87 ET 77 Militant

[militant-nick]

What are folks opinions & experiences on the circular reflectors being painted or staying with the white backing? The bodyshop sprayed the ones that were on but I've now added new as you can see by the contrasting white colour - looking at the few in service images on google they appear to have been left white? I have enough to replace the painted ones if I go that route...

[Iain Crosbie]

Here are some pics of the battery box arrangement in my truck, which I cannot vouch for as being original. The exterior of my cab roof was glassed over in a previous ownership (quite well, as it happens) so this has lost the roof vent, which I assume was to vent the batteries via some kind of trunking, thus avoiding cab explosions while the crew smoked! I have never seen any pictures of what the original fitment might have looked like, but the other Iain may know from either of the trucks he has in his collection. The cable you see does seem to be for a boiling vessel, but I suspect from the amateurish way that it was connected that this was an unofficial optional extra!

[militant-nick]

Red lever behind the drivers seat Iain - for winch/crane hydraulics? Not seen it done like that before...

[ploughman]

What are folks opinions & experiences on the circular reflectors being painted or staying with the white backing? The bodyshop sprayed the ones that were on but I've now added new as you can see by the contrasting white colour - looking at the few in service images on google they appear to have been left white? I have enough to replace the painted ones if I go that route...

[ATTACH=CONFIG]116774[/ATTACH]

Just wondering where the stowage is for the ground anchor pins?

Would have thought that they would be close to the anchor plates.

[militant-nick]

Just wondering where the stowage is for the ground anchor pins?

Would have thought that they would be close to the anchor plates.

 

Behind the little fold down flap with the amber reflector Bryan, now has a squires padlock on it as I have almost the full compliment of pins.

[Mk3iain]

Here are some pics of the battery box arrangement in my truck, which I cannot vouch for as being original. The exterior of my cab roof was glassed over in a previous ownership (quite well, as it happens) so this has lost the roof vent, which I assume was to vent the batteries via some kind of trunking, thus avoiding cab explosions while the crew smoked! I have never seen any pictures of what the original fitment might have looked like, but the other Iain may know from either of the trucks he has in his collection. The cable you see does seem to be for a boiling vessel, but I suspect from the amateurish way that it was connected that this was an unofficial optional extra![ATTACH=CONFIG]116775[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]116776[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]116777[/ATTACH]

 

I have not seen a BV cable on these before like that. I have fitted mine with one but I am using a control box for the BV, there needs to be a way of switching it on and off. I am sure it is not a standard fit.

Iain, the original vented type batteries would I think vent through the two small holes in the rear of the cab on the bikini line.:-D The roof vent is just a fresh air vent for the cab, similar ones were used on other trucks. Is yours missing?

 

Iain

[Mk3iain]

Sunny photos, still need to paint the grill green, reflectors, step guard & marker boards now on. Oxy cabinet & Jerry can holder next then passenger seat & reconfigure the batteries in the cab, then a lick of paint in there should almost complete it.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]116722[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]116723[/ATTACH]

 

That colour looks good in the sunshine, a really nice job!

[militant-nick]

That colour looks good in the sunshine, a really nice job!

 

 

Thanks Iain

[Iain Crosbie]

Iain,

 

The roof vent is still intact internally, but has been glassed over on the outside. I just assumed the plug was for a boiling vessel, but it may have been for a radio, although as I said it just went straight on to the battery, which I can't imagine would have been approved. I must have a look for the vents you speak of, I can't say I have noticed them before. The way AEC and Park Royal built the cabs I'd have thought the last thing you needed was a vent!

[simon jameson]

I like the white backing on the reflectors I think it looks neater, all my reflector backings were left white when I painted my milly.

[Morris C8]

What are folks opinions & experiences on the circular reflectors being painted or staying with the white backing? The bodyshop sprayed the ones that were on but I've now added new as you can see by the contrasting white colour - looking at the few in service images on google they appear to have been left white? I have enough to replace the painted ones if I go that route...

[ATTACH=CONFIG]116774[/ATTACH]

 

Here are some of my photos from my collection that might help.

Keith

[militant-nick]

I like the white backing on the reflectors I think it looks neater, all my reflector backings were left white when I painted my milly.

 

thanks Simon, noted

[militant-nick]

Here are some of my photos from my collection that might help.

Keith

 

Thanks Keith, more evidence suggesting white then

[robin craig]

I think the white or painted question is down to the level of laziness by the painter who had two options, remove them or mask the reflector and get on with it. Darn easy to mask them and save the hassle of removing seized machine screws etc.

 

That is my humble (am I being pedantic on this?) summation.

 

I still say the Militant recovery (was wrecker but edited by author afterwards) with those tyres has a presence that just says business in a manner few others can equal.

 

Wonderful thread

Edited July 7, 2016 by robin craig

[ArtistsRifles]

I think the white or painted question is down to the level of laziness by the painter who had two options, remove them or mask the reflector and get on with it. Darn easy to mask them and save the hassle of removing seized machine screws etc.

 

That is my humble (am I being pedantic on this?) summation.

 

I still say the Militant wrecker with those tyres has a presence that just says business in a manner few others can equal.

 

Wonderful thread

 

Not sure the term "Masking up" ever appeared in Sevices vocabulary. Missing it with the brush was the accepted method of not painting anything in the Seventies!! :cool2:

[radiomike7]

I think the white or painted question is down to the level of laziness by the painter who had two options, remove them or mask the reflector and get on with it. Darn easy to mask them and save the hassle of removing seized machine screws etc.

 

That is my humble (am I being pedantic on this?) summation.

 

I still say the Militant wrecker with those tyres has a presence that just says business in a manner few others can equal.

 

Wonderful thread

 

I'm with you 100% Robin on the reflectors and other items such as the windscreen rubbers and tyres which so often get blathered in paint due to laziness.

 

However while we are talking pedantic I must remind you that the REME never operated wreckers, they were always recovery or breakdown vehicles.

[militant-nick]

Sounds like the Mili represents an in service one as is then in this regard

[10FM68]

The rule of thumb would probably be: if you are restoring a vehicle to its original colour, as it left the factory, which, given the age of the Milly Mk3 would probably have been DBG, then leaving the little details in their original colour would be correct because they wouldn't have been fitted when the main panels were sprayed. But, once in a unit, the likelihood is that, unless there was a reason for leaving something untouched, it would probably be painted along with the rest of the vehicle. Masking of small things such as lights and reflectors was often done with a smear of grease, particularly if using a spray gun, otherwise it was a case of avoiding things with the brush. Remember, the soldiers with the paint weren't trying to make the vehicle look Gucci, they were trying to camouflage it, so wouldn't want anything bright, or to stand out - so, for example, they painted over the galvanised bumpers and other fittings on Land Rovers, makers' names and so on. (And, of course, vehicle painting wasn't a favourite pastime so they wanted to get it finished quickly and with as little messing about as possible).

 

An exception is, of course, the tin of red paint which, in a few units, might be brought out to titivate a vehicle for a parade or inspection, or because an MT NCO thought it looked good - so tow hooks might go red, as might makers' names, the odd set of wheel nuts and so on, but, this was frowned on - the rule was that these ought to have been left in matt green or black according to where they fell in the camouflage pattern. Canvas was generally left unpainted (though the RAF Regiment seemed to like painting their tilts). And the black stripes of the camouflage on larger vehicles, such as Millies, often didn't extend over the roof, but stopped at the top of the vertical panels - the idea being that, as it wouldn't be visible to inspecting NCOs, it could be safely ignored. I'm not sure many of us had a great deal of faith in the value of the black and green camouflage anyway. A day or two on exercise in the countryside and just about everything was covered in dust and mud and no differentiation between the colours remained.

 

And the paint on heavy working vehicles such as recovery vehicles (yeay Radiomike!! At last! NOT "wreckers" in the British Army) - came in for a lot of abuse and the IRR matt paint was very prone to staining from grease and so on and the mud became ingrained and was hard to get out. A lot of stuff usually ended up being re-painted every year after the autumn exercise because everything looked so shabby - it was a right pain.

 

10 68 PS, meant to say - what a lovely job! Looks superb!

Edited July 6, 2016 by 10FM68

[ArtistsRifles]

<snipped>

An exception is, of course, the tin of red paint which, in a few units, might be brought out to titivate a vehicle for a parade or inspection, or because an MT NCO thought it looked good - so tow hooks might go red, as might makers' names, the odd set of wheel nuts and so on, but, this was frowned on - the rule was that these ought to have been left in matt green or black according to where they fell in the camouflage pattern. Canvas was generally left unpainted (though the RAF Regiment seemed to like painting their tilts). And the black stripes of the camouflage on larger vehicles, such as Millies, often didn't extend over the roof, but stopped at the top of the vertical panels - the idea being that, as it wouldn't be visible to inspecting NCOs, it could be safely ignored. I'm not sure many of us had a great deal of faith in the value of the black and green camouflage anyway. A day or two on exercise in the countryside and just about everything was covered in dust and mud and no differentiation between the colours remained.</snipped>

 

The only things that should be red always were the nuts (or wheel stud ends) or the ends of the springs that held split rims together. We used to paint the hitches red because it bloody hurt when you walked into them so the red was a chance to avoid the sods. FV6xx series pretty much always had the white line across the hub centres. Some vehicles had the covers on the NATO electrical plug covers painted yellow for 12v or blue for 24v - but not all.

Anything else was "tarting up time" - esp, white wheel nuts :-) - and avoided as much as possible.

[10FM68]

The only things that should be red always were the nuts (or wheel stud ends) or the ends of the springs that held split rims together. We used to paint the hitches red because it bloody hurt when you walked into them so the red was a chance to avoid the sods. FV6xx series pretty much always had the white line across the hub centres. Some vehicles had the covers on the NATO electrical plug covers painted yellow for 12v or blue for 24v - but not all.

Anything else was "tarting up time" - esp, white wheel nuts :-) - and avoided as much as possible.

 

You're right about split rims - there were a few others which were official: white was used for lifting eyes - particularly on engineer plant, diesel filler caps, when the fleet was still mixed, were yellow, as were air hose connections (emergency ones were red). But, I was told that towing eyes, in particular, should be left in bare metal and lightly greased so that their condition could be easily checked, though, to be honest, I didn't see many like that. Most were in natural black or green - I'm afraid red painted ones were rather looked down on and I don't recall painted electrical sockets at the time, once the old metal screw-in ones, which, I'm sure were yellow even on 24V FFR Land Rovers - I don't recall blue, had disappeared.

 

British military vehicles, since the demise of DBG, have been decidedly drab and, quite often, pretty scruffy. And there wasn't much standardisation - some units, for example, used very large stick-on numbers for the tyre pressures. Usually applied wonky (wonkily?) they looked dreadful, but, for a restorer, they're authentic, if not regulation. The Polish MSO tank-transporter regiment painted bumper ends in red and white and, of course, various units adopted dayglow symbols in the top corner of passenger windscreens (red dayglow became available to lots of units after the fire strike as it was issued to add to the sides of Green Goddesses - I still have a roll in the garage.) But, no, white wheel nuts were rare on IRR painted vehicles - but probably less rare than ropes wrapped round front bumpers! Ouch!

 

10 68

[ArtistsRifles]

Yeah - towing eyes were invariably in vehicle colour - but the Dixon Bate hitches were coated red. Most of our vehicles had them fore and aft and on a dark night it was too easy not to see it only to be reminder by an agonising pain as you walked into it on stag at 02:00 ish. Location of which varied depending on whether it was a Landie, 4 tonner or 10 tonner.

You might be right about the electrical plug covers - thinking back it may well have been yellow for 24v and blue 12v. More often than not only the 24v ones were painted. I only ever saw the large rubber push-in plugs.

 

Fuel filler caps - yes, usually painted although we only painted the fillers for petrol vehicles red. If it wasn't red it was Derv (although the filler invariably had "DERV" painted adjacent to it). As a rule of thumb Landies and RL's were petrol, MK's and AEC's were diesel. Staff cars (Escort estates, Landcrabs) were petrol and unmarked.

 

Agree with the demise of DBG - the IRR green then the green and black that followed attracted grease and ****e like no tomorrow and whereas DBG would wipe clean the matt or silk finishes would not. It was also easer to identify units to by the corps and divisional signs. Too easy for the bad guys too I guess which is why they got scrapped apart from parade and recruiting vehicles. Trying to work out what something like 1/659 painted on a wing meant was a nightmare. Luckily the Artists Rifles never carried insignia or markings of any kind other than fuel, chalk and TP markings. Still toying with the idea of painting my Militant in DBG once the welding up is finished.

[militant-nick]

Thanks Gents, all info is useful info - is there a supplier for the TP numbers you know of?

[ArtistsRifles]

Thanks Gents, all info is useful info - is there a supplier for the TP numbers you know of?

 

Try Colin Voss from EMLRA - you can find him on eBay, seller ID is mattblack2003

[militant-nick]

Try Colin Voss from EMLRA - you can find him on eBay, seller ID is mattblack2003

 

Thanks, good shout - plenty of useful stuff on there 👍.

 

I keep reffering ring back to this image from miliblog.co.uk, did many trucks have a shipping stencil on the driver's door? As I can see no reference to mine having left the UK, it may not be applicable to mine?

[robin craig]

Dear Nick,

 

I think you have to have to decide what you want the vehicle to look like based on your research, however, and it is a big one, in all my years of making scale models and working and playing with the life sized vehicles there is always a picture somewhere that will either contradict or prove what you want to do, likely it will only come to light after you finish.

 

While there are many rules and regulations and customary habits and practices, somewhere, sometime, someone will have deviated and someone will have snapped a picture.

 

That all being said and known, it really ruins all that work when a vehicle is displayed (take note) with everything correct to the umpteenth degree and then the owner leaves the civvy plates on!

 

It is your wagon and it is yours to enjoy, do your best and regardless someone will pick holes in it but don't worry just enjoy your wagon. Worst case, you can paint it over again in 3 years!