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Simca Marmon SUMB MH600BS No. 18595


g0ozs
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As some of you may know I refurbished and used to own a V8 Petrol SUMB KSJ141 which I sold about 18 months ago prior to moving house. I have always regretted that and I recently had the opportunity to purchase a replacement which is available to work on and close to my new home. The "new" vehicle has been fitted with a Volvo diesel engine and auto box and was used for extreme off-roading and has therefore been stripped of its tilt, hoops and many minor fittings. I now have about 3 months to make it roadworthy and relocate it to my own premises. This will be a restoration rather than a refurbishment so I thought I would start a topic here to record progress and seek advice.

 

To start, here are a couple of photos of the new SUMB:

 

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And this is where I hope to end up:

 

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At the moment I am starting on the electrics (which is my professional background so easiest for me) and have retrieved the dashboard boxes (all easily detatchable and surprisingly all made of plastic) to start assembling a new wiring harness as most of the original lighting has been removed and many of the wiring harness connectors are corroded and/or crushed beyond reuse, and I am in negotiations with a local forum member to get a replacement hoop and tilt made.

 

Iain

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A question for our French members - is there any readily available source of vehicle history for French military vehicles in the way there is for the UK?

 

I have the serial number 18595 but not the French military registration number. The vehicle appears to have been fitted for an antenna base on the left hand side of the cab and has a mostly intact radio junction box in the rear.

 

Thanks in advance

 

Iain

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  • 3 weeks later...

I think this is the "To Do" list so far

 

1) New lighting to get it home legally (it is road registered as a 1959 goods vehicle on V112G) - on a first inspection only the RH front indicator worked and there was a trailer board in place of the rear lights! I have bought a set of e-marked truck rear lights on e-Bay and I have to hand a set of Britax front side/indicator lights. The headlight bowls are the same size as classic range rover (I know because I swapped the original French LHD ones with range rover ones on my last SUMB to pass a MOT) and I have a spare pair of sealed beam light units if I need them. I'll take the chance to add reversing and fog lights at the same time. Of course the diesel now fitted to the truck came with a 12V alternator, glow plugs and starter so I will end up using 12V bulbs throughout which means new 2x current rated cables throughout too. The exceptions will be the gauges and the wiper motor which I intend to run from 12V>24V solid state converters. I intend to swap the original 20-0-20 ammeter for a voltmeter to simplify the dashboard wiring and fit a new Hella combined 12V switch and flasher/hazard unit in the large empty space in the brake pressure meter box.

 

2) Necessary to achieve (1) is complete rewiring - I've been busy on e-Bay stockpiling all the bits and will document what I've used as and when I get things working. The original engine compartment mounted fuse / junction box was removed by the previous owner to facilitate getting the new engine in, and I intend to build a new one in the less hostile environment of the cab - there is a convenient space in front of the battery box where the gear lever used to be!. I expect to salvage the dashboard instrument and switch boxes as they are intact and hopefully all of the Jaeger 3-terminal meters - failing that I have found a source of replacements at http://www.etbinstruments.com/ETB_Gauge_Price_List.htm. I will change the 24V illumination (the Jaeger meters have side windows rather than internal bulbs) for 12V LED lamps.

 

3) Refit the original fuel tank. The previous owner used a small motorsport one in the pickup body. I think I have found some suitable Bedford fuel tank straps on e-bay but I need to measure before I pay. What I dont know yet if there is a working fuel pump or it relied on gravity feed after the conversion - something to check next visit!

 

4) Secure the side panels of the rear body as the bolts are missing and only gravity is keeping them there.

 

5) Most of the fittings under the rear body were cut away but are still available from the previous owner. I will need to get the jerry can rack, and tool rack sand blasted and repainted (does anyone recommend a good place in Bury St Edmunds or Ipswich for that ?). The tool boxes behind the rear wheels either side are a bit too far gone but I found some strong steel lockers on e-Bay that are just slightly smaller and will be used as attachment points for the new rear light clusters.

 

6) Cosmetic welding around the wheel arches - this seems to be a classic failure mode for the SUMB but is relatively easy to as it is accessible from both sides.

 

7) Get and fit new tilt hoops - this is going to be more complicated than it should be because the pillars at the tailgate end and sides of the load bed to which the original hoops were pinned have been cut down flush with the side panels. I intend to follow the pattern of the "90 Ampere" radio SUMB which is taller (1.7m vs 1.3m with wood rather than canvas front and back ends) so I can stand up and it is secure.

 

8) I already got a replacement tail gate (wanted more for the steps than anything else) but will need to wait on the repairs to the pillars at the back of the pickup body to be able to fit it.

 

9) Get a new tilt made and fitted

 

10) New passenger side window glass

 

11) New passenger side wiper blade

 

12) New Battery Tray

 

I have promised to move the vehicle at the end of June latest so I will be concentrating on the electrics first - I have brought the instrument panel boxes home for refurbishment and the next step is to assemble the complete wiring harness on the floor to be able to test it before going on site to install everything.

 

Iain

Edited by g0ozs
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Made a start on stripping and rewiring the control boxes - because the harness plugs were left loose and got dirty and corroded I'm going to have to change them as well as change the lamps for 12V versions. As of now the speedometer box is stripped and I'm hoping to finish the air pressure and main switch boxes later today. Hopefully I can salvage the main light switch but I have durite replacements for the others which dont feel right.

 

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Air Pressure Box

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Main dial box - already stripped - ammeter out ready to fit voltmenter

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main switch box

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Inside the main switch box

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Under the main switch box - anyone know what these connectors are called ?

I'm unable to find a source and they are all different pin layouts anyway so I plan on using modern molexesDSCN9342.jpg

Back of instrument panel

DSCN9348.jpg

Inside the air pressure box - plenty of room for the new flasher switch and unit

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Congrats

 

I been seeing a lot of Sumb stuff on leboncoin http://www.leboncoin.fr/collection/631527270.htm?ca=16_s and some of the electrical stuff comes up on ebay by searching Gabriel Lyon http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/121083762360?_trksid=p2055120.m1438.l2648&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

 

I'll keep and eye out as I am always trawling the French sites looking for Acmat bits

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Mike

 

Thanks. I've had stuff from rf-parts for radio purposes before but I didnt realise he sold vehicle bits !

 

This looks more like the switch in the original circuit diagram in MAT3437 with 8 terminals than my one

 

c-de-a.png

 

I need to extract the one in mine which has a lot more terminals and figure out which ones do what I need - I really only want it to control side/head lights and tail lights (I don't plan to replace the IR or convoy lights and I don't think I should let the indicators and brake lights be possible to switch off as is the case with the original SUMB wiring). I will probably end up using a relay to actually switch the head lights as 12V operation implies double current and I have a 12V 30A relay somewhere.

 

Regards

 

Iain

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  • 4 weeks later...

Found a good (if not cheap) new source of the 2 Pin 200A slave/jumpstart connectors to replace the one missing from the new SUMB

 

http://www.hc-cargo.com/default.aspx?id=107&search=Nato%20Plug

http://www.hc-cargo.com/default.aspx?id=107&search=Nato%20Socket

 

They are also available via e-Bay as items 111070807509 and 111072349939 which is how I found them - ordered on Sunday and arrived today (Tuesday) very well packed. The actual items are made in China and branded Erich Jaeger GMBH if that helps anyone.

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Found a good (if not cheap) new source of the 2 Pin 200A slave/jumpstart connectors to replace the one missing from the new SUMB

 

http://www.hc-cargo.com/default.aspx?id=107&search=Nato%20Plug

http://www.hc-cargo.com/default.aspx?id=107&search=Nato%20Socket

 

They are also available via e-Bay as items 111070807509 and 111072349939 which is how I found them - ordered on Sunday and arrived today (Tuesday) very well packed. The actual items are made in China and branded Erich Jaeger GMBH if that helps anyone.

 

That's really interesting as I have the inter-vehicle cable and I didn't want the cut the ends off to make a separate jumper lead set. With my Pinzgauer I had the Bosch 24v electric wheel spanner (never should of sold that).

 

I see nearly all the French trucks have the same light switch as saw one listed as surplus of a trm 2000 yesterday.

 

'If' I get my spare cab you can have the wing mirror mounts (if you want them) as saw at least one in the photo of the wreck. I just hope I can actually buy the wreck...... It is for sale, we know the price but finalizing the deal is measured in glacial flow velocities. Even flashing cash in front of the scrapyard dealer doesn't invoke any increase in speed. The xmod has new mirrors or you can have my old ones if you feel like a challenge.

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Mike

 

Thanks - I will be interested in the mirror holders if (OK let us be optimists - when) you get them back to the UK. I fitted Hymer motor caravan mirrors on my previous SUMB as I appreciated the better vision when driving - the original small SUMB mirrors were only good directly behind.

 

Iain

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PS a postscript on mirrors - the ones fitted are not original and one needs a new glass - does anyone recognise what they came from so I can see what E-Bay has to offer ?

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Mike

 

Thanks - I will be interested in the mirror holders if (OK let us be optimists - when) you get them back to the UK. I fitted Hymer motor caravan mirrors on my previous SUMB as I appreciated the better vision when driving - the original small SUMB mirrors were only good directly behind.

 

Iain

 

yep here's hoping as nearly a week has gone by after my last reminder :yawn:

 

I am in Paris at the end of June, I wonder if the missus will understand a burning need to go to a junkyard in the South West of France :-D

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The diesel transplant changed the electrical system from 24V to 12V and most of the instruments and lighting were disconnected (as the new Volvo/Volkswagen D24T engine has 12V sensors). The diesel also occupies some of the space formerly used by the main fuse box/junction box of the SUMB to the left of the engine.

 

To address the problem I've now made up a relay box and fuse box to fit over the absent gear lever hole and on the front bulkhead respectively. The next visit will be to install these in the truck next week some time I hope.

 

Relay Box (includes main MIDI fuses for all non-starting loads):

Cable entry via floor for power from battery and to engine solenoid, pump and fan

Cable exit via flexible conduit to fuse box

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Fuse Box to fit on front panel to right of dash board

M6 holes will be attachment to bulkhead and the bolts will double as earth studs as there is good rust free metal there.

Cables with waterproof plugs at far end go to to dashboard boxes (air, meters, switches) through glands

4th gland is for cable to lighting junction box in engine compartment

Small glands for 2 wire cables to wiper motor and floor button dip switch

Relays are for headlights as original switches were for 24v so may not handle 2 x current at 12V

IMG_1971.jpg

IMG_1972.jpg

2 x Hella/DIN 16A sockets on front panel

IMG_1977.jpg

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I've now received salvage fuel tank supports and straps from RR Services (thanks Kerry!)

 

IMG_1988.jpg

 

I also have some NOS Bedford straps which I will probably get shortened and use instead of the originals

 

IMG_1990.jpg

 

Does anyone know a sandblaster around Bury St Edmunds, Ipswich or Stowmarket who could clean up the tank supports for me ? It would seem a pity not to take the chance to paint them properly prior to fitting !

 

Iain

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More questions in the hope of advice from those who have done similar jobs before:

 

Before refitting the original fuel tank (which was used with Petrol for the V8) I need to clean it. Does anyone have any experience of using a former petrol tank for diesel - I think it's had more than a year to dry out and I cant hear anything solid rattling around inside (so half suspect the fuel gauge float will be stuck as it was on my old SUMB until I went over a speed bump ;) ) Is it better to use hot water & detergent or clean petrol or clean diesel ?

 

Does anyone know the current rating of typical diesel heater plugs? This engine is a Volvo (Volkswagen) D24T similar to that in the Pinzgauer TD I think. The relay I bought is good for 200A but the existing wire looks a bit thin (2.5mm sq I think).

 

What is the current rating of the starter motor solenoid ? I bought a new ignition key switch rated at 8 amps - will I need a relay ?

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Of the scrap man doing something this year ?

 

you are most likely right:

 

- Coma who apparently confirmed they have 2 Acmat 6x6 wrecks but then don't respond, to anyone http://www.coma-rene-metaux.fr/

 

- This one never leaves Leboncoin http://www.leboncoin.fr/utilitaires/254 ... tm?ca=16_s I don't think he really wants to sell it icon_rolleyes.gif

 

very frustrating month.

 

Is this antenna mount Sumb? As I have not seen it one on an Acmat http://www.leboncoin.fr/collection/657627134.htm?ca=16_s

 

 

Does anyone know the current rating of typical diesel heater plugs? This engine is a Volvo (Volkswagen) D24T similar to that in the Pinzgauer TD I think. The relay I bought is good for 200A but the existing wire looks a bit thin (2.5mm sq I think).

 

What is the current rating of the starter motor solenoid ? I bought a new ignition key switch rated at 8 amps - will I need a relay ?

 

I can send you the wiring diagram for a TD Pinzgauer. Just don't order anything with 'Pinzgauer' in the parts names as they are completely different from the Volvo/VW D24.......................................................in price

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Mike

 

The TD Pinz wiring diagram would be useful. The vendor of my SUMB fitted a D24T ex Volvo 740 with an auto box (necessary because the D24 is much longer than the original ford V8 and the manual gear lever would be too far behind the driver).

 

The antenna support is interesting - I have never seen one like that on a SUMB -it looks like it is intended to clamp over the top of a tube around 25-30mm diameter. I have seen something similar on a P4 but not mounted that way. It looks quite modern - possibly from RITA (the French Ptarmigan) rather than a combat net radio. In all the photos and MAT documents I have seen in the 80s and 90s the SUMB had the antenna base for TR-PP-13 or RITA mounted to an angle bracket behind the door on each side of the cab - my new one is drilled for those both sides and I have one (and a suitable antenna) in stock. The original 1960s American radio fit (VRC9/VRC10/VRC18) had metal poles at the four corners of the body which had old jeep-style antenna bases mounted to a flat plate at the top - see http://www.g0ozs.org/marmon for some photos. The French did use a sectional steel mast that bolted to the front bumper of the SUMB and was about 6 metres high - I wonder if this was intended to fit the more modern antennas at the top of the mast ?

 

I have always been put off Leboincoin by my lack of French - I studied German at school and worked in Germany for a while so should have got interested in mogs ;) Does one just click the "Envoyer un email" link and try to compose a message with the help of google translate ?

 

Regards

 

Iain

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I have always been put off Leboincoin by my lack of French - I studied German at school and worked in Germany for a while so should have got interested in mogs ;) Does one just click the "Envoyer un email" link and try to compose a message with the help of google translate ?

 

 

 

70% never reply. Online translators offend them :nut:

 

If they do respond most are helpful. Ebay France generally is good as everyone is locked in.

 

For French Vehicle rebuilds this place is useful for pictures etc http://www.avem86forum.com/

 

hopefully the 12v diagram is attached

 

[ATTACH]91512[/ATTACH]

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Mike

 

Thanks for the diagram. The Pinz seems to have 2 groups of 3 heaters (Vorgluehanlage) with a 50A fuse each - the existing electrics as I found the conversion look a bit under-rated now ! On investigation elsewhere the Bosch glow plug used seems to be rated at 12 amps.

 

Iain

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Got the fuel tank supports back from shot-blasting (I used http://suffolkblastclean.com/shot.html at Stonham Aspal) today:

 

IMG_1998.jpg

I was surprised to find that the rust had eaten all the way through in places - I think I will need to get fresh metal welded on if they are to last another 5 decades, but they will get the tank back on and the truck home first.

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Edited by g0ozs
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  • 2 weeks later...

This week I have refitted the original fuel tank.

 

First paint the tank, supports, and chassis that will be inaccessible once it is fitted:

 

IMG_2177.jpg

 

Tape webbing round the tank to replace the original felt padding under the straps

IMG_2189.jpg

 

 

Fit the straps to the fuel tank supports

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Bolt the supports to the chassis

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Finally mount the tank on its supports and tighten the straps

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  • 3 months later...

I didnt get much done this summer unfortunately due to work, family and a bad reaction to hay fever pills. I did get lucky with http://hmvf.co.uk/forumvb/showthread.php?46172-Simca-Marmon-MH600-(breaking-for-Spares) replacements for most of the rusty bits on No. 18595 :) I also have workshop facilities on a farm converted to industrial units near Stowmarket (with spray painters on site ! ) and hope to be posting more updates over the winter. All that remains is to resolve an issue with the V5, pay up, and get it recovered to the farm. Here are some pics of the newly acquired bits now in the painting queue:

 

 

Rust Free unbroken front windows

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Right Door

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Mirrors (new pattern with hinge and room for a blind spot mirror below)

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Cab Floor free of rust

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Sides (x 2) with minor repairable rust IMG_2809.jpg

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Tailgate (purchased earlier from a seller in Kent) needing some welding

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Tool Rack not rusted to flakes

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I also got a spare set of instrument panels from the one in Aldershot and a tilt from R&R services over the summer which will need minor repairs but I still haven't managed to source the hoops - if anyone on here has a SUMB and can measure them accurately I would be ever so grateful.

 

The front end of the body and the seating on the one at Aldershot are different from any SUMB I ever saw before - I suspect it was intended as a roll bar of sorts and I may do something similar for mine.

 

IMG_2785.jpg

IMG_2787.jpg

 

That the seat is original and fits leads me to believe that this is an in-service modification.

 

 

Iain

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