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Albion BY5 F.B.E


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Hi.

The weather down here in the South West has been the monsoon season - non stop rain. Every time I go out when it does stop, to take catch up photos - it rains. But I hope there will be a dry spell to take them this weekend.

Right bit of a update. I did manage to change the top piece of the side locker but not able to paint yet. The top was a bit flimsy and if any one had walked on it , then it would possibly bend in the middle as I used 1.2 mm steel, this is now 2 mm . The order for the new cable for the rear marker light and junction box is now on the go and await it's delivery.

I have ordered a 50 m reel of black cable as the power take off starts at the electrical gear at the front of the cab and the cable runs down the inside of the chassis rail all 22 foot and across the rear. So to save using a wonky tape measure that some times gives me the wrong size to cut, to play safe and get a full reel.

The passenger side foot rest was also made up and fitted, but still needs the tread bar /pyramid nosing to be obtained and fitted. I did try a fab shop that I use  to see if they had a small off cut , when asked and tried to describe it to him, his blank face never moved.

I need to catch up on the time off and get frustrated when I cannot go out to work on it due to this weather. When I did try to work underneath the chassis in the rain , all the drips off the sheet covering it found their way down my neck !

Will try this weekend for photos.

Paul Burns.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I'm sure you are aware of this, but you should decide at what period of its service your truck is to represent.  The L number you have found would be the number it wore from manufacture until about 1949;  the YX number would then be the number it wore from the change date until release from the Army.  No way would it have worn both at once!

Chris

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Hi.

Many thanks for your thoughts, but I'm well aware of the difference. The only reason for putting both numbers on is that the  18 YX 66 are display plates and will be changed and the proper legal road number plates will be fitted in their place.

The  lorry will run as the 1944 - 1949 livery but by taking off the L number plate, will also be displayed as in the post war number registration.

Cheers.

Paul Burns.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi.

Update photo's of the Albion

 The rear marker light fitted with new bracket . I measured off the works photo and with a piece of cardboard made up the bracket. I did fix it behind the rear off side mud guard but it was too far back so I moved it behind the number plate.

Next is the new plate for transporting the oars as these were carried on the inside of the chassis.
 

New passenger foot rest but needs  tread bar fitting to it, but might just fit strips of flat steel strip instead.

This next photo has jumped the que but shows the rear lights bracket and fits behind the towing hook. There was the remains of a pull out switch in the middle, but will have a ponder about fitting the originals back again as they are too far back to see them .

 

Rear number plate but this has been leaft blank as the bolt heads have to have a touch of black paint on them. This will carry the 18YX66 numbers but only for display purpose, but will not be displayed when being shown in the 1944 livery. When registered for the road then the legal reg plates will be fitted. The front number plate showing the post war number and if any one writes in to tell me that one of the numbers isn't straight - it is -  the number plate has a slight curve in it and puts the number skew.

Then I removed the covers to give it a breath of fresh air.

Paul Burns

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It's looking really good Paul, thanks for sharing the photos. I have to say its been a really hard week at work and this is the light relief I was looking for. I'm trying my best to restore an old land rover in my spare time, but am always in awe of those who manage to do it all on a much bigger scale. It must add an extra challenge moving the pieces around when they weigh several times as much!

Whats the next step? More electrics? The cab? Don't leave us in suspense..

Keep up the good work, 

Andy

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Hi Andy.

Many thanks for your kind words about the project and it has been a labour of love. My biggest problem has been working on it outside and trying to dodge the bad weather, rain, frost, snow, more rain ! Another problem has been with it being the only one, you are stuck to go and have a look at another BY5 to check on parts etc. I have had to work from the offical war time photo's of a BY5 and size it to what should be the correct size, then with a handy piece of cardboard make one - then try for size and adjust. Then cut out  - a bit of trial and error

As for lifting heavy parts around, I have a handy sack truck and having strong arms, thick back and being daft in the head helps ! But the dear wife keeps telling me - "You are 65 not 18, be careful"

I'm sure that once you get taking a few parts off your Land Rover, you will find that restoration will be in your blood.

Right, I have wanted to finish off the small annoying jobs that if I don't do them then they will never get done. So I'm going to wire up the rear light, fit the junction box and the two way switch. Now this where the problem starts.

If you look at the start of page 3, there is a copy of the wiring diagram that is in the workshop manual. I was going to use this to sort out the light, on the rear BUT on checking the drivers manual there is a different diagram. The diagram from the workshop manual shows at the rear a tail lamp, junction box, feed off to the trailer adapter, carries on to a two way switch and the rear axle floodlamp.

Okay so what's the problem? well on the drivers manual diagram, it shows a feed to a stop lamp switch, then to the junction box , with a feed off to the stop lamp, feed to the tail lamp, then to the two way switch for the axle floodlamp. 

So which one do I do, this would explain the lamp bracket under the tow hook with two red lights fitted and the pull out switch but not sure on how or where to fit the stop lamp switch or what type to use. Or shall I just fit as per the workshop manual

Regards.

Paul Burns.

 

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Personally I'd wire the rears and the diff light together to operate from the main lighting switch in the cab and leave the two way switch in place but by passed, you need all the illumination you can get on the rear end with today's traffic and I doubt that the RCMP will pull you over 74 years later and put you on a charge for showing a rear light instead of a blackout diff light or vice versa xD

Pete

Edited by Pete Ashby
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12 hours ago, PB1954RNS said:

Hi Andy.

...Another problem has been with it being the only one, you are stuck to go and have a look at another BY5 to check on parts etc. I have had to work from the offical war time photo's of a BY5 and size it to what should be the correct size, then with a handy piece of cardboard make one - then try for size and adjust. Then cut out  - a bit of trial and error

Well there are three others. Trouble is, all are in at least 20m of water...and two are mostly buried under a pile of Morris Commercial, BSA M20 motorcycles, the odd Lee Enfield rifle and aircraft spare parts. And there is a good chance they are BY3 F.B.E. They are all in the forward hold of the SS Thistlegorm in the Red Sea. Access for most is, I will grant you, practically impossible.

But...I have heard some good news and that is a return to Egypt and the Thistlegorm in the early stages of planning. It won't happen for a few months, but when I am there I'm more than willing to scan/photograph the most accessible* example if needed?

Just let me know and I will see what I can do.

You can see a pair of the pylons that held the cargo of boats in place sticking out of the debris pile here:

3D model of debris pile in forward hold

*The term "accessible" is still relative. Its quite tight in the forward cargo hold but can get to 3 sides of it.

Edited by SimonBrown
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Hi

 Many thanks for the kind words and advice, it's a good feeling to know  that you are doing it right. Perhaps I'm bit of 'Old School' and want to see it right and having spent many years restoring steam loco's  back to their original condition has  stuck with me and want it to show on the Albion. But there are times when I have completed a job, I stand back , look at it and think  'No not happy with that' and do it again.

As for the rear electrics , I going to take the easy route and use the workshop diagram. I did buy a 4 way junction box and is now happly fitted to the chassis but I won't wire in the trailer adapter as there is no need for it. As the lorry is 75 years old, wont be pulling any trailers . 

The axle flood light will be wired in when I can get hold of one and use the bracket that is fitted at the back of the towing hook, to fit one red and one white lights to throw more light  on the rear end  for any following motorist

Simon, on your next visit I would like to see any photo's you can get of the BY3 's on the wreck for my own collection. And perhaps you could take a couple of air bags, box of spanners , unbolt a rear axle, fill the air bags with air from a couple of handy air cylinders you took down with you on the dive and float the axle to the surface.  Might be a bit of a job fitting it into your luggage but just push it with your foot and tell Customs it's a very old wheel barrow !

I can then strip out the rear diff as trying to get one in this Country is very rare and reverse engineering to make one is very expensive.

Cheers.

Paul Burns

 

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8 minutes ago, PB1954RNS said:

Simon, on your next visit I would like to see any photo's you can get of the BY3 's on the wreck for my own collection.

I will almost certainly have some already. Give me a few days and I will have a look.

Quote

And perhaps you could take a couple of air bags, box of spanners , unbolt a rear axle, fill the air bags with air from a couple of handy air cylinders you took down with you on the dive and float the axle to the surface.  Might be a bit of a job fitting it into your luggage but just push it with your foot and tell Customs it's a very old wheel barrow !

I can then strip out the rear diff as trying to get one in this Country is very rare and reverse engineering to make one is very expensive.

This is going to be trickier, on so many levels...we would need an air lift and a grab to shift the several tons of debris they are buried under...the first job before tackling the matter of luggage would be getting the axle back on deck as none of the boats have a crane. Plus the sheer volume of WD40 needed to loosen those bolts is going to make the Torrey Canyon look like a drop in the ocean.

Now, about those photos? If there is anything specific you really need to see then let me know and I can direct the camera accordingly.

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Hi Simon.

My last posting was only meant as a light hearted comment and having looked at the photos most of the details I want are below the piles of motor bikes. If you could get permission to remove a axle, then you would need burning gear to cut it out.

Some thing that is puzzling me about the wreck and that is - is it a war grave as 9 were killed when it was hit; 4 crew and 5 Royal Navy .

Also, the most concerning thing is, that there divers messing around with live munitions  that are getting more unsafe as time goes on. The ship deck and hold are still covered with live  rounds which could still go off  and supply new members to the Grim Reaper !

Even a 100 year French WW1 bomb still caused injury to a 18 year old metal detectorists, who lost his index finger and 50 pieces  of shrapnel in his body when he hit the  1915 French MLE impact detonator by accident.  The hospital did manage to sew his finger back on and remove all of the shrapnel.

Is it time to the leave ship wreck alone like the SS RICHARD MONTGOMERY and just let it rest in peace.

Cheers.

Paul Burns.

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6 minutes ago, PB1954RNS said:

My last posting was only meant as a light hearted comment and having looked at the photos most of the details I want are below the piles of motor bikes. If you could get permission to remove a axle, then you would need burning gear to cut it out.

Sure, understood. Irony and humour is one of the hardest things to convey on t'internet.

There is a third and far more accessible vehicle on the upper cargo deck. I will dig out some images.

Quote

Some thing that is puzzling me about the wreck and that is - is it a war grave as 9 were killed when it was hit; 4 crew and 5 Royal Navy .

Also, the most concerning thing is, that there divers messing around with live munitions  that are getting more unsafe as time goes on. The ship deck and hold are still covered with live  rounds which could still go off  and supply new members to the Grim Reaper !

Correct on the loss of life. Some of the RN DEMS gunners and ship's crew were sleeping on on the holds when the bomb landed, according to accounts at the time. Angus McLey's George Medal citation makes humble reading.

Generally, divers are not messing around with the munitions. There are a few 4in shell cases that have had the base plate buffed up to reveal the crows foot, date of manufacture etc but for the most part divers have no idea what they are looking at, let alone fiddle with it. There are some 15" shells near the aft end of what is left of hold No 4 but with marine growth many won't realise what they are looking at. 

No 5. hold was crammed with boxes and boxes of 4in shells, and the seabed is littered with boxes and individual shells thrown from the wreck by the explosion.

As long as its left alone underwater UXO is pretty benign and the depth of hold No4 & 5 generally limits the time most divers can spend here. Plus most dives are done with a guide leading a group around the wreck. Most divers swim by without realising its all there, or have it pointed out by a guide as they swim by.

So in terms of risk, by far the biggest risk to loss of life is all due to the divers themselves and right at the top of the list is running out of gas. In the time I spent there I saw two individuals hanging off the dive guide's alternate air supply as they had drained their tank. The underwater world punishes mistakes quickly and thats before anyone has even realised there are tons of bang in the aft end of the ship.

Quote

Is it time to the leave ship wreck alone like the SS RICHARD MONTGOMERY and just let it rest in peace.

Ah yes, the Montgomery. If that lot ever high orders, the east coast of Kent and Essex will be a little different. The longstanding policy has been to leave well alone...if that is a sensible long-term strategy remains to be seen. I'm glad I do not live on Canvey Island.

Could we leave the Thistlegorm alone? Aside from the munitions there are few comparisons between the two wrecks. One sits very challenging conditions, almost akin to very cold, liquid mud. One is located in tropical blue warmth. The location makes a dive on the Thistlegorm as about as easy as it can be and its a very popular dive. One day we had 7 boats moored alongside ours, each with 15~20 divers aboard and all doing at least two, possibly three, dives.

Attempts to calculate the simple economic value of the wreck has been attempted over the years, but with that volume of tourists willing to spend hard foreign currency in what is a relatively poor country the chances of the Egyptians closing the wreck to divers is at best guess close to nil.

Besides, most divers want to see the vehicles in the forward holds. Helps keep interest in military vehicles alive...which is no bad thing.

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Really good to see progression on this interesting vehicle. I continue to follow it with admiration and look forward to seeing the finished product. Thanks for providing the updates and pictures. 

 

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  • 3 months later...

Hi.

It was about time for a Autumn update.

Chassis.

After I put a shelf  between the chassis for holding down the oars, I did a quick check to see how the oars would fit. I found that they would hang in mid air and would have every chance to fall in between the chassis and the road, causing some damage to the lorry. So I have sheeted the chassis up to 11' as there should be 5 x 10' wooden oars and 1 x 10' barge pole, as these are part of the equipment carried in the middle.

I have to make up a system of tie downs to hold these parts on the chassis to save them from wondering off.

One of the not a major problem but a bit of a pain, is the fact new angle was fitted inside the chassis but the fixing holes don't line up. So I have had to remove the covers so that I can stand up without putting a crease in my head as I tend to headbutt the chassis with the covers down.    Nature has been working against me with this consent rain and tends to hold up my plans.

Brakes.

I have gone back over some work I did on the rear most axle, the offside brake drum was fitted but not with the brake shoes inside, when they fitted the drum was solid. So it has been a case of fit, turn - no, remove the drum clean again and refit. I can say that these Albion brake drums get to be a bit heavy and after fitting it for the fourth time, my mind started to wonder about Air Brakes.  But I did get it to turn smoothly after a full days work. 

The brake rigging on each axle has been taken down and a few oil nipples that I have missed, have had the grease cleaned out and pumped full of oil. I'm working one section at a time to save getting parts mixed up.

Looking forwards towards the cab, the next big problem is the 'Clayton Dewandre' brake srevo. This is going to be bit of a heart ache, as I have never taken one of these apart. I have basic instructions in the workshop man and have found a part of a manual on the web but could be a later type.

If any one has had any experience of taking one of these apart or can help with any contacts for parts please let me know.

Torque Rods.

These have been freed up and pumped full of oil, but I have to take them apart so that I can fit new leather seals .

Wheels. 

During the last couple of weeks, the front nearside and middle tyres, the inner tubes have given up and now the proud owner of two flat tyres. To ease the weight on the tyre, there are axle stands supporting them until I can replace the inner tubes and flaps, these are in the stores ready for fitting.

The last two wheels have now been cleaned up from the rust and bits of rubber. They now have been painted in red oxide and when I can get some green paint, be given a couple of coats.

The wheels are the spare and offside middle wheel, they will need two new tyres, inner tubes and flaps.

Wanted.

5 x 10' wooden oars, 1 x 10' barge pole and two 1940's life jackets as they were part of the kit. 

Right next update will have some photos.

P.B

 

 

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Hi.

Many thanks for your reply, I also have found this manual and printed it off. I'm not sure what age it is. It might be more of a modern one but I don't know what sort of age they stopped using these servo's. But there are some pages missing but hopefully between the workshop manual and this manual, put the fear and dread aside and take it apart and service it.

Now the major problem has been that the top cover has been replaced with a poor replacement and not fitted correctly with the chance that over the years it has been standing that water has got into the main body.  So at present it is covered over to stop any further damage to it.

There is a oil cup on the top of the main body but the lid is missing and there  was a large split pin put in the oil way, dont know if this was a better way of allowing oil to drip feed in to the body but I will make up a worsted plug trimming. Also I will have to replace the oil cup as it's in a bit of a bad state of  repair,but when it's in the shed , bottle of beer, get my thinking cap on to see if it can be saved.

I have put the makers plate off the old cover aside in a safe place, so safe I cannot find it!!. When I can find it I will post the details and see if any one can give me more information about it.

Cheers.

PB

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  • 2 months later...

UPDATE 2019/2020.

Hi.

Just a quick update on the Albion for 2019/2020. The work I had planned for Christmas period, had to be put on hold due to the fact  I caught this winter bug. And if you have not got it yet, it is a little sod.

Wheels.

I reported that I had two flats - front and middle. The middle tyre was a easy one to strip, as the bead was already loose and was easy to take apart. A good clean up of the inside of the tyre and the inner tube had a split of 1 .5" in it.  New tube and flap fitted and the wheel went back together, just as it is shown in the manual.

The front was a real swine, the bead wouldn't break and so I had to come up with 'Plan B'.  I tried with pry bars and crow bars and still it wouldn't give.  So a ponder about how to remove the steel insert and then a light bulb moment.  A had some off cuts of the wood used for the walk ways, this is a very hard wood and would do the job.

The wheel was laid on the floor and I put a piece of wood in the inside of the insert and this had a hole drilled in the centre. A piece of threaded bar bolted on, then another two pieces with holes drilled in them, put on top with the bar sticking up.  The top pieces had packing put underneath it but resting on the tyre.   Then I started to wind the nut down to put pressure on the tyre and then went around the bead with the pry bar and crow bar to try and free it.

As the packing went slack, the nut was wound down again to put more pressure on the bead and slowly the gap started to get wider. Then by putting wood on the tyre wall and pressing down on the wood with the crow bar, there was a slight pop and the middle insert was now free.

On trying to remove the flap and inner tube, I found that the flap had not been fitted correctly and was bent over on top of the tube. I carn't say if this was the cause of the puncture but having struggled to remove the flap and tube, I found a 1.5" split in the tube.  A good clean out of the tyre, new tube and flap fitted and the wheel put back together, it now stands in my garage ready to be refitted, but this winter bug has put a stop to it.

Brake system.

The next job I had worked out to do, was to strip and remove the Master Servo Cylinder. This was a job I could do just working under cover. I started to undo the pipe unions and when it came to the Section Union, which comes from the engine it was removed and I found it full of muck and now wonder what's inside the servo.

Having a look at the manual there are two leather gaiters missing off the servo and will have to have new one's made. Also I removed a brake rod from the Hand brake and tried to move the hand brake rods but it is stuck solid.   The reason I wanted to work on the hand brake was to get it working again as at the moment it has bricks under the wheels.

Image of the master servo and the braking system.

As soon as I can get out and about, will get stuck in to the hand brake and servo and will show you what I find.

Cheers.

Paul Burns.

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Edited by PB1954RNS
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  • 7 months later...

Hi.

It's been a long time since I posted a up date as I have been trying to dodge the COVID-19 bullet, a few bits to go on. 

ODD JOBS.

The more I venture under the lorry, I tend to find more bolts,nuts and studs missing. The latest is on the engine, gearbox, engine mounts, I spend half a day working out the size required and go back next day and find even more missing.

I have now a list of the required parts and will buy new ones in to correct the missing ones on the engine.

Master Servo.

Well have tried to get this master servo sorted out but it is a real pain as there are 4 foot long brake rods each side to remove. They connect to the reaction leverinside the body and there is only about a 1/8" each side to remove a 3.5" bolt.  So I have left it in place and working to clean it up and check the piston and bore  with the end cap removed.

The top cover was a bit on the rotten side as you can see from the photo's, but I did make another one and fixed the makers plate on as per the original. It is held on by two bolts , it should have copper rivets holding it on and these are on order.

The oil cup on the main body had been the lid broken off and a split pin put in to act as a oil feeder and to stop the water from entering the body. I have been looking for a replacement for it for some time and last week, sone one was selling 3 N.O.S oil cups on EBay. Last minute bid and they came home.

You can see the new oil cup next to the new cover, it was only fitted for the photo and will be painted. You can see it was very much rotten, the only concern was the thread, would it fit my unit and sure enough all okay.

Front Brake Drum.

I had removed the wheel to work on the front slave servo cylinders and to prove the above said note, you will find on the photo of the brake drum not a single bolt holding it on.

Also the vacuum pipes on both sides are now passed their prime and need replacing. I have tried companies who still make the vac bags for railway vacuum braked steam locos and other vehicles. No such luck, so it's back to the high pressure air, hydraulic and oil pipe, but on one wants to sell me just 2 meters of pipe.

So can any one help me with the contact details of any company who would supply that small amount of pipe.  It would have to be working pressure of 150 psi and the inside bore 21/32" or 16.66 mm - outside it is 1.9/64th" or 29mm .

The slave servo's also have a oil cup on them, but mine are missing the tops and will have to be replaced. Also I have found damaged and missing oil nipples on the brake gear in out of reach places and again are being added to my ever growing list.

On the Drivers side ,the front brake cam lever has suffered some damage, during Army service or in preservation. The lever has been bent outwards by about 35 degrees  and will need to be bent back.   I think that it will need a oxy/acetylene gun to heat it up and bend back without cracking it, it is a drop forging.

Paul Burns

 

 

 

 

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Hi.

The only one that I know of is the half remains of a BY5 still at Mains scrap yard. I had a look at it several years ago with the idea of buying it and trying to join up a chassis off a later Albion  6x4 but Mr Main wanted too high a price for buying the BY5 and chassis.

What is ever left now would be rust as it was slowly falling in on its self, any steel part you might be able to use as patterns but I doubt it..

I noticed that I have messed up the photo's putting them on the posting, next time I will get it right.

Paul Burns.

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I think its great that you are saving the Albion, such rarities need to be preserved so that people can see them.

I especially like vehicles like this, not the mainstream survivors but something you would never expect to still be around.

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