racer Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 Hi Ben, Great work as usual, I hope you don't me throwing an idea into mix, because of the extensive corrosion on the casing, drilling and then bolting the new carrier to it may just break the weak alloy, how about making an "upper" carrier and then bolt the 2 new parts together around the casing's with maybe a cushioning material in between ? you are then just gripping the box with very little point loadings. Keep up the excellent workmanship, a very enjoyable read, thank you. Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenHawkins Posted February 7, 2016 Author Share Posted February 7, 2016 because of the extensive corrosion on the casing, drilling and then bolting the new carrier to it may just break the weak alloy, how about making an "upper" carrier and then bolt the 2 new parts together around the casing's with maybe a cushioning material in between ? you are then just gripping the box with very little point loadings. Actually that is a very good point. The upper casing has a mounting flange for a PTO box at the front. As it is the front mounting that is particularly bad I could make an additional bracket to fit to that as well. Now there are holes through the water jacket tops it was easier to clamp them on the mill to reduce them to nearly the correct height. Then back onto the surface grinder to tidy up the mating face. Followed by putting them side by side to grind the manifold connection so they are both exactly the same height. I then cut some rubber gaskets and tried them in place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenHawkins Posted February 7, 2016 Author Share Posted February 7, 2016 The paint had dried on the selector gate and steering box bracket so I bolted them into place. This also allowed me to line up the steering column and drill the bulkhead for the top bracket so I could bolt that in place as well. The rest of the weekend was spent cutting rectangles of brass and filing them to the correct size for bonnet hinges. A guillotine would be the right tool for the job but I don't have one. I have made 1/4 of the hinges required and now have a sore arm. I then lined them up on the bonnet, drilled through the laser cut holes in the bonnet side and secured them all in place with screws. Followed by withdrawing the hinge pin to separate the panels, reinserting the hinge pin to keep everything aligned and removing each screw in turn to replace it with a rivet. If I can't find a guillotine to borrow this week I think I will cut out lots of brass blanks with the angle grinder and put 20 or so in the machine vice at a time to mill them to size. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenHawkins Posted February 7, 2016 Author Share Posted February 7, 2016 I have started to look at the design of the body and made a quick sketch based on the information in the manuals and the photo as it left the Dennis factory. It looks like it should be a few inches taller than my garage door. The body construction is described as: "Sides and roof made of whitewood, ash framework, best finish. Top covered with zinc". There is obviously still quite a bit of work before I can write out a cutting list but I plan to copy the sizing of the ash frame from the plans for a postal delivery wagon in a July 1908 copy of "The Carriage Monthly" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BosunAl Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 How about posting the article? I think many of us would find it of interest. Bosun Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charawacky Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 Hi Ben Did the bonnet hinges have a slider pin and groove in the hinge butt to allow the bonnet pin to be slid into position when fitting the bonnet to the vehicle? I have seen this on a number of Edwardians. I noticed this on the Shuttleworth Crossley Staff Car and then found the same on my own vehicles. Certainly used on other vehicles of the period, due to my limited experience I am not so sure about the need on large lorries? The last image is my first attempt during another (none military but the same design) restoration, I find most things take at least 2 attempts unless your name is Steve or Tim! Ben is doing a fantastic job Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Bill Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 We were fortunate to have an original bonnet for the Dennis subsidy lorry but it was a bit battered with some broken hinges. To get it apart, I simply knocked the hinge pin through as it is a piece of brass tube pushed in. It is trapped when the bonnet is in place. I did mess the end up though and had to make an extension before it was put back! I must admit that I haven't seen this arrangement before. You learn something new every day! Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andypugh Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 It looks like it should be a few inches taller than my garage door. Just let the tyres down a bit :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Suslowicz Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 Just let the tyres down a bit :-) Or dig a couple of shallow trenches. Chris. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nz2 Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 You are not the only one with this problem in trying to store larger vehicles. Aside from have another set of smaller diameter wheels to soley move the vehicle into a low building, I have looked over the idea of altering the spring mounts to enable the chassis to be lowered on to the axle. What ever way it still requires some time in undoing bolts, moving hangers etc, then a re-assembly. Otherwise a re-design to the top of the framing over the door. Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andypugh Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 You are not the only one with this problem in trying to store larger vehicles. Aside from have another set of smaller diameter wheels to soley move the vehicle into a low building, I have looked over the idea of altering the spring mounts to enable the chassis to be lowered on to the axle. What ever way it still requires some time in undoing bolts, moving hangers etc, then a re-assembly. Otherwise a re-design to the top of the framing over the door. Doug From the drawing it looks like ballast tanks in the back of the truck might be a solution for Ben. Or, just make the truck a little shorter than original. I doubt that anyone would every guess. It isn't like you will ever park next to another one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenHawkins Posted February 14, 2016 Author Share Posted February 14, 2016 Hi Ben Did the bonnet hinges have a slider pin and groove in the hinge butt to allow the bonnet pin to be slid into position when fitting the bonnet to the vehicle? There is no sign of this on the drawings or on the surviving fire engine with a very similar bonnet. The drawing for my bonnet has not survived so I am merging the information from other drawings and photos. I have scanned the carriage monthly article. Before committing to changing the design of the body or removing the lintel over the garage door I think I will see how much the springs deflect when I start to load them by installing the transmission. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenHawkins Posted February 14, 2016 Author Share Posted February 14, 2016 At the start of the week I spoke to the proprietor of a local engineering company. They were extremely generous in letting me visit on Tuesday evening to use their guillotine. This is a fantastic machine and could happily cut 2m lengths of 4mm steel all day long. Obviously it made very easy work of my little bits of brass. 60 rectangles in the time it would have taken me to cut one out! I previously purchased a large piece of EN8 steel and have started to clean it up ready to make the rear universal joint. The inner profile of this will be quite a challenge to machine as it is a 6" long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenHawkins Posted February 14, 2016 Author Share Posted February 14, 2016 The glamorous assistant required some entertaining and dining this weekend but helped out in the garage for the rest of the weekend. I started on the replacement steering arm by facing and centre drilling a length of EN3 steel. Then turned the taper and thread on the end and checked it fitted the axle. Using a bent piece of welding rod to work out the approximate length required Then Sarah turned the diameter down for me. It needs a keyway adding to the taper before heating up and bending. Then it will need cutting off to length and a boss shaping for the ball joint to fit to. I need to machine a tapered socket for the ball joint and that is probably beyond the capabilities of my facilities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenHawkins Posted February 14, 2016 Author Share Posted February 14, 2016 Between Sarah and I we pressed all the rectangles into U shapes. Then into Ps Then drilled and screwed the hinge pieces into place, checking things looked right along the way. Then replaced the screws with rivets. I am sure that counts as a romantic valentines weekend! Hopefully I can finish the last few bits of half round edging over the next couple of evenings and get a coat of primer on before it all goes rusty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minesweeper Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 Well done, Ben and Sarah - that made me chuckle! Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
11th Armoured Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 Between Sarah and I we pressed all the rectangles into U shapes. Then into Ps Then drilled and screwed the hinge pieces into place, checking things looked right along the way. Then replaced the screws with rivets. I am sure that counts as a romantic valentines weekend! It's a labour of love, to be sure, so I'm certain it must count! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynx42 Rick Cove Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 I have a Sarah, but her name is Jill. I would be lost without her. Seems we are both extremely lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenHawkins Posted February 21, 2016 Author Share Posted February 21, 2016 I have a Sarah, but her name is Jill. I would be lost without her. Seems we are both extremely lucky. We certainly are! The evenings this week were all spent finishing the bonnet riveting and I have now managed to give the steel a coat of etch primer. That meant I could spend Saturday in London and return the borrowed riveter. Today was spent repairing my milling machine so I can use it for the propshaft work, when a couple of screws arrive I hope it can all go back together but until then the workshop if covered in bits of milling machine. Lunch times at work I finished machining the big lump of EN8 steel to length for the rear universal joint and I intend to take this to the local wire eroders tomorrow lunchtime and persuade them they want to cut the profile in the middle. The mating part gets pinned and brazed into the end of a piece of tube so I have faced off and centre drilled a blank for that as well. The exhaust gaskets arrived at the start of this week. I tried a few places in the UK but in the end had them made in Thailand for a very respectable price. I am still waiting for the "off the shelf" crush washers for the valve caps ordered from the UK on the same day! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenHawkins Posted February 21, 2016 Author Share Posted February 21, 2016 As it is starting to look a bit like a vehicle I am beginning to think about how to register it for use on the road. Obviously it would be great if we could reclaim the original registration. We know if was delivered to Ernest Shentall in Chesterfield and although the delivery date is not readable in the Dennis records the final month the order appears in the order books is January 1914 so it was must have been paid for before February 1914. I have assumed that it was therefore delivered in January 1914 but can't be completely certain. When Dennis registered vehicles for customers or when they were showing them at exhibitions they would often register them in Stockport to get the DB prefix to the registration number. These records survive but there is nothing that appears to tie in with this vehicle. Also there is a photo that was taken just prior to dispatch and Dennis had not painted the number plates suggesting Ernest Shentall had not registered it prior to delivery. Derby City appears to have used the CH prefix and again these records seem to have survived in their entirety in the Derbyshire records in Matlock and we visited these a couple of years ago but the rest of Derbyshire started with the R prefix and it would seem this is the most likely place for Ernest Shentall to have registered this van. Sarah and I booked Thursday off work and visited the Kithead Trust in Droitwich. They are custodians of the Derbyshire vehicle registration cards and we did not really know what to expect from them. The card index seems to have been made in 1921 and therefore only shows those still registered there at the time. This card seemed to be the nearest match (R1693): But according to the period catalogues the chassis weight was 2tons 2cwt without the body so was probably under 3 ton unladen weight with the body. It is a shame around fifty per cent of the 1914 period cards were void and it does not really help narrow the search down at all. The trust volunteers were very helpful and it is great they have been able to save so many documents like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenHawkins Posted February 28, 2016 Author Share Posted February 28, 2016 On Monday lunchtime I dropped off the block of EN8 at the wire eroders so they could cut the internal profile. It took 30 hours to cut the profile (due to the depth of the socket), but the machines can run completely unattended. They can even rethread the copper wire if it breaks. I have also finished turning the diameters for the male part. This needs the large end making spherical then cross drilling to accept a piece of 1-1/8 bar. I hope to make the end spherical using the boring head and rotary table on the milling machine. I purchased this several years ago with many parts missing but think I now have it working well enough to attempt this job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenHawkins Posted February 28, 2016 Author Share Posted February 28, 2016 Having cut a keyway and made a key for the steering arm the next step was to bend it. I borrowed some oxy-acetylene equipment to warm it up and had my glamorous assistant apply the leverage via a long piece of angle iron clamped to it. I then brought it back home to check against the chassis and mark up for the next bend. This is the track rod I intend to use. It is the later type with pinch bolts to lock off the adjustment rather than lock nuts. When I take it apart I will see if it is easily converted to the earlier type. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenHawkins Posted February 28, 2016 Author Share Posted February 28, 2016 Every so often I find I can't move because I am surrounded by lorry parts. So in addition to putting up some shelves one of todays tasks was to do something about it. For example I made up the gaskets for the sump. Then bolted it into place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asciidv Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 I like houses that have 3 Phase Electricity! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andypugh Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 I like houses that have 3 Phase Electricity! But, quite bizarrely, it is something that Estate Agents never seem to mention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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