question 1958 pattern KFS Set 1970s-1980s

[Falklands1982]

Hi,

 

Just a curious question was there ever an issue KFS set during the 1970s-1980s?

[Zero-Five-Two]

I joined in '76 and was issued with a set of KFS along with a green plastic mug.

 

Whilst in training, that year, the prescribed method of marching to the cook house at mealtimes, was to hold the KFS and Mug in the left hand positioned behind ones back. This left the right arm free for saluting and swinging in the correct Military fashion

[Falklands1982]

 

I joined in '76 and was issued with a set of KFS along with a green plastic mug. Whilst in training, that year, the prescribed method of marching to the cook house at mealtimes, was to hold the KFS and Mug in the left hand positioned behind ones back. This left the right arm free for saluting and swinging in the correct Military fashion

Thanks for the reply, might be a long shot but do you have any pictures of the set? Also did you carry them on exercise?And my last question is irrelevant to the thread but what types of things would you carry in your pockets?Thanks again

[ferretfixer]

Believe it or not. The Standard British Issue KFS, was a 'Normal' table top set in stainless steel.

Nothing special, no clip together facility. To prevent rattling & keeping them together for convenient stowage.

 

You DID however, get with your green rubberised canvas. A 'Tube' in the same material with a flap & a green cotton Tie strap.

 

The Knife was etched with manufactured details on the blade. Also N.A.T.O Stock number & Date of manufacture.

The Fork & Spoon had the same info stamped/cast on the rear of the implements.

 

Re: Carried in pockets. A clasp knife, usually on a lanyard. Brown Plastic covered Notebook, SOXMIS Card & MOD90 ID Card. Sweets (Stickies coloqualy) to suit personal choice. Some times a First Aid dressing. If it wasn't taped to your webbing waistbelt. They were cumbersome & bulky/Unpopular to be carried in a pocket though!

 

Hope this helps you.

 

Regards: Mike.

[Falklands1982]

Believe it or not. The Standard British Issue KFS, was a 'Normal' table top set in stainless steel.

Nothing special, no clip together facility. To prevent rattling & keeping them together for convenient stowage.

 

You DID however, get with your green rubberised canvas. A 'Tube' in the same material with a flap & a green cotton Tie strap.

 

The Knife was etched with manufactured details on the blade. Also N.A.T.O Stock number & Date of manufacture.

The Fork & Spoon had the same info stamped/cast on the rear of the implements.

 

Re: Carried in pockets. A clasp knife, usually on a lanyard. Brown Plastic covered Notebook, SOXMIS Card & MOD90 ID Card. Sweets (Stickies coloqualy) to suit personal choice. Some times a First Aid dressing. If it wasn't taped to your webbing waistbelt. They were cumbersome & bulky/Unpopular to be carried in a pocket though!

 

Hope this helps you.

 

Regards: Mike.

 

Thanks for the reply Mike, I'll have to be on the look out for a set of KFS when I next see some. Would you also carry things like range cards and rations etc? Regards Lewis

[ferretfixer]

Thanks for the reply Mike, I'll have to be on the look out for a set of KFS when I next see some. Would you also carry things like range cards and rations etc? Regards Lewis

 

Lewis, rations were carried in your messtin. In a rear Pouch of the then 38 Patt Webbing sets. Or stored in your vehicle.

 

Range cards were only used approx. once a year on your Yearly APWT on a RANGE. No point in having them in the field.

There were/Still are in some cases. Printed on the side of ration Pack Boxes. But we never used them!

 

Aide Memoire for section Commanders & NCOs, were carried as appropriate.

 

On the funny side. When kit lists were issued on Part 1 Orders for exercises / Crashout Kits.

It was common to see '........Carried in the Top Left Pocket of the Combat Smock'

So we used to take the Pi** and said pretty much EVERYTHING was carried in 'The top Left Pocket of the Smock'.

Including the contents of the Bergan!!!! (Which in reality, was Blimmin Impossible of course!) LOL

[Edward53]

From TA days in the early 70s all I recall having in my pockets on exercises was a pair of gloves, plus everyone had their preferred exy snacks, eg a Mars bar or two, packet of Rolos, ginger nuts etc. Mine was a packet of dried apricots and a slab of marzipan. It was easy to burn off those calories at age 20, not quite so easy now....

[Falklands1982]

From TA days in the early 70s all I recall having in my pockets on exercises was a pair of gloves, plus everyone had their preferred exy snacks, eg a Mars bar or two, packet of Rolos, ginger nuts etc. Mine was a packet of dried apricots and a slab of marzipan. It was easy to burn off those calories at age 20, not quite so easy now....

 

Are the gloves you are referring to the 70s NI gloves or wollen ones? Also I'm surprised the rolos and stuff didn't melt in your pockets?:-X

[Edward53]

Are the gloves you are referring to the 70s NI gloves or wollen ones? Also I'm surprised the rolos and stuff didn't melt in your pockets?:-X

 

The woollen ones, NI gloves never filtered down to the TA when I was in it. I forget where I stowed the snacks but probably in the side pockets of the smock where it wouldn't melt (we still had the OG 60 pattern) or possibly the big trousers pocket for the apricots.

[Falklands1982]

I joined in '76 and was issued with a set of KFS along with a green plastic mug.

 

Whilst in training, that year, the prescribed method of marching to the cook house at mealtimes, was to hold the KFS and Mug in the left hand positioned behind ones back. This left the right arm free for saluting and swinging in the correct Military fashion

 

Is the green plastic mug you are refering to the 58 pattern mug?

[Falklands1982]

The woollen ones, NI gloves never filtered down to the TA when I was in it. I forget where I stowed the snacks but probably in the side pockets of the smock where it wouldn't melt (we still had the OG 60 pattern) or possibly the big trousers pocket for the apricots.

 

They were still using OG 60 patterns? im guessing that 60 dpm was a rarity in the TA .

Edited January 18, 2016 by Falklands1982

[wattie]

I used to carry a tin of lighter fuel (to get the hexi going ) , curry powder and a box of fruit gums .A small torch, silva compass plastic bag to protect maps

We ditched the 58 pattern water bottles in favor of 44 pattern metal bottle and a metal cup for brews . Water tasted horrible out of a plastic bottle more so in the unlikely event of warm weather.

Used a civi waterproof as the issue ones were useless not waterproof at all. I purchased a HH fleece very expensive but I still wear it today nearly 40 years old.

Gloves were woolen never saw NI gloves in the TA . As for KFS I only carried a spoon you could spread and saw away at food and was handy to dip into someone else's mess tin .

I never used issue mess tins ,I had a WW2 US Army set more compact to stuff in bergan.

Most of us had boot extensions stitched to the top of the standard DMS boot to get rid of soggy puttees.Still got a pair somewhere.

[Edward53]

They were still using OG 60 patterns? im guessing that 60 dpm was a rarity in the TA .

 

I don't think the TA ever got 60 pattern dpm which I believe was a stopgap for troops in NI. We went straight from 60 to 68 pattern towards the end of 1974 just as I was leaving. I think my unit (2 Wessex) was one of the last to get it. As I remember it, the SLRs were recalled about that time for refitting with plastic which everyone hated. It was particularly unpleasant on cold wet days. We also had ancient 37 patt webbing blackened with boot polish except for a few who purchased their own 58 patt. No-one seemed to be bothered by the mix of equipment. Some wore gaiters (again blackened) and trouser elastics, others including myself wore puttees. I forget if we were issued KFS or brought our own. We were issued underclothing but everybody scorned it and wore their own. I'm also pretty sure we were never issued with "Noddy suits", as NBC suits were known.

Edited January 18, 2016 by Edward53

[Falklands1982]

I don't think the TA ever got 60 pattern dpm which I believe was a stopgap for troops in NI. We went straight from 60 to 68 pattern towards the end of 1974 just as I was leaving. I think my unit (2 Wessex) was one of the last to get it. As I remember it, the SLRs were recalled about that time for refitting with plastic which everyone hated. It was particularly unpleasant on cold wet days. We also had ancient 37 patt webbing blackened with boot polish except for a few who purchased their own 58 patt. No-one seemed to be bothered by the mix of equipment. Some wore gaiters (again blackened) and trouser elastics, others including myself wore puttees. I forget if we were issued KFS or brought our own. We were issued underclothing but everybody scorned it and wore their own. I'm also pretty sure we were never issued with "Noddy suits", as NBC suits were known.

 

Ah ok were the TA ever issued the Browning HI-Power aka (l9a1 i think?) also did any cadets get the 44 pattern webbing equipment?

[Falklands1982]

I used to carry a tin of lighter fuel (to get the hexi going ) , curry powder and a box of fruit gums .A small torch, silva compass plastic bag to protect maps

We ditched the 58 pattern water bottles in favor of 44 pattern metal bottle and a metal cup for brews . Water tasted horrible out of a plastic bottle more so in the unlikely event of warm weather.

Used a civi waterproof as the issue ones were useless not waterproof at all. I purchased a HH fleece very expensive but I still wear it today nearly 40 years old.

Gloves were woolen never saw NI gloves in the TA . As for KFS I only carried a spoon you could spread and saw away at food and was handy to dip into someone else's mess tin .

I never used issue mess tins ,I had a WW2 US Army set more compact to stuff in bergan.

Most of us had boot extensions stitched to the top of the standard DMS boot to get rid of soggy puttees.Still got a pair somewhere.

 

Cool, you were allowed to bring your own kit to the TA, also i thought the compass would have been a stanley prismatic compass rather than a silvia?

[Edward53]

Ah ok were the TA ever issued the Browning HI-Power aka (l9a1 i think?) also did any cadets get the 44 pattern webbing equipment?

 

No idea about cadets as I wasn't one. We fired the Browning 9 mm pistol at recruit camp, ditto the Stirling and I never saw either after that. We also each threw a Mills 36 grenade in training. C Company still had the LMG as opposed to the GPMG - we seemed always to get everything last! At 6 foot 3 I was usually the tallest and ended up carrying it, or the GPMG at recruit camp.

[OZITIM]

Bloody hell, I remember the KFS and plastic spoon, and marching to the mess with them in my left hand, while a corporal yelled at me to get my arm up and stop looking down. I must have a photo somewhere

[Falklands1982]

No idea about cadets as I wasn't one. We fired the Browning 9 mm pistol at recruit camp, ditto the Stirling and I never saw either after that. We also each threw a Mills 36 grenade in training. C Company still had the LMG as opposed to the GPMG - we seemed always to get everything last! At 6 foot 3 I was usually the tallest and ended up carrying it, or the GPMG at recruit camp.

 

Is the LMG you are refering to the bren gun?

[Falklands1982]

Bloody hell, I remember the KFS and plastic spoon, and marching to the mess with them in my left hand, while a corporal yelled at me to get my arm up and stop looking down. I must have a photo somewhere

 

Cool if you do have a photo that would be nice to see.

[Zero-Five-Two]

Just been reading through this thread with some interest. Great to hear the different ways units went about things. I was with the Royal Engineers '76-'94 and while I think we were at all times professional in our training and work I cannot help thinking that perhaps we didn't take exercises as seriously as we should have.

 

Kit lists were produced but these were always regarded as a minimum requirement. Everybody from the C.O. down had their own "extras" about their person. The metal water bottles and mugs were a must as you could brew up just using the mug.

 

The '58 pattern water bottle pouch made an excellent "extras" pouch with a Camping Gaz "Bluet" or Coleman type being a popular choice for brewing equipment. I got the taste for black coffee early on in my career, it saved carrying sugar and dried milk. You only needed 5 minutes out of the wind and you could be holding a steaming mug of coffee. A great morale booster when you are cold and wet.

 

Rations were always enhanced with a personal choice of condiments, Chili or Curry powder, Pepper etc. Given an OXO cube and a shot of curry powder, even Biscuits AB could be turned into something edible.

 

Being a smoker at that time, the biggest issue was keeping your fags dry. Carrying a pipe was one solution, soggy cigarettes could be broken up and stuffed in. Given a decent lighter and even the wettest baccy could be encouraged into life for that nicotine fix

[wattie]

Cool, you were allowed to bring your own kit to the TA, also i thought the compass would have been a stanley prismatic compass rather than a silvia?

 

The prismatic compass was available from the stores but was bulky and expensive ,the silva compass was cheap and easy to use and did the job we wanted it for for.

The weapons we had were the 9mm Browning, GPMG, 9mm Stirling and the good old SLR. Also fired the Carl Gustav, 66mm Law rocket, and 81mm Morter but not very often . Also had access to M16 , Kalashnikov and Simonov Rifle.

[ferretfixer]

Yes I forgot about them! COMPASS, Prismatic.

usually only carried by Section Commanders, Or if you were an AFV Commander like in a Ferret Scout Car Etc.

You would have one in it's '58 Patt Web pouch on your belt.

 

As another Fellow 'Poster' has stated. The much cheaper & simpler SILVA compass was easily carried in a top pocket of a Smock.

Not everyone anted a compass though. & as you had to sign for it. It was considered by a lot of the Lad's, as 'another thing to be responsible for'. It went 'Missing' or got lost.

 

I always had my own personal SILVA compass with Me in a smock pocket. For a variety of reasons.

1, As a R.E.ME Tradesman, attached to ANY type of unit. As a (Then) Vehicle Mechanic. We were called out to locations all over B.A.O.R To repair/recover vehicle 'Casualties' on Exercises. You HAD to know how to find, locate & Return. so a compass was a very useful tool! (Particularly at Night!)

 

2, As soon as I was promoted. As an NCO, you were automatically 'deemd' Competent to have knowledge & leadership skills. (Having learned these on Prior Promotion courses) & Your Comrades & Subordantes looked to you to make decisions & 'Lead'!..............

 

3, TINY Compasses were acquired by some, for their 'Escape tins'. I had one sewn into the collar of a smock myself, as did others. (This was especialy so, when I was attached to the Para's) As if you were prepared when the possibility arose.

& you were captured. Making an escape, a compass would be pretty much essential!

I was an Armourer then,& always 'Visiting' Rifle & Support Companies in the Field when On exercises. With My Own Land rover

, & 'Armed' with a Mil Map. it really was ESSENTIAL that I knew how to get around to deployed units/Companies.

Not only for Weapon repairs & Adjustments as required. But We were also responsible for Field cookers as well as a Host of other equipments!

Filed Cookers were a MAJOR Necessity in Rear Echelon & Workshop Deployments. The Morale Boost of hot Meal & a Brew. was NEVER underestimated!

 

Rifle Companies & those deployed 'Up the Sharp End'! Pretty much catered for themselves as individuals. you made your OWN Hot meal & brews yourself. Because of the tactical situations, it was not practical to have. 'Centralised catering' in Rifle Company Positions.

 

When I was attached to the R.E's. it was different, each squadron had centralised catering. & the bigger Petrol No.1, 2 & 3 Burner units were used outside Tents by the unit Attached Cooks/Chefs.

 

Tank/Armoured Units also had different methods. As the Crews were with their respective Tanks etc. The Crew cooked for each other, usually taking it in turns to do the cooking at Stops/Lull's in 'fighting'.

 

The 24v BV was probably on of the most looked after bits of kit in Armour!......

I was one of the 'Favoured Few', as a R.E.M.E Tradesman. The particular Detatchment that I went to 'visit' at any one time. Was always pleased/Grateful to see Us. As we would be the ones to repair & supply/use the spare parts nessacary. to get their equipment working again, so they could heat their 'Scoff' Etc! I was ALWAYS offered a Brew when attending a 'call'. Out of respect for my Position & as a Senior Rank. And as a 'valuable' resource for getting their own equipment, 'Back on the Road'! (So I was told! )

 

You have to remember, we WERE the Potential Front line in B.A.O.R. & expected in reality, to enact delaying attacks on the 'Enemy'. & this would give time for major reserves to be deployed to Fight major Operations in the Mountain passes.

The idea being, knock out His Armour in the valley's En Masse. & we would 'Block' his advance. With Dead Armour Building up, this would cause major obstructions/obsticals for him to overcome. Well..... That was the thinking at the time!

 

The reality was, we would have been wiped out by the thousands. As 'Ivan' had far more resources of Troops & Armour etc. Than we did! But......As the 'Young Lions' of the Day. We always 'won' the Major Field Exercises against 'The Fantasians' every time!.........I think this was more to boost morale & 'Inspire' Confidence in the N.A.T.O units over there at the time.

 

Though I have to admit, It was indeed MAJORLY Impressive. To see Battle Tanks en Masse & HOARDS of Infantry. Atttacking 'Enemy' Troops & vehicles. Advancing over large laid out landscapes!

you couldn't FAIL but to be impressed & excited to View & Expierence any of this!

 

Due to 'Financial Constraints' these days. The likes of these MAJOY Annual FTX's will never be seen again. sadly.

& I am TRULY Confident. That Myself & other Former Service Personel who served through that time frame.

And are members on here. Will concur, that we ALL are Imensely Proud to have served through those difficult & uncertain times. & expirenced Comradeship & a Brothers in Arms life then.

 

Would I go back & do it all again you may ask?................In Bloody Heartbeat I WOULD!!...

Edited January 19, 2016 by ferretfixer

[Falklands1982]

Thanks everyone for the help and interesting info. If you have any pics could you post them please as it would be a great help.

Regards, Lewis

[Zero-Five-Two]

I am TRULY Confident. That Myself & other Former Service Personel who served through that time frame.

And are members on here. Will concur, that we ALL are Imensely Proud to have served through those difficult & uncertain times. & expirenced Comradeship & a Brothers in Arms life then.

 

Would I go back & do it all again you may ask?................In Bloody Heartbeat I WOULD!!...

 

Steady on, there, I'm getting all misty eyed

[wattie]

Thanks everyone for the help and interesting info. If you have any pics could you post them please as it would be a great help.

Regards, Lewis

 

If you go on you tube and enter Lionheart 84 there are a series of films about the exercise gives a good idea of the scale of the exercise and equipment used and worn at that time.

We were not supposed to take cameras and take pictures for security reasons, before the days of mobile phones with cameras.