WAR & PEACE SHOW 2016_ new website taking online entries

[Nick Johns]

I have my answer

The show ends on Saturday 23[/size]^rd[/i] July but exhibitors will not be allowed to pack up and leave the site until Sunday morning at 06:00 hours. W&PR is a five day show, not a four or four and a half day show, so if you are not able to meet this criteria do not apply!

Anyone reading this rather arrogant statement on the entry form plus also the compulsary £10 Public Toilet charge will have second thoughts about attending, quite a few regular exhibitors we have spoken to feel they cannot meet the new criteria so they will Not be applying to attend this year

Edited April 22, 2016 by Nick Johns

[Maurice]

So best solution is to book in on another less trouble show , Yes I have to be back at work the monday morning , so I have to have one of the night ferries back . Wy do they not respond in a more apropiate way to the People who make their show, and get them proffit .

[gas 44]

I have my answer!

 

Entry to the site will be from Friday 15 July 2016, and exhibitors must be set up and ready for the show opening on Tuesday 19^thJuly at 10.00 hours, so it’s preferable to arrive Monday latest. The show ends on Saturday 23^rd July but exhibitors will not be allowed to pack up and leave the site until Sunday morning at 06:00 hours. W&PR is a five day show, not a four or four and a half day show, so if you are not able to meet this criteria do not apply!

Actually arriving on Monday and leaving on Sunday makes it a 7 day show for me, and I wasn't previously aware that MV owners couldn't come home on Saturday after the public had left. I wonder how this will affect our friends from across the Channel who have to get back to work the day after?

 

After talking (at length) with a gentleman at Malvern on the W&P stand, my understanding is these rules apply to the "trading area" only, not the arrival or departure of visiting MV's. He also told me that the rumour of not leaving the site between 08:00 and 18:00 hrs, where just that rumour's. He assured me there would be NO problem in doing that and if there was, to contact him directly whereupon his staff would be educated that you cannont fence in a TANK....lol.

He also explained that any MV's wishing to leave on Saturday would be allowed to up until 18:00hrs, there after the gate would be closed to discourage leaving,but in real terms that would be impossible to enforce, as they are also looking to have shall we say more (user friendly security)

It is true that the area to the right of the MV entrance will now not be used for ANY camping. This is due to the fact they are having to use it as public carpark as they no longer have the use of the carpark.

Im not sure how that will work with regard to people carrying things back to their cars,I suppose that why I dont organise shows......

I believe the new owners were always in for a hiding. I have asked before, how many worked for Rex are working for the new owners,and is there any sour grapes there.....I bet there is.

On a show of this scale everyman and his dog has an idea of what needs improving, every year people (and some pigs goats and elephants) complain about the state of the toilets. So they are trying to sort that,and its costing £10...so what.

If the pigs amongst us did'nt sh*t up the wall and pi*s all over the floor perhaps they need'nt man the toilets 24hrs.

Why dont we give them a chance, and if we dont like it vote with our feet next time.

I should add I have nothing what so ever to do with the W&P peace show apart from being concerned about what I read on here and wanted to know the truth from the horses mouth so to speak.

Edited April 22, 2016 by gas 44

[ArtistsRifles]

<snipped>

 

Actually arriving on Monday and leaving on Sunday makes it a 7 day show for me, and I wasn't previously aware that MV owners couldn't come home on Saturday after the public had left. I wonder how this will affect our friends from across the Channel who have to get back to work the day after?

 

Not sure I understand how this makes things worse for our European friends?? Or anyone come to that??

The old rule was that you were not supposed to leave (esp. Living Hstory) until the show closed on the Sunday. So if you had to be back at work on the Monday it meant a high speed break-down and overnight travel.

This change means you have all day Sunday to break down leisurely and then make the trip home so if anything you should be more relaxed and ready for at work on the Monday.

 

Yes - there are other reasons to be upset - esp MV owners after the comments published in CMV about 40 mph Landrover's and, elsewhere, of MV owners being "scammers" for having all their families come in free on IMPS passes. I think the new owners might be in for a surprise at the amount of empty space this year. July will tell....... My concern at the moment is that Greg and his team are no longer running the Living history area so a lot of trust and faith is going to have to be put into an unknown team.

Edited April 22, 2016 by ArtistsRifles

[gas 44]

My concern at the moment is that Greg and his team are no longer running the Living history area so a lot of trust and faith is going to have to be put into an unknown team.

Neil, this was just the point I was making about "the old team". I do not know any of them nor do I know the new owners, BUT could this be the sort of place the rumours come from ? I remember from an old post perhaps ww2 reeancting forum, that some running one of the fields at Hop farm, classed himself as GOD,with that in mind there are some mighty big boots to fill !!!!!!

I would almost be prepared to lay money that no matter how good or bad the "living history" field is this year there will be a lot of negative comments. I would not be supprised if a damming report has already been written, and is awaiting publication post show. After all this is a huge money making show, or at least that's what some people keep saying so there is a lot riding on the outcome of thier first year.

However your comments about our over seas brothers are spot on...well said.

Fancy a tenner..............:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Edited April 23, 2016 by gas 44

[Enigma]

Ok, sounds a bit better after reading gas44's post.

The toilets near our pitch were very clean, thanks to the Gurkha's working there.

 

About leaving after the show.

We planned our holiday so we left on the Monday after the show, avoiding a mad rush on Sunday.

Guess that's not the case for everyone.

[John Comber]

Having been a MV exhibitor at the show for a long time now, I have never been able to attend for the full show duration, the show is on at my busiest time of year which pays for the hobby. Having read the previous posts and the entry form it does leave you rather undecided at the organisers intentions , if the comment of if you can't attend for all five days , don't bother entering applies I fear there will be a fair shortfall of enthusiasts. Has anyone tried calling to speak to the powers that be, to clarify ?

 

🇬🇧 LONG LIVE THE QUEEN 🇬🇧

[gas 44]

If you read my earlier post you can see that I spoke to the current W&P team at length at Malvern in March. I came away much happier.

Of course I could have been lead up the garden path, BUT that was'nt the impression I received, they seemed fair and honest, yes they agreed they wanted to do away with "scammers".........

Putting that phrase in context means the white transit with "UN" stuck on the side with parcel tape. Before we all get heated and say the UN does have white transits and do use parcel tape, I think most of us on here know full well what they mean.

Edited April 24, 2016 by gas 44

[ferretfixer]

Yes, but are they Propper scammers? Do they use white parcel tape. Or are they wannabe scammers, & do the job half heartedly. using either: Green, Black or multi-Cam parcel tape?.......

 

If you going to let scammers get in, you have to scam correctly. or you wont fit in!.........

 

Damm part time Scammers, coming over here & giving our scammers a bad name!........:nono:

[griff66]

Seem to remember a conversation a while back about transits and the like attending shows, some people get very heated about there right to bring a builders van to military shows! Much like the large Rv various hangers on and one para bike!

[N.O.S.]

…... if the comment of if you can't attend for all five days , don't bother entering applies I fear there will be a fair shortfall of enthusiasts. Has anyone tried calling to speak to the powers that be, to clarify ?

 

 

I suspect the 'for 5 days' thing is a turn of phrase which does not tie up exactly with the conditions imposed on the website and application form. The only restriction appears to be on staying once you've arrived until 06.00 Sunday.

 

For what it's worth, I've had a first look at the website and application form, and would make the following observations:

 

1. "Entry to the site will be from Friday 15 July 2016".

Note from Friday prior to show - the inference is that no other restriction is imposed on entry, other than no vehicles allowed on / off site between 08.00 and 18.30. So you should be able to turn up between 18.30 and 08.00 on any day from Wednesday Tuesday up to and including Saturday (before 08.00).

 

If in any doubt I would simply contact them and ask them to confirm I can get access with my MV between 18.30 and 08.00 the following morning on my chosen day of arrival (e.g. Friday evening?). This will confirm the position once and for all.

 

2. "YOU WILL NOT BE ALLOWED TO PACK UP AND LEAVE SITE UNTIL SUNDAY MORNING 06:00AM"

This a somewhat forceful/ impolite (and as suggested earlier probably illegal and unenforceable) request for all MVs which have arrived prior to 08.00 on Saturday to remain there until Sunday at 06.00.

 

If it had been worded "please, please, stay until 06.00 Sunday", would anyone be offended or want to be uncooperative with the organisers? Who knows, maybe they're planning something special for Saturday evening and don't want a camp breakdown in full swing?

 

On the other hand, what would be a fair attendance fee to charge the organisers per day for a WW2 Jeep?

Edited April 24, 2016 by N.O.S.

[fv1609]

I thought they said the there was to be a firework display Sat night at which the public would be attending. Hence I suppose no MV movement through the entry/exit whilst the public were still around in quantity using the same access.

[LarryH57]

I appreciate that in previous years that the show closed on Sunday, so I suppose that it didn't make much sense to say our European friends will be affected this year by being asked to stay till Sunday - but for me and perhaps a few other owners not everyone in the family appreciates MVs as much as we do, it seems strange not to allow owners to get home on Saturday evening and have Sunday with 'er in doors.

 

This in turn makes we wonder if a 5 day show increases the number of visitors or just spreads the same number of punters over a longer period, just like the supermarkets found when they started to open dawn till dusk, 7 days a week; people started to buy a little and often rather than one massive shop!

[Richard Farrant]

Looking from an organisers point of view, they are trying to keep the duration of the show the same but accommodating the needs of participants to get away in time, so they are back at work on Monday. The busiest days for public attendance will always be Saturday and Sunday, and even then some have to work on Saturday so Sunday is potentially a bigger attendance, so the organisers are foregoing opening to the public on Sunday.

[Enigma]

If you read my earlier post you can see that I spoke to the current W&P team at length at Malvern in March. I came away much happier.

Of course I could have been lead up the garden path, BUT that was'nt the impression I received, they seemed fair and honest, yes they agreed they wanted to do away with "scammers".........

Putting that phrase in context means the white transit with "UN" stuck on the side with parcel tape. Before we all get heated and say the UN does have white transits and do use parcel tape, I think most of us on here know full well what they mean.

 

At least 1 UN van had paid for the show (not a MVT member) and didn't have markings made from tape.

So is that a scam?

 

Not more than a Mahindra on a WW2 display, or a civilian Jeep in military colour.

Edited April 24, 2016 by Enigma

[earlymb]

...or a civilian Jeep in military colour.

 

Better tell these veterans they were scammers then

 

 

[Enigma]

Better tell these veterans they were scammers then

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]114525[/ATTACH]

 

 

Offcourse I know about the CJ's used by the Dutch in the Dutch Indies...

 

But you know what I meant, although it is kinda to the point, what is a real/correct MV?

The Mahindra in WW2 setting was the better of the 2 examples I mentioned.

Edited April 24, 2016 by Enigma

[John Comber]

.

Note from Friday prior to show - the inference is that no other restriction is imposed on entry, other than no vehicles allowed on / off site between 08.00 and 18.30. So you should be able to turn up between 18.30 and 08.00 on any day from Wednesday Tuesday up to and including Saturday (before 08.00).

 

If in any doubt I would simply contact them and ask them to confirm I can get access with my MV between 18.30 and 08.00 the following morning on my chosen day of arrival (e.g. Friday evening?).

 

Thats how I read it Tony , which to me says no entry through the main hours of the day , I sure hope they will have a holding pen , I quite fancy pulling up with the artic at noon to see what they do !

 

[LarryH57]

Scams; Oh no they are not going to ban FV432 Stumgeschutz and the Sdkfz 222 Landrovers are they?

[ferretfixer]

Well, it would seem to My mind, a little strange. That the 'Organiser' is allegedly 'expirienced' in organising large 'Shows'.

 

But put's out badly worded statements, that come across as bordering on threatening. Such as 'Forbidden to leave the site' Etc.

When a lot of these unfortunate reactions to those statements, could have been easily avoided.

It would seem that little thought has gone into how these statements were compiled/phrased & subsequently released. I would say?....

 

Judging by the reactions of some of us on here. I CAN understand those reactions! When with a little thought, as has been mentioned on this Topic. a Phrase such as 'requested to stay on site' & the reasons why. Would have received a much better reception from some of our Members here.

 

It is illegal to hold someone 'Going about their Lawful Business' (Key legal Phrase!) or, absolutely refusing to allow people & their vehicles off site. COULD be construed as 'False Imprisonment' (Key legal Phrase!) which is against the law.

 

As a civilian, you are only allowed to hold a person. By mean of a citizens arrest, IF they have actually committed a crime/ Arrestable offence. And not all Offences have the power of Arrest!.......:undecided:

[ArtistsRifles]

End of the day I guess we have to give the new guy a chance. Everyone is different, and thus has different ways - we have grown used to Rex and his teams over the years. So the new will have to be a change. In fairness they ought to be given the chance. Remarks made to the media can - possibly - be taken out of context.

 

My personal opinion is the new owner has failed to grasp fully the concept that for us the W&P show IS a social event - we get to meet people we don't see the rest of the year and we get to relax and commune with fellow MV owners. For many it is their annual holiday. The public to us are a by-product.

The new guy is used to running big commercial shows with a different ethos where the public is the reason for the show. Effectively poles apart. So it is to be hoped we end up with a meeting point somewhere in the middle between the poles.

 

I have my reservations as stated - but I will be going and will go with an open mind. Some of the changes are to our good - like the show ending on the Saturday to get us home on the Sunday instead of the Monday.

Some seem - for now - to be less so.

However I think there is one real lesson already the new teams can learn and that is to communicate with the movement/attendees via the various forms of media. Under Rex the teams kept us informed via e-mail and FB etc. with regular news and updates. Thus far the new teams e-mails seem to be just press releases and social media seems to be almost forgotten I hope it's a lesson they will learn for the future.

[super6]

End of the day I guess we have to give the new guy a chance. Everyone is different, and thus has different ways - we have grown used to Rex and his teams over the years. So the new will have to be a change. In fairness they ought to be given the chance. Remarks made to the media can - possibly - be taken out of context.

 

My personal opinion is the new owner has failed to grasp fully the concept that for us the W&P show IS a social event - we get to meet people we don't see the rest of the year and we get to relax and commune with fellow MV owners. For many it is their annual holiday. The public to us are a by-product.

The new guy is used to running big commercial shows with a different ethos where the public is the reason for the show. Effectively poles apart. So it is to be hoped we end up with a meeting point somewhere in the middle between the poles.

 

I have my reservations as stated - but I will be going and will go with an open mind. Some of the changes are to our good - like the show ending on the Saturday to get us home on the Sunday instead of the Monday.

Some seem - for now - to be less so.

 

 

 

 

However I think there is one real lesson already the new teams can learn and that is to communicate with the movement/attendees via the various forms of media. Under Rex the teams kept us informed via e-mail and FB etc. with regular news and updates. Thus far the new teams e-mails seem to be just press releases and social media seems to be almost forgotten I hope it's a lesson they will learn for the future.

 

 

 

 

Why does the organiser have to grasp the concept of a social event? It may be to you, fair do's, but to them the show has to be a paying prospect otherwise there is not much point in putting it on, same for the traders too. Try walking around as a member of the public, you may see it in a different light. It wouldn't be much of a show without your "by product"

[N.O.S.]

Why does the organiser have to grasp the concept of a social event? It may be to you, fair do's, but to them the show has to be a paying prospect otherwise there is not much point in putting it on, same for the traders too. Try walking around as a member of the public, you may see it in a different light. It wouldn't be much of a show without your "by product"

 

How about:

 

Because the organiser relies on the social gathering of MV owners and enthusiasts to provide the free spectacle that the public pay to come to see.

 

Without the social draw for MV owners the organiser would likely end up having to pay MV owners to bring their MVs in order to provide the spectacle for the public.

[ArtistsRifles]

How about:

 

Because the organiser relies on the social gathering of MV owners and enthusiasts to provide the free spectacle that the public pay to come to see.

 

Without the social draw for MV owners the organiser would likely end up having to pay MV owners to bring their MVs in order to provide the spectacle for the public.

 

Precisely. If we have to resolve everything to the unpleasant basis of £££'s - every MV owner and Living History group pays to get there and be a part of the show. Adding together transport costs and fuel costs - when I had the OT-90 it was costing ME personally over £800 to be there every year and take part in the arena events with Rex aiding the transport costs. The heavy armour guys paid even more.... Unlike a trade show where the exhibitors are there to sell and make a profit W&P - to me at least - primarily is for the MV and Living History communities to come together, socialise and play in safety. The public are not necessary from our point of view - but nice to have.

 

From the organizers they are necessary as without them he cannot afford to run the show. - that much is obvious. What is needed is a balance between the public's need to see things and the MV owners and Living History groups need to do their respective things and socialise. It is my thought that Rex achieved this more or less but the new guy seems to be heavily in favour of the pubic, ignoring what it costs us to be there to make the show. No disrespect to him - he organizes many trade type shows very successfully. He just needs to work out for himself that the W&P show is not the same as a trade type show.

[matchlesswdg3]

Neil, you express exactly my own impression of the viewpoint of the new W&P show owner. He is keen on motorcycles and has been expressing on another forum this very firm public-oriented take on the show......which is fine....he can do what he likes of course and the show has to pay......BUT I have taken exception to his Judgmental views on what he clearly sees as MV owners ripping off the former system. I am sure that W&P was started up and thrived on the back of burgeoning and enthusiastic MV ownership rather than the Public demanding more. As you say, let us hope an accommodation is reached as the new team get stuck in and gain some experience. To be cynical, it may have been advantageous to put a lot of folk off attending.......just look at the new layout map with all the Public parking inside the ground, cutting down space for MVs and support vehicles by......40%?