Barney Posted July 31, 2022 Share Posted July 31, 2022 (edited) Hi Steve, Herewith, a rough, very rough, sketch of the vintage valve re-seating tool that I'm sure you could easily make. I understand it came to us from a closed down garage that specialised in horizontal stationary engine generators, Blackstone and the like, that were in many of the big Lord of the Manor houses in Norfolk; a few were still around on the early 1970's when I joined the garage but I never worked on one. If the valve face is off centre then the more cutting bits the better, so I have shown four but it will be very fiddly to get all four to cut, although even if those that don't cut just act as a guide that will be helpful. I remember that we had to turn up guides and mandrills for some engines. Hope this helps. John Edited July 31, 2022 by Barney More info. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney Posted July 31, 2022 Share Posted July 31, 2022 (edited) Hi again Steve, This video shows a similar valve re-cutter and will give you some idea what the tool was like but this one appears to have only one cutting bit but then the seats are smaller. It is a lot more substantial than the one we had and it didn't align with the follower bore. John Edited July 31, 2022 by Barney Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney Posted August 1, 2022 Share Posted August 1, 2022 Steve, Just a quick thought on making a setting tool. Piece of flat plate with mandrill screwed in, upright on edge of plate with stop screw a 90 degs to mandrill, adjust stop screw and pull bits out until they touch the stop screw and tighten the grub screws. I guess that the tool originally had something like this but it had been lost in its 50 plus's years of life. We used a depth micrometer. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Citroman Posted August 1, 2022 Share Posted August 1, 2022 Did find this valve seat grinding tool last month on a belgian fleamarket,] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Bill Posted August 1, 2022 Share Posted August 1, 2022 Thanks for your sketch and all of your thoughts John. Much appreciated. It is nice to have that one up my sleeve if my attempts to borrow one come to nought! What a useful set! They were what I had in mind but I have so far been unable to find any big enough! I shall keep looking. Steve 🙂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andypugh Posted August 7, 2022 Share Posted August 7, 2022 On 6/27/2022 at 9:35 PM, Old Bill said: Adjustable spanner came into use, I'm afraid. I couldn't find a socket for less than £100- which, for one nut, I felt was a bit much!🙂 Whilst agreeing that the adjustable spanner [1] was the right answer here, I thought it worth mentioning that I have had decent luck 3D printing sockets and special drivers (most recently for bicycle disc brake mounts) [1] The Germans call an adjustable spanner 'Ein Engländer" in exactly the same sense as we call it a "Monkey Wrench" 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radiomike7 Posted August 7, 2022 Share Posted August 7, 2022 58 minutes ago, andypugh said: Whilst agreeing that the adjustable spanner [1] was the right answer here, I thought it worth mentioning that I have had decent luck 3D printing sockets and special drivers (most recently for bicycle disc brake mounts) [1] The Germans call an adjustable spanner 'Ein Engländer" in exactly the same sense as we call it a "Monkey Wrench" I have always understood that a monkey wrench has the jaws at right angles to the handle. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Prof Posted August 8, 2022 Share Posted August 8, 2022 Hi All, and Clé, or Clef Anglaise in French (-: Best Regards, Adrian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MatchFuzee Posted August 8, 2022 Share Posted August 8, 2022 9 hours ago, radiomike7 said: I have always understood that a monkey wrench has the jaws at right angles to the handle. It got the name "monkey wrench" because the movement of the lower jaw up and down the wrench seemed to look like a monkey climbing up and down a branch. https://home.howstuffworks.com/what-is-monkey-wrench.htm 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex-boy Posted August 8, 2022 Share Posted August 8, 2022 Also, in the Middle East (my experience was in Kuwait) it is called a miftah Inglese. Don’t quote my transliteration though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Bill Posted August 14, 2022 Share Posted August 14, 2022 (edited) Always something to be learned! My latest efforts revolve around the starting handle. Dad had cleaned it and given it a coat of primer but on closer inspection, it could be seen to be pretty poorly with slop all over the place. Also, when we removed it from the chassis, it did not line up with the engine. For some reason, Peerless have made it a most complex item. After starting the engine, the handle is drawn back, folded about its middle and tucked away under the chassis. Before replacing the bearings, the joint had to come apart. A drilling job in the small mill. And then punched through. With the handle removed, you can just see the edge of the bronze bushing which was paper thin. I wonder if this amount of wear signifies that it was a poor starter? Food for thought! The second bushing was equally thin. I had to take them out with a punch in the end. The handle bearing surface was heavily pitted with corrosion and needed turning back. The handle is too big for me to swing so I set it up in the mill and used the boring head in reverse to skim the outside. The finish is nothing special due to lack of stiffness but it did the job! OK. Next step. The brass sleeve was seized solid and despite my best efforts with heat , I could not get it moving. I had to resort to drilling it out in the end. I then put it in the press and pushed it out of the tube. I did have to make up a collar to support the end of the tube, however. The spindle was shot but I did save the tube. A bit of a polish and a new spindle. The handle was twisted and bent so a bit of heat and some heave-ho in the vice brought it back into line. The spindle was pressed in and riveted over. Then the brass retaining washer was fitted and the other end of the spindle riveted over. Handle ready for action! Now the bushes. I measured the bore for the larger bush and found it rusty and tapered. I pondered this for a while as it would be most awkward to set up to bore through and I could make a tapered bush but it would be a bodge. Then I had a thought and rummaged under the bench only to come up with a brand new expanding reamer, still in the grease and the exact right size! The gods were smiling that day! This soon cleaned out the hole, straight and parallel once again and I machined the bush to suit. All well here. Now bush number two. I had previously given the spindle a light skim but it has been hardened to protect the dog and it made a mess of my tipped tool. I managed to clean it up enough, however. A trial assembly was called for to see how it folds away after use. There should be a spring clip to retain the handle but this was long gone so I cut a strip of spring steel and bent it to fit. The whole lot is heading for the paint shop and it is on to the next job. What a palaver that was! Steve 🙂 Edited August 14, 2022 by Old Bill 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rootes75 Posted August 15, 2022 Share Posted August 15, 2022 This work is superb. Attention to detail and skills are A1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great War truck Posted August 15, 2022 Author Share Posted August 15, 2022 As you will already know our next big task was to press the tyres on to the wheels. I had taken everything up to the press a few weeks ago and we had a big gathering this Saturday to put the tyres on the wheels. All four tyres are NOS, but two of them had been squashed at some stage and pressed into an oval shape. We had tried to jack this out but were concerned that pressing these tyres on might be a challenge. The first wheel we did we put sprocket up and the good tyre went on really well. We even had to add a bit of oil as the fit was quite tight. The second tyre pressed on over the top and the wheel was done in quick time. Good job too as it was an incredibly hot day. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great War truck Posted August 15, 2022 Author Share Posted August 15, 2022 Second wheel we pressed sprocket down so the oval tyre had to go on first. Unfortunately this was too easy and we could see day light between the tyre and the wheel. This was no good, but luckily we knew of a steel fabricator nearby who cut as a steel shim to go in between the wheel and the tyre. We had to hold this in place with a pair of ratchet straps and tapped over the edge of the shim to hold it in place. The shim started to runkle (a new word we made up on the day) which we had to tap down with a hammer. Second tyre went in over the top and job was done. 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great War truck Posted August 15, 2022 Author Share Posted August 15, 2022 (edited) We had completed this task very quickly and the tyres were loaded for the trip home and putting back on the lorry. A photo shoot had been arranged with Barrys B Type and a lovely young model who wore a replica LGOC clippie - bus conductor uniform. I am pleased to say that the solid tyre vehicle enthusiasts did not bat an eyelid nor act out of the ordinary to cause this young lady any embarrassment. Edited August 15, 2022 by Great War truck 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radiomike7 Posted August 15, 2022 Share Posted August 15, 2022 Somehow I'm not convinced that LGOC clippies were issued with mobile phones?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great War truck Posted August 16, 2022 Author Share Posted August 16, 2022 Yes, you are probably right. Also the nail varnish is a bit dodgy too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Bill Posted August 17, 2022 Share Posted August 17, 2022 Whilst Dad is repairing the paintwork on the wheels, I have picked up the job of sorting out the engine breathers. When we first took delivery of the lorry, we found the item on the left in one of the boxes. It took a while to identify it but we eventually realised that it was a crank case breather, sorely in need of attention. It was put to one side whilst we did other things. Then a few years later, we spotted the one on the right at Beaulieu Autojumble. We couldn't believe our luck and brought it home at which point we realised that the engine has one at each end and that we needed two! It was an amazing find though and I wonder where it has been all these years. We still needed to repair or replace the first one and after some consideration, I thought I could get away with simply replacing the conical section. To that end, I turned up a piece of fence post to wrap some sheet around. Then I dismantled the the remains, leaving bit at each end to which I could solder the new piece. I drew out a paper template on the board and cut the brass to match. Here it is demonstrating the famous optical illusion that it is bigger than the brass! The joint has a lap on the back, riveted and silver soldered in place. Trial fit is looking promising. Drill all the breather holes. This was done with trepidation as I was scared that the drill would bite and tear the brass. Fortunately, I got away with it. Soft soldered at both ends. And finally buffed up. Another job ticked off! Steve 🙂 13 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney Posted August 18, 2022 Share Posted August 18, 2022 Very nice Steve but rather OTT for just a breather, me thinks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great War truck Posted August 18, 2022 Author Share Posted August 18, 2022 Ah, you know how it is. We want to get it right 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Bill Posted August 21, 2022 Share Posted August 21, 2022 Another part we are going to want soon after the engine is installed is the carburettor. As you can see, it is a bit unconventional! The principle is quite simple in that it has only a single jet and a secondary valve opens against a spring to let auxiliary air in as the throttle is opened. I am expecting it to take some serious setting up! The most unconventional part is the throttle valve which is of the sliding variety with two seats. When it is shut, the left hand seat is in contact but the right hand one has a gap, set by rotating the threaded ring, to control the idle. I am sure it works but it would be a real pain to set as the engine must be stopped each time, the ring rotated a bit and then the engine started again. Oh well. When we got the lorry, there was no carb included. Quite amazingly, Tim found one on Ebay, in Maryland. It is exactly the right one and dropped right on to the engine. I have started to sort it out and began by unscrewing the float chamber cover. The filter, built into the bottom of the float chamber obviously hadn't been cleaned for a while. Then the water drain tap from the heating jacket. The bolts holding the castings together gave in to a bit of heat. Now the end of the throttle valve can be seen. I managed to free up the spindle but it still didn't move much. Auxiliary air valve next. That also needed the heat. The jet plug had a gob of solder on it. I wonder if that was to discourage 'fiddling'? The jet would not move in spite of applied heat so I made up an extended bit for my impact driver. That soon sorted it without breaking anything. Now, the top casting. The cover gave in to some heat and unscrewed. The locking ring also came loose with a C-spanner and more heat. Desite the cover being removed, the valve would not come out. (to the left in the pic). I pondered it for quite a while and eventually asked for some opinions from my pal, Adrian. We eventually reached the conclusion that the bulge you can see here is not original but actually caused by frost possibly over a number of cycles. The elbow is a nice round shape so the water jacket simply collapsed inwards until the valve would not go past. I am currently wondering how to overcome this one with the least damage but in the mean time, Adrian very kindly sandblated it for me. And I have continued to clean up bits. This is the fuel filter again. The float chamber cover polished up nicely. The tap is a bit scruffy but will fight again. The first curve-ball on this job was the frost damage. The second one is that a bit of grit has got into the cover joint and I can't unscrew it! It moved a bit and I worked it for a while but it is absolutely solid now. Another challenge! Steve 🙂 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asciidv Posted August 21, 2022 Share Posted August 21, 2022 So I think the first question is whether you do really need to remove the valve, could it just not stay in place? If you really do need to remove the valve and sort out the bulge, do you think 'blowing it out' with a grease gun and a blanking plate might work or do you think something else might 'pop' rather than the bulge? A tricky one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minesweeper Posted August 22, 2022 Share Posted August 22, 2022 As an aside, I must just mention how we obtained this carb - we did not have one and Tim finally found this one on American EBay - it was being auctioned in the usual EBay manner. I felt that we could not take any chances in losing it so I wrote to the Vendor and asked him if he would accept an offer of US $ x for it as a "Buy it now" instead - he immediately wrote back to me and said "That will do" so the purchase was finalised. It turned up here quite safely as arranged but we were surprised that it smelled (stank!) very badly of some unidentified substance which has taken a very long time to wear off - I wonder if this is why the seller so quickly agreed to part with it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7VHU Posted August 22, 2022 Share Posted August 22, 2022 (edited) A balanced piston valve…perfectly normal if you’ve just come from steam engines : ) Does the bowed water jacket restrict throttle opening? Edited August 22, 2022 by 7VHU Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Bill Posted August 22, 2022 Share Posted August 22, 2022 22 hours ago, Asciidv said: So I think the first question is whether you do really need to remove the valve, could it just not stay in place? I did think about that but the valve doesn't seat properly either so I am wondering whether the frost distorted the seating as well. I need to have a look inside to make sure all is well. This is going to be a tricky carb to set up just so and I could do without any other mechanical issues compounding it! The grit in the thread is a real pain as I was just ready to have a go at it. I have drilled a hole in the side of the thread for a C-spanner so I can get some torque on it but won't be able to have a go for a few days as I am away on business. Very frustrating! Once I get the end cap off. I thought that I would try grinding two flats on the sides of the valve so that it would pass by the bulges. I don't want to have to replace the valve but I could if I had to. With flats on the side, I could silver solder some brass back into place and dress it to shape so all is not yet lost. With the valve out of the casting, I may be able to squeeze the bulges back into place. We shall see! Steve 🙂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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