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WW1 Dennis truck find


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The blue cotton over jackets started off dark indigo blue but faded with use and boil washing, becoming progressively paler. Very similar items are still worn on the footplates of steam engines. The over trousers are possibly the same material, but they may also be oil skins  (water proofs) and your guess is as good as mine as to the colour.

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Well, despite evreryone's kind thoughts and suggestions, I still don't quite have my head around the bottom tank even though it looks easier. I have, therefore started on the pattern for the top tank!

I am not much of a wood worker and was getting a bit fed up with it so I gave it a break and did some other things. However, the feeling has come upon me again and it is time it was finished off. I to

Pattern making continues and now I am into core boxes. As you can see, there are two cut-outs in the back with return flanges, necessitating a core box each. The flange requires that the core protrude

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That's very useful information. I can picture that blue - my Dad worked in overalls that were dark blue becoming almost an "Airforce blue" over time. I must get the paints out again - the blue  jacket will add a bit of interest to the picture. Thanks again!

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  • 4 months later...
On 3/15/2016 at 11:23 AM, Old Bill said:

We don't put anti-freeze in as the coolant doesn't stay there long enough! Normally, we drain it down because it stays idle for such long periods.

I think you would be better to put anti-freeze or at least some anti-corrosion additive in the water and leave it in there. When you drain it, you are leaving it wet with humid air around - perfect galvanic corrosion conditions. You have Al plus Fe in close proximity with electrical connection through the water. Can you catch the leakage and pour it back in? You might want to use the latest technology too - OAT - because of the aluminium in there.

Thank you for making the effort to bring the photos across from Photobucket. I wouldn't have been able to read this amazing thread, otherwise! Or your others. They are all very absorbing. You have far more patience in attempting to the things you do than I.

What grease do you use in the steering box? Normally, NLGI 2 or similar is not very good because it is wiped off the worm on the first few turns and doesn't flow back. We use NLGI 00 semi-fluid grease.

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8 hours ago, Spinneyhill said:

I think you would be better to put anti-freeze or at least some anti-corrosion additive in the water and leave it in there. When you drain it, you are leaving it wet with humid air around - perfect galvanic corrosion conditions. You have Al plus Fe in close proximity with electrical connection through the water. Can you catch the leakage and pour it back in? You might want to use the latest technology too - OAT - because of the aluminium in there.

 

Agree with antifreeze/anti corrosion additive but OAT antifreeze can react with certain soldered copper/brass connections.

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7 hours ago, radiomike7 said:

Agree with antifreeze/anti corrosion additive but OAT antifreeze can react with certain soldered copper/brass connections.

Sorry, this is nonsense. Modern engines, for which this was developed, contain magnesium, aluminium and similar metals and alloys right at the top of the galvanic series. They are very highly corrodible. Solder consists of metals further down the galvanic series. OAT antifreeze is safe with ALL metals. Read the bottle. Look up the web sites of makers.

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As I was not inclined to pay Photobucket the $1,000 a year ransom for my photos they have blurred and watermarked them all. I do have backups and will try to replace them but this will take me an awful long time to complete. I will start with the Peerless ones. A downside is that it is now impossible to get the captions to match up, but I am sure that you will all work this out. If you need to see any photo specifically please let me know and I will treat that one as a priority.

Thanks

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This is most unfortunate to happen to the photos. The entire restoration story as an archive has been compromised and no longer are the technical aspects of the photos clear to show the progressive stages of work. 

 I question if this is occurring to other restoration stories using HMVF?

 Doug   

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Sorry, I was not responding to any implied criticism, just my frustration at Photobucket black mailing me. I have just updated page one of the Thornycroft and nearly finished the Peerless thread. There are about a further 4,650 photos for me to replace, so I better get back to it then.

Interestingly, these threads still attract a great deal of interest and it would be a shame to loose it all. Very sadly, a great deal of other threads and photos will have been lost. Anyway, normal services will be resumed as soon as possible. 

.

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  • 4 months later...

I have always quite enjoyed trying to find the correct accessories for a military vehicle just to finish it off. Many photographs show GS trucks with a pick and either a shovel or spade on the side. When studying photos it seems that a spade was more common than a shovel. Steve made for the Dennis the correct pattern brackets which hold them together, although i am a little doubtful if they would have lasted on long bumpy roads before dropping off.

While at Malvern recently I picked up a 1917 dated pick axe. It looked spot on and had the metal ferrule in place and was quite reasonably priced. A present for Steve and he wasted no time on fitting it to the lorry. A spade or shovel are required next to join it.

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In the days before the internet, sometimes, as we restored something, a bit of licence had to be used.  I was more than fortunate to obtain a WW1 spade dated 1917 and stamped ALBION, I had no idea that they made spades as well as vehicles, at an Aussie Disposals shop in Bairnsdale.  The shop owner actually put it aside for me knowing that I has my Albion.(I also picked up one dated 1944 stamped BEDFORD for a mates Bedford QL there as well.)

  I had no idea of the fittings and as I was in a bit of a hurry to get the vehicle ready for the Television Series, "The Anzacs" made here in Victoria Australia, I had to guess the best way to attach the tools to the side.  Later, via the internet and after a visit to the Albion Archives in Biggar Scotland, I realize that one day I will have get around to manufacturing the original style brackets.  

Attached is a photo I copied in Biggar in 2009 showing the correct placements and some photos of the fantastic apprentice made model they also have on display at the archives.  (There is also another model, the same, in the Australian War Memorial in Canberra which was presented to to AWM at the opening in 1941.) 

My tool fittings pass with a push with the uninitiated  as all the tools are WWI and are shown here.

Regards Rick.

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An Albion shovel. What a fantastic find. I will be taking a closer look at any ore that I find.

Although it looks like they might drop off they shouldn't be able to move. There are several variations to the mounting bracket. On the Dennis, the pick axe is firmly wedged down through the bracket and cant get out. The spade can slide laterally only an inch or so and shouldn't be able to drop out because of the pick. There is nothing to stop people removing them though and that is something I will have to keep in mind if we leave vehicles alone for very long.  

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  • 1 month later...

The radiator looked pretty good when we first got it but when taken apart, it was found to be fairly seriously corroded inside. Dad reckoned he could patch it up and so spent a lot of time lining it with a layer of Devcon sandwiched beneath pieces of brass. He then painted the whole interior with some epoxy water-proofing paint recommended for the interior of boat hulls. This has kept us going for eight years but it has always leaked a bit and more recently showed signs of further corrosion. I did another patch job on the outside but I could see that the bolting flange was no longer attached to the front face for its entire length. It is time we made some new tanks.

I have therefore bitten the bullet and taken it off the lorry. My new shed has provision for a chain block. I knew it would come in useful!

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Under the top tank, one layer of plating had come adrift. That wasn't helping the circulation!

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The epoxy paint had failed.

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Corrosion is rampant. In the middle, you can see the back of the patch that I put on the outside!

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The bottom tank had gone porous.

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There was an inch of debris in the bottom.

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The top tank is now sitting on the bench whilst I work out how the pattern should look. Those flanges around the back are thoroughly inconvenient!

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The bottom tank should be easier but still has its own challenges.

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I am thinking of a split line, horizontal in this picture. It will need two cores to make the cavities. The round one I can accommodate by leaving a long core print to support a cylindrical piece of sand. The crescent one, I am still puzzling over.

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This is the googly on this casting, a flange on the back face.

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I bet the original pattern maker cursed when he saw this on the drawing!

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A good dose of looking at needed for these. I stop and ponder each time I walk past. They are going to test my pattern making skills to the limit!

Steve  :)

Edited by Old Bill
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Nothing comes immediately mind, but none of that is easy.

Trying to cast either as one piece should be possible, but you may want to consider casting it in sections and then welding the sections together.   I can see the header tank as a front face, back face, and centre section with two large joining welds, for example.  On the lower tank do a simple pattern and then weld on that tricky bracket.

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Yes, I could do a lost-wax casting and I could fabricate it either from stock or smaller castings. Call me bloody-minded but it wasn't done that way and I really want to understand it and, if I can, replicate it. That is the challenge! This is definitely a one-piece casting although in that pic, it does look like a weld. It isn't but just the end of the machining where the boss was turned to size.

If I split the pattern along the centre-line of the boss and then make the mould with the coupling flanges downwards, then the main core of the box will be supported by the sand coming through the holes in the flange centres. I can put a big core print at the ends of the bosses to support the cylindrical core. To accommodate the angle brackets, I am thinking of putting a big core print in that area and then doing them with cores. The crescent shape is still not clear in my head and I could live without it if necessary although I don't want to do that. I will do some sketching and see how it looks.

Watch this space!

Steve  :)

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Took 5 minutes out from work.

Do you think an approach as the attached image would work?

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No split line; everything draws away from the flange face.


Crescent would be part of the core that closes off the trunion. Hollowness as cantilevered cores.

Wedge shapes either part of the core or infilled with sand as the mould is assembled.

Oval flange and T profile details via a side core.

Something to think about, hope it is helpful.

 

Best wishes, Doc.

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Hi Doc.

Thanks for taking so much trouble with that. The visualisation really helps. There is more than one way of skinning cat , certainly! The difficulty there is drawing the pattern with the side flanges and drain boss so, as you say, I would need cores at the sides but I wouldn't need a core for the big cavity in the centre as that would draw from the top half of the mould.DSCN8868.JPG.875123ff2d151307f99bdee2479177ef.JPG

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I keep looking at the casting to see if there are any clues as to the split lines but they are few. Mind you, the corrosion doesn't help! I really must sketch it out and see how it looks in the various combinations.

Thanks again!

Steve  :)

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  • 3 months later...

Well, despite evreryone's kind thoughts and suggestions, I still don't quite have my head around the bottom tank even though it looks easier. I have, therefore started on the pattern for the top tank!

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First thing to do was have a good look at it. No obvious part lines on the top but it had been polished at some time. The badge text shows signs of porosity which suggests that it was at the top of the mould during the pour.

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An extra challenge in the shape of some internal baffling.

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Two rebates on the back with undercut flanges.

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Some interesting markings in the back of the casting which we eventually decided were 'chills' to freeze the metal and force it to draw more in from the riser rather than leave a void at this point.

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After a good looking-at, I decided that it was cast on its back with the text upwards and a split, right through the centre of the filler neck. There will be four cores, a main big one for the water space, two smaller ones for the flanges on the back and a fourth small one to create the baffling. Time to make a start!

First task was to source some material. I was very kindly given what looked like the remains of a door and some wall panelling. Not very prepossessing to start with but under the paint was the most beautiful timber with straight grain and no knots. It had also been seasoned for 100 years and was beautiful to work. I did, however, find a nail with the bandsaw. Oh well. The blade needed changing anyway.

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Prepared blocks being glued up.

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I drilled right through and put some dowel pegs in to maintain the alignment of the two halves before cutting the profile.

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The flange was cut from MDF and glued onto the underside.

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Two blocks were cut for the back as core prints and a much larger block glued to the bottom, again as a core print. The large size of this one was decided upon to give the core some mass of its own and counterbalance the part projecting into the cavity.

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OK. So the main block was done. Now I needed a pipe flange on the back and a badge on the front. I took rubbings of the originals before tracing the badge, scanning and printing it and sticking both to a piece of 1/8" plywood.

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These needed cutting out so I rashly invested in a scroll saw. A good investment it proved to be as well.

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Next challenge was to get the letters properly aligned on the front so I printed another badge but reversed this time. I glued the letters to it, just following the lines.

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The result was then turned over and glued to the face of the tank before rubbing back with glass paper.

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There are some bosses on the rear of the tank to carry the securing bolts but with the split line where it is, they prevent the pattern from being drawn out of the sand. A closer look revealed a clue in the shape of a line down the face. The parts must be removable loose pieces!

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I cut out a rebate from the rear with a chisel and made up the loose pieces.

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They work well and will remain in the sand after the block has been removed. They can then be drawn out individually.

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Another core print needed. This time it is through the filler hole and will give support to the main core. I started by screwing two pieces of mahogany together before turning them to size.

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I glued one half to the top. Notice the filler around filling a few holes!

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I screwed the other half back on with a piece of paper in between before gluing the other half up to it.

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Coming on now. The block needed a fillet along the flange so, at the recommendation of a pal, I ordered up some fillet wax and a ball tool to apply it. The wax comes in 24" lengths and is just pushed into the groove. It went very well but, I am told, it needs to be done on a good warm day. On a cold day it will crack unless the tool is heated.

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Now I need some core boxes.

Steve   :)

Edited by Old Bill
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2 hours ago, Old Bill said:

 

Some interesting markings in the back of the casting which we eventually decided were 'chills' to freeze the metal and force it to draw more in from the riser rather than leave a void at this point.

Did you consider that they might be chaplets? 

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