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I,ve got a picture somewhere of the c.e.s carried on a Diamond T that shows a pair of wheel scotches.

My 981 doesn,t appear to have any chassis hooks for the anchor chains so does anyone know the correct way of using them.

I know they have a hard and soft ground position.

Does anyone else have a different idea for anchoring their truck assuming that there isn't a handy tree right in front of you?

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There is a picture of a civilian 980 recovering an artic from a pond in 'wreckers and recovery vehicles' by Olyslager using scotches behind the rear wheels and chained vertically upwards to a strong point on the body. I think we have had the picture on the forum in the past.

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A good stop gap is a couple of sleepers arranged each side so that one end is is under the middle axle tyres the other end is on top of the rear axle tyres let handbrake off let truck roll back until axles try to climb over each over. Apply handbrake and foot brake then go for it. You can make anchor points for scotches if you get correct length of chain with a shortening claw on each end. wrap around base of mast brace so claws hang lower than rear of body Maybe put a lump of timber to space them so they at wheel width. Let truck winch back until it is virtually at top of scotch before applying brakes Also there was a disclaimer that came with Caxton Hill built wreckers use of Scotches can damage Pavement and rear body assembly. One other thing if you do happen to come across a tree in the right place either pay load of to it via snatch block or split booms and use as designed. DO not try tethering front end I know there is a winch on there but the W45 is more than capable of folding the chassis

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the picture radio mike is talking about shows a diamond t a mastiff and a mobile crane recovering a artic. the two wreckers had bodies built at Caxton Hill by dial Holmes they had key hole slots to hang the scotches in. The scotch blocks where much heavier construction than the british army design I may be wrong but I don't believe the 969 t ever came with scotches

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Here is the DT I mentioned, you can just make out the scotch arrangement.

 

Yes the scotch is of a design made by Holmes wrecker and is much wider and stronger than the british army one. These were only supplied post war and the bodies in this case UK built had a key hole slots in the back valance. they where a very good rig but as I said they came with a disclaimer about damaging pavement and rear body. that truck will have been built as a wrecker around 1973 at a guess

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Dave - back to your original post.. Hope you will post that pic if you ever find it!

 

I'd Imagine that the scotches in a pic on a 'T' were probably lifted from a Scammell crew of otherwise acquired... Seeing as the T is a 6x4 heavily ballasted tractor, I can't imagine they ever ventured too far from a decent surface - especially with a Rogers in tow, therefore recovering dead tanks would be winched onto the trailer against the brakes of all those wheels...

 

I realise that these Scotches went the way of B&W tvs when they came out with hydraulic spades, but they can be utilised on winch tractors that don't have spades quite easily. I have hooked up mine to the front bumper with a chain that comes up and around the back of the tyre. Any solid chassis point would be ok, even a chain just wrapped around. Critical factor is the length of the teather and therefore the positioning of the tyre (and therefore the vehicles weight) on the scotch inorder to push it far enough into the ground.. as per the vid.

 

The Scammell in the vid used a long teather to the chassis behind the front wheel but I have a stout bumper infront that I have used.

 

Front Right with initial teathering to "tie down" point, later changed to "lift" point as it is more inline with tyre.

Front  right - Scotch teather.jpg

 

Naturally limiting factor is size of "spade" portion or 'toe' of scotch and the capacity of the ground to resist tearing.

 

DSC00308.JPG Front left tyre starting to push 'spade' edge in ground.

DSC00307 notes.jpg

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hi, i am sorry cosrec but the diamond t 980 981 series was supplied with two scotch blocks as part of the normal tool kit, the photo shows the standard tool kit taken at chislehurst common during 1942, you will see the blocks next to the fuel cans right hand side of photo.the usual method of securing the truck when winching was to use a substantial balk of timber jammed between the tyres on the first and second axles, hope of interest, tony g.

Diamond T Tool Kit.jpg

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Thanks for that info Tony, they look very much like those supplied on the Scammell's of the time, still pondering where they would of been attached to the chassis if used behind the steer axle?

In racking out a container and this weekend moving spares about I came across both types of scotch's as discussed, photo's below, you will all see how the Holmes ones are wider and twice the metal gauge, with the serrated bottom edge, no wonder they did not advise use on macadam, but with the weight of a T on them you can see their potential.

IMG_5305.jpg

IMG_5303.jpg

IMG_5304.jpg

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hi, with regard to scotching with a diamond t i can only presume that there would be a shackle on each scotch and a length of chain with c hooks attached to the towing pintle securing either side at the rear. as an aside the photo of the diamond winching the truck out of the pond is still around, it belongs to john coomber, hope of interest, tony g.

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Thanks to everyone for their inputs

The initial photo I referred to is the one Tony has posted, it's in pat wares book for those of you who are interested.

As Howard suggested the ballasted tractor would certainly be a pretty good dead weight anchor, I just thought with a 2:1 laid out you might need something a bit more substantial to hold you back.

I found a video on you tube of a scammell using scotches, showing that the length of the chains is all important.

My T has a little toggle to hold the brake pedal down, I assume this is standard on a 980 as well as a 981 .It would be comical if this proved to be a comparison point between the two.

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Assuming that's the Scammell vid I mentioned in post #3?

 

Found another Holmes Scotches pic..

750 front swivel.jpg

This was a USAF '80s civi wrecker up on a Govmt auction last year. No idea why it had those scotches on the deck as the truck had hyd spades on the rear!

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In the second picture tony posted next to the scotches there are two short wire ropes. Could these be the "chains" to secure to the chassis? If they are, would the hooks indicate how or where they actually clip on?

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hi dave, the two photos that i have shown i bought from the imperial war museum archives probably forty years ago along with a lot of wartime pickfords diamonds moving various loads. the photos are about 6 inches by four inches and are very clear, if you would like a copy of both i am in bayeux next week and could send you a copy, all the best, tony g.

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Further conversation... looks like the wrecker ones were part of the 'Holmes' supplied stuff (came with their own chains), wider for the dual rears, where-as the 981 ones look like Scammell ones - single wheel and needed that cable tether. Question 1 is, were they intended to be used on the front wheels just like the Scammell? Not totally familiar with the 981 - are there brakes on the front axle? If not, scotches could have been used to "stop" front wheels, like wheel chocks or spades to aide winching. If for the front wheels, I'm guessing the cable hook went up to the chassis.

 

Second question relates to the earlier comment of hard/soft sides of the scotches. Not sure if this was so as the teeth of the 'Holmes' ones would be needed to dig into hard surface (assuming the bolt on teeth were harder - therefore bolt on..) or the teeth could dig into a wooden baulk/sleeper which has a deformable surface to grab any grit or surface friction of the tarmac. If "hard surface" use was to turn them over they would have acted as skid shoes and somewhat ineffective. For soft ground, the whole front edge would go into the ground as a spade.

 

I am not sure if the Scammell ones were only used spade down or turned over? I'm guessing the stiffener on the under side would potentially damage the tyre...?

 

Total tangent... [is the hook on the M.A.N SV®'s hyd spades for grabbing timber so not to damage roads?]

 

Interesting to note that manual spades were the US alternative for wreckers (other than T's with the Holmes gear) to Scotches. From the Wards of WWII, right up to M936's of the 90's, even the HEMTT wrecker (still in use) has them, though they are positioned by the hiab rather than manually.

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I am not sure if the Scammell ones were only used spade down or turned over? I'm guessing the stiffener on the under side would potentially damage the tyre...?

 

Total tangent... [is the hook on the M.A.N SV®'s hyd spades for grabbing timber so not to damage roads?]

 

 

Our local TA Recovery Company were taught to use the pans flat side down on hard surfaces, engaging the front axle drive would then complement the braking effect on the rear wheels and help to hold the vehicle while winching. This was in the days of Scammell Explorers which did not have powerful brakes.

 

The Foden recovery vehicles also had the hook arrangement but for use on roads carried a set of 'elephants feet', large pads which were fitted to the crane outriggers and rear ground anchors.

1345728576P1030529[1].jpg

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As the question was asked which way around you use the Scammell scotches, we had a little task yesterday morning to winch a TD14 onto a low loader, this had seized running gear and with the friction of the track cleats the dozer still slid the Scammell and Tractor combination rather than them outweighing it ! I was all for dropping my rear spade lugs into the yard surface:laugh: but could see Adrian getting nervous !! about the damage. So out came the scotches , not used for over 18 years in anger, but as the photos show once they dug in are very efficient, I have never used them flat always spade down.

IMG_5313[1].jpg

IMG_5308.jpg

IMG_5309.jpg

IMG_5311[1].jpg

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Second question relates to the earlier comment of hard/soft sides of the scotches. Not sure if this was so as the teeth of the 'Holmes' ones would be needed to dig into hard surface (assuming the bolt on teeth were harder - therefore bolt on..) or the teeth could dig into a wooden baulk/sleeper which has a deformable surface to grab any grit or surface friction of the tarmac. If "hard surface" use was to turn them over they would have acted as skid shoes and somewhat ineffective. For soft ground, the whole front edge would go into the ground as a spade.

 

I am not sure if the Scammell ones were only used spade down or turned over? I'm guessing the stiffener on the under side would potentially damage the tyre...?

 

 

I don't know about the Holmes ones, but the military type as shown for the Scammells and DTs were definitely designed to be used both ways up, one side for metalled surfaces, one side for soft surfaces - there are illustrations in the REME recovery manuals showing this.

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Trevor - it doesn't matter, what you are trying to do is stop the wheel turning if it has no/poor brakes and/or keep the wheel stationary over the spade so it pushes into the ground. Stopping the scotch from moving relative to the vehicle as a whole is the real goal.

The more inline the teather is to the wheel, the less it will try to twist under the tyre reducing effectiveness but as you can see from the Scammell pics, they use a long teather that goes way back on the chassis so the angle is reduced.

 

I just used the wheel to change the direction of the attachment - like a snatch block for side pulling - as I have a stout front bumper with shackle points. For me, going back to the chassis wasn't an option - too much stuff in the way.

 

 

Getting the length of the teather correct is however critical, that is why the Scammell vid is a great example. Note that they just added a couple of shackles.

For me - I use two chains each with a grab hook, that way I can adjust as necessary. Maybe one day I'll make a couple of cables...

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