question Khaki Green No 3

[Bob Grundy]

Khaki Green No3 BS.381C of 1930. I have a paint supplier local to me that I use a lot, however he is having difficulty mixing this colour. I know that I can get this from specialist paint suppliers at great cost in the product and postage but.......

So has anyone got any ideas as to the formula or a modern equivalent that is near as dam it ?

[Lauren Child]

Khaki Green No3 BS.381C of 1930. I have a paint supplier local to me that I use a lot, however he is having difficulty mixing this colour. I know that I can get this from specialist paint suppliers at great cost in the product and postage but.......

So has anyone got any ideas as to the formula or a modern equivalent that is near as dam it ?

 

Are they matching from a good paint chip or sample, or just mixing it up to a recipe?

 

The model making fraternity have a few recipes to mix up a good sample, or you can pick up paint chips, but that wont help if they're already trying to match it.

[Richard Farrant]

Khaki Green No3 BS.381C of 1930. I have a paint supplier local to me that I use a lot, however he is having difficulty mixing this colour. I know that I can get this from specialist paint suppliers at great cost in the product and postage but.......

So has anyone got any ideas as to the formula or a modern equivalent that is near as dam it ?

 

Hi Bob,

Mike Starmer has researched these colours for model makers predominantly, but also of benefit to us. He found a sample of KG No. 3 on a Norton motorcycle left behind in Belgium by the BEF, it was inside the headlamp I think. He has a formula for model paints, which you could use to produce a sample. Here it is from Mike's book:

12 parts x Revell 361 Dark Green

5 parts x Revell 360 Green

7 parts x Revell 84 Leather Brown

 

regards, Richard

[Adrian Barrell]

One thing to be aware of with model making mixes is they are big on scale effect. They say a colour needs to be lighter to look the same on a model. I have no idea if Mikes mixes are scale colours or 1:1, I assume the latter if matched to a sample.

[Bob Grundy]

Thank you all for the input. I have a wet sample from a vintage paint company and the reference on it is Starmer so it should be right. Had a thought this morning that B&Q can mix any colour, I will pay them a visit with wet and dry samples.

[Sean N]

There was a thread here some time ago in which someone suggested JeepParts Light Olive Drab is as near as makes no difference to Khaki Green. I don't know if it's a standard L.O.D. or their own colour though.

[79x100]

It was my Norton that Mike Starmer looked at parts from. Areas such as the rear of the brake drums had formed an airtight cavity since assembly in 1939. I'm confident that the colour he arrived at matched on a 1:1 scale in good daylight.

 

There are two problems with KG No.3 though. One is that it changes from a sort of 'goose-**** green' to almost brown depending on the light and it's difficult to predict how modern paint mixtures will react under all light conditions...and no-one had ever seen it in a workshop illuminated by LEDs at the time.

 

The other aspect is that the chromate compounds were known to be unstable and with exposure to light and even simply oxidation by air contact, it loses the green tint and becomes more of a yellowy brown. I've seen no evidence of how quickly this arose but it was often stated that KG No.3 faded quickly to almost a background colour in the Middle East so it might be that with strong sunlight it changed in a matter of months rather than years.

 

I've never seen anything that called itself olive drab which came close but it can be improved with the addition of some brown.

[goanna]

Paint technology back then was light years away from what we have today . The paint manufacturers supplying to the armed services would have used the cheapest formulas , large amounts were the order of the day . Get em out the factory doors and if they last for 6 months of service life, that is a blessing.

[Bob Grundy]

I thought you all might like to know that I have got the colour. I was supplied by HMG Paints Ltd, Collyhurst (Les Dawson came from here) Manchester. The numbers on the tin 449367, 36135, Batch D705045D.This is an old established company and I have used their paint before, reasonably priced as well.

[Pete Ashby]

Thanks for the heads up Bob,

would it be possible at some point to post a photo taken in natural light of a small flat area you have painted, I know colour matching from computer screens is not ideal but I would be interested in the tonal quality more then anything else.

 

Pete

[Bob Grundy]

Thanks for the heads up Bob,

would it be possible at some point to post a photo taken in natural light of a small flat area you have painted, I know colour matching from computer screens is not ideal but I would be interested in the tonal quality more then anything else.

 

Pete

 

No! I will not do that.......But if you PM me with your address I will send you a colour sample.........

[2e0prp]

hello , has anyone found anyone that can supply this Khaki Green g3 paint , looking for about two to three  lts ,  to paint my OYD , thank you  Peter

[Richard Farrant]

7 hours ago, 2e0prp said:

hello , has anyone found anyone that can supply this Khaki Green g3 paint , looking for about two to three  lts ,  to paint my OYD , thank you  Peter

Peter,

I can recommend Khaki Green No3 semi matt from Warpaint/RR Services they do have it in 1 litre and 2.5 litre cans

[2e0prp]

thank you for your for all the information over the last few days , will give them call sometime tomorrow  Richard  , best regards  peter  

[Tom M]

Here's am idea of what the R&R services KG No3 looks like, but as people have said it changes a great deal according to the light. I can say that it's a pretty close match to the original 1942 colour.

I also used the HMG coach enamel on my petrol tanks, it's also a reasonable colour match. But be careful what primer you use as it reacted with mine and bubbled up, and then you have to strip everything and start again (not bitter about that at all!!!).

[Richard Farrant]

3 hours ago, Tom M said:

Here's am idea of what the R&R services KG No3 looks like, but as people have said it changes a great deal according to the light. I can say that it's a pretty close match to the original 1942 colour.

I also used the HMG coach enamel on my petrol tanks, it's also a reasonable colour match. But be careful what primer you use as it reacted with mine and bubbled up, and then you have to strip everything and start again (not bitter about that at all!!!).

Hi Tom,

I am using Khaki Green No3 from RR Services, on a restoration for a museum and was able to find a pristine sample of the original paint from 1940 on the inside of a cable cover, which had probably not seen the light of day for 80 years. I sprayed a small area at one end of this cover and the next day, checked it and you cannot see the difference, so I am very confident with this paint as a match.

Your problem with the primer reacting, it might have been something to do with the thinners you were using for the top coat?

regards, Richard

[Tom M]

Hi Richard, I used ready made spray cans from both suppliers, so the thinner was already mixed in. I’ll bear your advice in mind though when I spray the rest of my parts. I think I’ll use the HMG cans for the oil and fuel cans where a different shade would be beneficial.

[Richard Farrant]

58 minutes ago, Tom M said:

Hi Richard, I used ready made spray cans from both suppliers, so the thinner was already mixed in. I’ll bear your advice in mind though when I spray the rest of my parts. I think I’ll use the HMG cans for the oil and fuel cans where a different shade would be beneficial.

Hi Tom,

Did you spray the whole Carrier in aerosol cans?

I thin the paint with what is called Standard Thinners and never had any problems, sounds like you were unlucky there.

[Tom M]

Hi Richard,

No, I sprayed the Carrier with a gun, in Primer and then top coat with the R&R paint. No problems with that at all. But I sprayed one of my fuel tanks in UPOL grey primer can, then top coat with the HMG coach enamel in a can and it looked great, until the morning when it had all blistered off. It must be the thinners that are used in the HMG enamel rattle can that caused the problem. I'll spray it direct onto the bare metal for the fuel and oil cans to avoid any issues.

Edited July 30, 2020 by Tom M

[Rootes75]

Would Khaki Green No 3 still be the mix used in mid to late 1942?

[MatchFuzee]

British AFV Camouflage, 1939-45:-

https://www.mafva.org/british-vehicle-camouflage-1939-45/

[Rootes75]

So as I read that, for soft skin vehicles late 1941 on it would be SCC2?

[MatchFuzee]

17 hours ago, Rootes75 said:

So as I read that, for soft skin vehicles late 1941 on it would be SCC2?

A couple of amendments were issued leading to additions and deletions, not all relevant to buildings. From 1944 SCC15 (Olive Drab) took over from SCC2 (brown). It was meant to be similar to US Army Olive Drab No 9 and was adopted with Lend-Lease and the painting of vehicles in mind. Another colour – SCC 19 – was the colour for tropical clothing and personal equipment.

http://patrickbaty.co.uk/2011/10/05/wartime-camouflage-colours/