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Mk1 Militant Tanker


Zero-Five-Two

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Something to brighten your corona gloom, a bit more tankering progress.

Pulled a tank drain valve off to find out why they wouldn't open

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Strip down and clean up and find out how it works, or rather why is doesn't work.  Problem is the thick rubber diaphragm that does the actual sealing.  It has perished and swollen up so much that it doesn't matter how far you open the tap it wont let any fuel through.

Anyway thorough clean off of the many layers of paint revealed the makers name. Saunders England cast in big letters across the top.  Quick check on the internet to find out they are still in business, and it is actually Saunders of Cwmbran in Wales just to be picky.  

More interesting bit is, this is what they call their A type valve. They have been making it since the 1920's and haven't yet felt the need to change or redesign it.  Replacement diaphragms are available off the shelf.  £25 a go mind, plus VAT and carriage and I need 5 of them.  Might have to hang on a couple of weeks before ordering them.

On a somewhat cheaper note, moved on to the jerry can holders.  There's 2 mounted on the off side of the tank, each holding 2 cans.  Acquired the necessary cans a couple of years back, so time to look at the holders.   One just needed a de-rust and fresh paint, the other needed a bit more effort.  The flap for holding the jerry can in was quite badly rusted.

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 Easiest solution, make a new flap

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Quick bit of folding and bending, new strip of Balata riveted on and we are in business

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Fits nicely. I do like a nice easy result.

However.  I do enjoy the occasional challenge to keep the little grey cells up and running, and the rear wheel arches are proving to be quite that.  Removed them off the wagon a few months back, and not only are they very flimsy and completely rusted through in places, there is also a fair bit of old accident damage, that has been none too carefully repaired, presumably by some REME Craftsman with limited time and even more limited kit.

Best answer I thought was to get them to the home workshop somehow where I can "do" with the right tools in slow time and get a decent job done.  

 

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Once off the vehicle and with all supporting brackets removed, both arches are very wobbly and every attempt to move them causes more bits to break or fall off.  Best bet I thought would be to build some kind of frame to hold them in shape so I can at least transport them home without causing any more damage than necessary.

Off to Wickes then for some cheap stud timber and a big box of screws and I managed to knock this up

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Tied down with blue string, not brilliant but enough to get them home.  Far to big to fit in the car, but managed to blag a van from work one evening to do the honours.

Next job, build a proper frame to the correct shape to hold the thing in place while it gets worked on.

More timber.  Fitted the mounting brackets back on the tanker, and clamped bits of wood in place so I could get the right angles etc.

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Front and rear bits are angled at 114 degrees to the top, except the near side rear at the moment which has suffered a driver error at some point and is well twisted.

Back home for more carpentry

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Rather pleased with it given some of my previous experiences with wooden things.  It is all square and the end angles are right too.  Mounted on casters for ease of moving about.

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Arch is quite stable once sat on the frame, and we are ready to start the repairs.  Went for the top first, tackle a nice flat bit before having a go at a more difficult corner. Started well enough, chop out rusty bit, measure up, make repair patch, complete with rolled wired edge and weld in

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Looking good so far.

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Patch No2 is a bit bigger, had difficulty finding good metal to weld to.  Ended up with a much bigger patch than I was expecting.

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Anyway, press on.  Many clamps and straight edges, careful working, etc and...…..

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It all goes horribly wrong.  Terrible heat distortion, patch all twisted, a right B***s up.  Polite words failed and there was much questioning of abilities/sanity and so on. I'm going to try a bit of localised heat shrinking to see if I can get it down a bit, but I've got a feeling it is going to get cut out and start again. On the plus side it is a good deal stronger now than when it was rusted through.

Moved on to this corner.

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Major bad bit here, accident damage that has had a big lump of pigeon sh*t weld thrown at it, then a good deal of rust and finally it has split apart again. Complicated patch required here.  Wired edge, then curved front and finally the 114 degree corner.

Started with a cardboard template, moved up to thinner gauge scrap metal and finally after many attempts to get the corner mitre right the finished patch.

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Seen here getting a trial fitting over the top of the damaged corner.  Much careful checking and re checking of measurements, cut out the offending piece and weld in the new bit.

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Much checking of angle, heat, and every thing else and it went in quite well.  Best part of a days work, but slowly, slowly, catchy monkey they say, or some thing like that, turtle always beats rabbit etc

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The battery sitting on top helps to stop the whole thing resonating like a bell when you are grinding the surplus weld off.  Trying to keep the noise down a bit so as not to upset the neighbours too much.  Did need a tiny smear of filler to cover a few grinder marks, but overall couldn't ask for a better job.  Can't see the join and all that.

Took the thing off the frame to paint the under side and was surprised how much stronger and more stable it is now, even with that bent plate on the top.  Start on the accident damage next, or maybe the other corner.

Was hoping to get to a few shows this summer with her, but these arches are going to take a lot of hours work to get right so I can't see her being ready, but then again, on the plus side, due to the "virus" most of this years shows have already been cancelled, so I wont be missing anything.  Not all bad, then? 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Zero-Five-Two said:

Anyway thorough clean off of the many layers of paint revealed the makers name. Saunders England cast in big letters across the top.  Quick check on the internet to find out they are still in business, and it is actually Saunders of Cwmbran in Wales just to be picky.  

More interesting bit is, this is what they call their A type valve. They have been making it since the 1920's and haven't yet felt the need to change or redesign it.  Replacement diaphragms are available off the shelf.  £25 a go mind, plus VAT and carriage and I need 5 of them.  Might have to hang on a couple of weeks before ordering them.

Hurrah, I have a couple of grey cells still working.  First job was in a nice nuclear power station some 'cough' twen*%@..... years ago.  Took one look at your pictures and said Saunders Valve.  Very common on power stations of a certain vintage 🙂  then read the text and hurrah!!!! 

Good Welsh engineering that complies with the mantra 'if it ain't broke........' 

tarnished faintly silver, more aluminium foil lining in current situation is less shows more time to fix 🙂  

Keep up the good work (both mechanical and blog)

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Onwards with the repair work

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Big patch required, and a fair bit of straightening

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Using the angle irons to hold it together while patch is measured and damage cut out

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More clamps to straighten side up and hold it ready for welding

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Half a million little spot welds, and join the dots.  Took about 2 hours to weld this bit in fully.  Weld a bit, let it cool, then weld a bit more and so on. 

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 Smaller plate further down

Other end of the arch has smaller holes, so in an attempt to retain as much original metal as possible, I went for a series of little plates rather than a big sheet.

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Still not sure if this was the best solution, lot of cutting out etc maybe one big sheet might have been better.  At least doing it like this saved the original wired edge.

Just when I thought I had got all the corrosion sorted on this arch, and the broken corner repaired, I thought I'd best have a quick check on the other corner

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 It's solid, and straight, but there is a it of a lump of dodgy welding in the middle that has been there a long time. Out with the grinder again and oh dear!

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Another hole to repair

 

 

 

 

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Just a little plate in the corner and finally one arch done.  Still got to grind all the welds back and clean the old paint etc, but at least she is rust free.

Best get the next patient ready

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Near side arch is in much the same mess as the off side was, one corner broken, the other with some very dodgy pidgeon poo welding on it, and a major league mess at the back.

But not today.  Thought I should give the wife/neighbours a break from the grinding and cutting etc, it is Easter Sunday and all that.  Sounds like others are thinking the same, it's very quiet so far, normally round here on a weekend there is all sorts of racket going on.

Speaking of neighbours, new folks moved in next door to us a few weeks back, so I thought I'd best say something to the guy about grinding noise etc, in case they had an issue with it.  Turns out when he is not doing house moving etc he is a stock car racer.  Will be keeping and working on his motor on the driveway and reckons my noise is nothing to the racket he will be doing.

So no problem there, then. be back on it tomorrow.

 

 

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On ‎3‎/‎28‎/‎2020 at 10:01 PM, Zero-Five-Two said:

Strip down and clean up and find out how it works, or rather why is doesn't work.  Problem is the thick rubber diaphragm that does the actual sealing.  It has perished and swollen up so much that it doesn't matter how far you open the tap it wont let any fuel through.

Anyway thorough clean off of the many layers of paint revealed the makers name. Saunders England cast in big letters across the top.  Quick check on the internet to find out they are still in business, and it is actually Saunders of Cwmbran in Wales just to be picky.  

More interesting bit is, this is what they call their A type valve. They have been making it since the 1920's and haven't yet felt the need to change or redesign it.  Replacement diaphragms are available off the shelf.  £25 a go mind, plus VAT and carriage and I need 5 of them.  Might have to hang on a couple of weeks before ordering them

I work in the steel industry and we used hundreds of these valves in different sizes on an electroplating line I was involved in maintaining.  There were two main designs, the "A" type (also known as the weir type) as here, and the "KB" type which was a "straight through" design.

The diaphragms come in different compounds depending on the application and what substance the valve would be in contact with (water, acids, alkali, oils etc) and the grade was identified by a letter on the small tab sticking out of the side of the diaphragm. 

It might be worth checking prices for alternative grades of diaphragm (there are tables available online from various industrial pipe & valve suppliers).  There may be a cheaper spare available; if I remember correctly a "Q" grade was suitable for water only but was much cheaper than the chemical resistant grades we had to use, since I doubt you will ever be filling the compartments with fuel again (although since the price of fuel has dropped in the current crisis, it might be worth stockpiling some:goodidea:).

Thanks for posting the restoration of your Militant's on here.  I've followed them with great interest.

Jon  

Edited by Jayvee2003
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Bit more done on the wheel arches this weekend

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Had to buy a couple of extra clamps to help hold things straight

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Patch in, all straight and rust free

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Broken corner next, measure up and make new corner piece. Extra careful with the measuring, difficult bit etc.etc.

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And oops!!  What happened here? Quality bit of work. Anyhow it's only steel, grind up and weld in some more.

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Got it in the end

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Top side next, tricky wired edge piece, but I've had a bit of practice at tapping the old wire round lately and the resulting plate didn't come out too bad

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Another weekends good progress. 

Interesting thing is, I'm just starting 3 weeks furlough from work.  They tell me I've got to stay at home and will have to find something to fill the time.  Well, now then, wonder what I'll do

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  • 2 weeks later...

Bored? Not a chance, sick of doing wheel arches though.  Thin sheet welding!  Hate it.  Still, finally got both of them done. 

Well, I've repaired all the holes.  That's as far as I'm going at the moment. 

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Heat distortion is soul destroying.  The wheel arches are such big sheets, you can't stop it. Tried every trick in the book to keep it at bay, but even sanding the old paint off causes the metal to flex and bow, never mind grinding down welds, or actual welding. Plan is to refit them back on the truck, before doing anymore work, that way I can see when any distortion is occurring, and hopefully will be able to control it or straighten/shrink repair as I go. 

Move on to the next challenge. 

Knowing I was about to get furloughed I collected up plenty of parts to work on at home.

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Hose pod tubes.  Eight altogether so 2 trips four at a time.  Every now and again I regret selling my Toyota pick up. Still all sitting around home now, along with the 12 retaining straps so plenty to get on with.

Straps first.

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one at a time in the electrolysis bucket, then scrub up and repaint

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Most required new threads welding on each end, 3/8" BSF, so cutting new threads for them kept me quiet for a while.

Couple of them were beyond saving, so new strip measured and cut.  Welding gas bottle comes in handy to get the right curve

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Doing the electrolysis in a 3 gallon bucket is great for things like the straps, but what about the actual tubes, they're 8 foot long.  Need a bigger bucket!

Right.  Take a flat sheet of good steel

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As it goes I've got a few, having had a lucky break from Ebay  a couple of years back. Initially bought 6 sheets of 1.2mm for the Tanker cab repairs, but got a whole load of thinner ones (0.9 & 0.7mm) thrown in, so plenty of spare.  I've also got a sheet of 1mm stainless as well if anybody needs one.

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 Must have left the 3 metre sheet folder in the fantasy barn, just couldn't find it, so had to improvise with some bits of wood and a big hammer.  Couple of hours of banging and riveting later and we get this

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One 10ft long tank

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Raided the scrap bin to make a suitable anode that will do the inside of the tube as well as the outside.

And set it all up behind the shed, ready to go

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I thought the steel tank would act as an anode as well as the one for the inside.  Nice try, no cigar on that one.  Battery charger trips straight out. 

So, spent half a morning bailing out all the water/soda mix into buckets, pots etc, didn't want to waste it.  Fit plastic sheet as a liner and start again.

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Battery charger still trips out.  Spent ages then, making sure the tube wasn't touching the anode, no wires crossed and so on, but still no luck.  Finally, a bright idea! Or lucky guess.  Turn the charger down to 6 volts. Result, it all works nicely. 

There's bound to be a formula somewhere for working out size of metal, amount of soda chrystals to use, etc but I'm not smart enough to understand that, so it's all a bit experimental, either it works or it don't.

Good news is, it works!

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This is the view inside the first tube before cleaning.  As you can see, or rather can't see, it's quite nasty.

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And here's the after! 

Seriously impressed with the result, here.  Proper shiney.  Photo doesn't really do justice to how clean it came out.  It has had a once over with a wire brush, but I'd call that ready to paint.

As for the wire brush, that is an interesting animal in it's own right.

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 6" wire wheel attached to a set of drain rods.  Put the other end in an electric drill and away you go.  Rods are very bendy wobbly so the brush bounces about all over the place, and you have to tie the tube down securely or that does the same.  Holding on to the drill with both hands is also a good idea.  Don't half do a good job shining up the inside.

Looking for any advice or ideas here.  Now I've got the means of cleaning the rust off the inside, how do I get a decent coating of fresh paint up to the far end?  A brush on a long stick probably isn't going to do it very well.  Spraying would be better, but a standard spray gun wont reach that far.  Any body got any experience of this sort of situation.

As for the rest of it, the electrolysis is very good at exposing the naughty bits

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Main corrosion is underneath the strap positions.  Moisture has been trapped here and just rotted through.

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More thin sheet welding. Oh joy!!  Still, went in alright, tacked in here, then cut out the rust and join the dots.  Grind off and smooth out with a skim of filler.

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They do say, if you can't see the join it must be good.  Inside the tube needs finishing, but pleased with the weld penetration

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Got a couple more patches to put on this tube, couple of big dents to pull out, and obviously painting and it'll be done.  Second tube should be ready to remove from tank tomorrow, and that one had a big enough hole in it before it went in.  So lawd knows what it'll be like when it comes out.  I'll let you know.

 

 

Edited by Zero-Five-Two
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Hi,

suppose it depends on the available pennies.

 

This seems to have various 360 degree nozzles for spraying and various lengths of rigid pipe to get the distance.

https://www.carlisleft.eu/library/devilbiss_extensions_EN.pdf

Uk part of the company is based in Bournemouth so might be worth a call.

Carlisle Fluid Technologies, UK LtdRingwood Road, Bournemouth Dorset, BH119LH, UK

+44 (0)1202 57111

 

If something cheaper is required there are various references to cheap version from the 'far east' and one that use the modern airless spray systems used of fences etc.

apologies the bold formatting got stuck 🤪

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I've used an irrigation nozzle with a pressure tank to spray inside pipes where finish isn't important but coverage is.

A 5 litre pump bottle with a length of hose (put it inside an thin metal tube)  and a nozzle and you will be surprised at the result.

If you really fussy you could put the nozzle on wheels so it keeps in centred and rolls easily.

The other option is sit the tube on end and drop the nozzle in from above.

 

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Rob,

Inspirational work as always. Couple of good suggestions above for painting the inside of the hose carrier. I was going to suggest the somewhat crude (low tech) method of making a bung for one end and then trickling-in suitably thinned primmer with the tube at an angle and then rotating and tilting it until full coverage was achieved. Remove the bung to get a bit of air through it to aid the drying.

As an aside, always did like the Audi A4 estate and as your photo's prove, excellent for moving the odd bit of military vehicle.

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I agree with Mikes but would suggest just pouring thinned primer through, catching what comes out from the other end, turn the pipe, repeat until full coverage, drain properly and leave in the sun to dry while you do the next one. I have dipped hard to spray parts in thinned paint and with a bit of thought about how you drain the excess paint the results can be excellent.

David

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On 5/9/2016 at 11:44 PM, Zero-Five-Two said:

Finally got the restoration started properly this evening. First blood, as they say, or rather first paint

 

First Roof Section.jpg

 

One section of cab roof inner panel cleaned, de-rusted and first coat of zinc oxide

 

Do you use zinc oxide instead of primer? How is it?

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5 hours ago, Tadeo said:

Do you use zinc oxide instead of primer? How is it?

Generally use both.  The red oxide is stuff called Bonda Rust Primer, goes on really well, brush on or spray.  However, if you paint green top coat on it the red shows through.  So I use a grey primer/undercoat first to seal the red in.

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Somehow I've missed this thread until now, Iv'e read it start to finish in one sitting and all I can say is excellent effort and fabrication skills. 

In my humble opinion this is a bench mark project that shows what can be achieved with limited resources,  determination and enthusiasm.

I salute you Rob :thumbsup: and look forward to following the project to completion.

Pete

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21 hours ago, Pete Ashby said:

Somehow I've missed this thread until now, Iv'e read it start to finish in one sitting and all I can say is excellent effort and fabrication skills. 

In my humble opinion this is a bench mark project that shows what can be achieved with limited resources,  determination and enthusiasm.

I salute you Rob :thumbsup: and look forward to following the project to completion.

Pete

Thanks for the compliment, Pete.  I like the Limited Resources bit.  What you mean is "Poverty Stricken"!!

That's what comes with having an expensive wife and dependant offspring that wont leave home.  Or was  that expensive offspring, and a dependant wife that wont leave home. 

Actually I love the challenge, the job satisfaction of being able to say, If I'd had so and so,  I would have done this, but I only had this so did it this way and still got a result.    

Painting the inside of the hose tubes is a prime example.  Yes, Devilbiss do some excellent, top of the range stuff. Both my spray guns came from them, but they are also top of the ranges prices.  Do I want to pay all that for something that probably wont get used again once the tubes are done.  Not really.

So, invent something.  Like I said just needed a couple of suggestions to fire up the imagination, and of course forum members obliged.

1.  Use a pump bottle.  Righto.  Couple of months back I had a bit of issue when welding and I set light to a pot of thinners that I should've moved out of the way. Rapid use of the fire extinguisher saved any embarrassment.  The now discharged Extinguisher is still sitting in the scrap bin. That's a start.

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  Pressure tested to 7.2 bar so even got a bit of 'Elf an' Safety consideration. Just need to get air pressure into it

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So weld a union on the back, connect up pressure regulator and air line connector. Yep, we like that.

2. Length of hose? How about a 10ft length of 3/16" brake pipe soldered on to the old extinguisher outlet?

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3.  Some form of nozzle.  Tried drilling holes in the brake pipe, but my smallest drill bit is still much too big

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Bit of plastic pipe on the end, with a pattern of holes melted through with a hot sewing needle does better.

4. Could put the nozzle on wheels. Yep, could do that too.

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Tape the pipe to a couple of drain rods to hold it straight, can even tape the torch to it so you can see what's going on up the tube

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Sorted.  The burning question is will it work?  Haven't actually sprayed any paint through it yet, just a bit of thinners, but it's all looking good so far.  Lever on top of extinguisher gives you perfect On/Off control.  Pressure regulator controls the flow.  Spray pattern is a bit wonky, but there will definitely be all round coverage.  So feeling confident it will do the job

Need to get on and repair the various holes and what have you in the tubes first. but looking forward to having a go with it. Might even try a video of it in action. 

 

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