much catch up as I can to get it finished.

Cheers

P.B

[Smithy]

Good to hear of some progress again, keep at it as there are no doubt plenty of watchers of this thread who are interested. 

[Alex van de Wetering]

Paul,

 

Good to hear you have found the motivation again to work on the rare Albion. And thanks again for the info you sent!

 

regards,
Alex

[PB1954RNS]

Small Jobs List.

Hi.

Just a quick update on the list of small jobs.

Rad Drain Cock.

I didn't put a photo of this but just to say that the drain cock was sized and the handle had been broken off some time in it's history. Bit of a sod to remove it from the rad, but a couple of swear words , spanner and a bit of pipe it gave up the struggle and taken into the workshop to be stripped down. The handle had been broken off flush with the spindle and then trying to strip the drain cock down was a right pain.

With plenty of penetrating oil left to soak for a hour and with a gentle tap on the end of the spindle the cock came apart. All rusty parts cleaned up and I had to drill a small hole in the remains of the handle, out a small stud remover and out it came. Checked the threads and found to be B.S.F and I had a piece of brass bar at the correct size to make a new handle.

The valve was put back together with a slight smear of silicon grease and went back okay.

Passengers Side Foot Rest.

No photo, as all I could do with this was to forget pyramid nosing and put strips of steel down for the Passenger foot rest.

Rear End of The Lorry .

Right I have been studying the war time photo of the Albion as shown at a depot on delivery. There is a bar fixed to adjustable shackles and held in place with two brackets and I have no idea what the purpose of this item was.?  I have checked every book and museums as to what this bar does and no other details of the brackets  apart from the photo   so I have made up my own .

The first photo shows the lorry bed and you can see the bar on the adjustable shackles and the chain secured to it. So I made a cardboard mock up as shown in the 2nd/3rd photo and kept measuring until it was correct and cut and bent one out of 3mm steel I still have to make another one but should be a lot easy.

The bar as shown in photo 4, was cut out of 1.5" tube with a couple of wooden bungs fitted in the ends and a nut/bolt fitted as well. The - call it a safety chain had been cut being withdrawn from service with the bar or during standing in the scrap yard. I brought a 38mm 'U' clamp as fitted to a car exhaust and made a small bracket for the chain to be fitted to.

I had to replace 14 links of chain to get it to hang correct and fit the bracket as shown in photo 5. The bar still has to be adjusted some more as it's on a slight slope to the Drivers side.

Photo 6 shows the nearly finished job apart from making and fitting the last bracket.

Photo 7. Shows some sort of cardboard device, well it's a mock up of the side rollers with brackets as fitted to the rear towers. These are the next project to be made up and from the Black and White photo the rollers look like turned wood so might have to change these to steel pipe. They where fitted to guide the boats on the chassis, so there is very little chance of the lorry carrying folding boats again; so might just leave them fixed and just for show.

Many Thanks.

Paul Burns 

 

[PB1954RNS]

Small Jobs List - Part 2.

Hi.

First on the jobs list was to replace the four remaining wasted nuts on the holding down bolts for the rear springs. A right swine to do as they had to use a  chisel take each one off and the photo shows them fitted and awaiting a coat of red oxide and green to finish.

Next. On the front drivers side slave servo cylinder, there is a flip lid oil cup but this one was missing. On removing it it was full of a oily mud/sludge and no way could it of been getting oil down to the piston. The black worm type thing next to the cup is a pipe cleaner and not suitable for it's job.

Sunday afternoon searching the WWW, I  found a company who could supply different size flip lid oil cups, magic I thought now check the sizes and order one.  The only problem was it had a BSP Thread but I would wait until it arrived to check it with the old oil cup.  The old oil cup had a BSF Thread and the new cup was not going to fit the servo body.

Thinks - how to make it fit ?  On measuring the diameter of the old oil cup threads which was 0.350 thou and checking the threads on the body of the new oil cup which was 0.375 thou, it gave me 0.025 thou to cut a new thread on the new oil cup. So using a new die and filing a slight lead for the die, cut a new BSF Thread on it and fitted okay - see photo. 

All it needs now is a coat of paint and looks the job  - black worm to the bin and oil cup to my spares box.

One problem that has been nagging at me to get done for some time is the oil leak on the steering box. There must be a worn seal which is allowing the oil to leak out - see photo.   It is running down the steering arm and any parts of the lorry that's in the same area, so it's a case of studying the workshop manual to get an idea as to which seal is leaking and replace it.

The second bracket for the tube that fits at the rear of the lorry, is nearly finished but will need a touch of the welder.

Also the brackets for the guide fitted to the two rear towers are marked out ready for cutting out but I had a slight problem cutting them out as I cut through the main cable to the grinder - slight bang and a puff of smoke.  Power to parts of the house off and the dear wife rushing out to see if I was lit up like a Christmas tree !

On hiding the damaged grinder behind my back, I very carefully blamed the extension cable for causing the problem as it is a old one, all that I have to do now  is join the cable back together and hope no damage has been done to the grinder as it is fairly new one.

Cheers

P.B 

[PB1954RNS]

2022 Up Date.

Hi.

Now that winter is moving on and I can now come out of hibernation, start to do some more work on the lorry.

As shown on the last posting, I'm trying to finish the back end of the bed by replacing the missing parts and have finished the last bracket for the tube and is fitted. So I moved on to the two guides that sit at the bottom of the two towers.  

I worked off the photos of the lorry as built and scaled up to what I thought would be the correct size. I did a mock up with a toilet roll and made up the brackets - top and bottom from cardboard. Having checked the sizes, I drew up a drawing and made 4 copies to be stuck on to sheet metal for cutting out.

Then it was a case of folding them up for top and bottom - left side and then same again for - Right side top and bottom.

The first photo shows the finished brackets with the design bracket made out of cardboard. Second shows the finished brackets for the Left side.  The wood rollers came from a patio spindles but I'm not sure about one of them as it's got a taper where the other one is a barrel shape, but it will do for the time being as I have to drill and fix to the bottom of the towers. Looking at the war time photo it looks like they were riveted on and not bolted, there is very little clearance between the lifting beams and a bolt head.

Might have to fit them with bolts but wind up and leave the lifting beams in their correct position as I don't have any ways of hot riveting.

If you want to see where they fit then just check the B/W war time photo and look at the bottom of the towers.

Thanks.

P.B

[PB1954RNS]

Another Update.

Hi.

Just carrying on with my list of small to do jobs, I wanted to see about making up the three missing pegs that support the lifting arms in the towers. Cost of having 3 cast in steel using the original peg as a pattern, the costs are eye watering ! - £140 each, plus foundry charges and vat - come to over £500 - ouch!!.

Then moved on to having them machined out of 2" bar - 3-4 hours work on each one and between £40 - £60 a hour - double ouch!!  I wanted to keep them as original but might have to lower my standards and see what the costs are for them to be cast in Aluminium, but for the moment they have been moved to the bottom of my list.

Next, was the set up of the two running boards with some straps on them. On checking the drawing for the chassis details of a BY3, there is a note on the drawing that the flat straps are for securing overall chains. The straps are made out of leather hide and are 1.1/4" x 3/16 and at the end of each strap a buckling piece and fixed securely to suitable 'D' staples and fixed to the under side of the running boards'

The straps should be of a length to accommodate the overall chains and packing sizes of each chain is 39 x 21 x8 and 1 chain carried on each running board.

On checking the BY5 war time photos the running boards show a round piece in the straps, I have spent hours trying to figure what they are ?  So I think that they are the straps coiled up as you can see the holes in the strap for the belt buckle to fit into.

I have put photos in to show what I mean - full side view and close up of the straps on the running boards.   I will make up two cases to be carried on the running boards and painted with markings but filled up with tools etc.

There should be a photo of the metal peg but when I went to load it up, it was missing so I shall put on the next update.

Cheers.

P.B 

 

Edited March 8, 2022 by PB1954RNS
photos not showing

[PB1954RNS]

Hi Missing photo of the peg, I have tried to put the other photos on - but the site wont let me. 

Cheers.

PB

[Alex van de Wetering]

Paul,

Casting the pegs does indeed sound very expensive, but judging from the picture of the peg, I think you should be able to make something that looks pretty close with some round bar, some washers, flat stock and a welder(?). It will probably still take you most of the weekend to make them, but the total bill for the material would be much lower.....and it should be more satisfying in the end!

[PB1954RNS]

Hi Alex.

What you have suggested is 'Plan C' and making them out of wood is 'Plan D'. 

Many thanks.

Paul Burns.

[jpsmit]

carrying on about the pegs - they look very much like what I recall from the masts of sailing ships, that function as a cleat but pull straight out - but for the life of me I can't think what they are called to search for them. I do recall them usually being brass.

Also in a local discount catalogue these showed up - hitch pins - not the profile, but 3/4 of the way there.

Under $10 CDN

 

 

 

[MatchFuzee]

Have you concidered DIY casting? 

https://www.artfulbodgermetalcasting.com/

[PB1954RNS]

Hi.

Many thanks for every one's help with suggestions for the pins. The overall size of the pin is 9.5" and the round shaft is 3/4" diameter and 6.3/4" in length.  I'm trying to get the pins as close as I can to the originals.

As for casting them myself, a idea worth looking at but the lady of the house is not to keen about this, as she is worried about finding a missing husband and a 5ft crater in the garden !

Many thanks.

Paul Burns. 

[PB1954RNS]

Hi.

Been some time since I posted any info, but I have taken time out to work on a couple of projects that have sat on the back burner. These have been on the to do list for a couple of years, so thought time to do them.

Lifting Beams Pegs.

Well having a good think about them and the costs of castings, I made the missing 4 pegs out of wood. These will do until I want to get them cast in Iron.

They took about 3/4 days to make one, as I don't have a wood turning lathe so I cut and filed with various Rasps to get the main part of the peg round and central to the rest of the body.

I then drilled a small hole in the main body and bent up out of Brass round bar a 2" ring and fitted a small chain then a small bracket to the chain. The originals have a ring welded to the tower but having no welder, decided to bolt them on.

Lifting Beams.

The lorry has two original beams at the front and two rear new build. There was no lifting chains on them as far as I can see they were just left sitting on top of each other in the chassis. I have put new chains on the beams and left a certain amount of surplus for when I get the last beam made up and connect them to the chain. Two of the beams had no rings in them so again I bent two new rings up out of steel round bar.

Rollers.

The two rollers have now been made up and fitted, these are to guide the folding boats on the roller bed.

Electrics

On the rear of the lorry fitted under the rear hook, there are two small lights fitted in a bracket with a on/off switch. They shine outwards, so are they convoy lights so the following lorry can see then and not have a axle flood light. I have checked the wiring diagram to see if they are on there but can only find brake stop lights. 

When I stripped them they had one red slide and a white slide, to which I have replaced as per original. Would these these be a Post War mod as there was no axle flood light on the lorry when I got from the scrap yard and no part with the lorry.

The photo's are not too good as the lorry is parked close to my fence but will try again to show how they match up with the war time photo.

So I'm going to try and get a lamp and wire it in with a switch so it gives more light on the rear end of the lorry when driving in the dark.

 

[Adrian Barrell]

Those are Canadian side/rear lights and might be Dutch copies.

[REME 245]

You are probably refering to either of these Lucas Lights or the Butler equivalent.   Early war they used a Rubbolite unit.