Approx year & pattern style for Para smock - please!!!!

[Majortom]

Hi,

Haven't posted anything for a long while, but recently bought this smock & curiosity has got the best of me. Can anyone shed some light on what pattern it is & an approx manufacturing guidelines to which years it could have beenmade , I think its 1968 DPM Pattern but I can't make my mind up- so see what you think - Thanks in advance

 

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]89293[/ATTACH]

 

 

 

 

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]89292[/ATTACH]

 

 

 

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]89291[/ATTACH]

Edited April 2, 2014 by Majortom

[Davey089]

Wrong pattern for a 68 it also has the 3 buttons around the collar to attach a hood. It looks like a 90's its got the FFD pouch on the sleeve. Just put up a pic of the 68 pattern for reference .

[Majortom]

Hi,

Thanks for the info had a feeling I couldn't get lucky enough to get a 68 at a boot sale but will keep your photo to hand for future referance - thanks again

[Davey089]

Hi,

Thanks for the info had a feeling I couldn't get lucky enough to get a 68 at a boot sale but will keep your photo to hand for future referance - thanks again

 

Happy to help.Far and few between and when they do turn up daft money seems to change hands

[Scotch Harry]

No such thing as a 68 Patt Para Smock Im afraid and with that plastic zip would say very very late date wise.

[Davey089]

No such thing as a 68 Patt Para Smock Im afraid and with that plastic zip would say very very late date wise.

 

Really ? I made the above comments from what I know as in the Pattern Reference, so after your comments I looked it up .68 pattern "combat" smocks were in use and worn by the Parachute regiment in the Falklands, whether they were called "Para Smock" or "Combat Smock" ? The 77 to 78 Para Smock used the 68 Pattern print .

 

1966 Patt = 1st GS DPM Jacket - issued briefly to ABF as *trials* kit

1968 Patt = 2nd GS DPM Jacket - issued only to ABF recruits

 

1st Para Smock - *no* FFD pocket on right arm, issued mid-late 1970s

2nd Para Smock - FFD pocket on right arm, issued early/mid 1980s

Trials Para Smock - Darker DPM, issued early 1990s

 

Replacing the Pattern 1960 Combat Uniform was the Pattern 1968 (P68). The uniform had a number of modifications based on the experience with the Pattern 60 as well as additional items such as a detachable hood, peaked field cap and lined cold weather cap. The P68 uniform was worn by British troops during the Falklands War (1982). Early versions of the DPM Parachutist's Smock (1977 or 78) were also manufactured in this time period, using the same camouflage print. Several colour variations of DPM have been documented on this uniform,

Edited April 3, 2014 by Davey089

[Enfield1940]

No such thing as "68 Pattern print" or "1966 Patt" either...

 

I can't see a maker name on the label, so I'd say the Para Smock was post-1995.

[WCMatt]

Just wondering alloud here, but did the MOD still issue the "para smock" that late (1990s)? I would have thought that peice of clothing would have been phased out back in the 60s/70s. As for the plastic zip, could it have been a repair/replacement done later on while still in service?

 

Matt

[Enfield1940]

Somewhat improbably they are still issuing the 'Smock, Parachutists', but in the new MTP camo.

 

See chap on right:

 

http://i46.servimg.com/u/f46/16/96/35/07/53541510.jpg

[Scotch Harry]

Para smocks were on issue right until DPM was phased out and are still a sought after item and now made in MTP by a few contractors but to my limited knowledge no longer an issue item but private purchase unofficial items.

 

As for the plastic zip on the one pictured,if it was an old smock,yes it could be a replacement but seeing as the smock is in such good condition,would bet that its the original zip.

[Enfield1940]

There's a couple here with contract codes on the labels:

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Issued-MTP-para-smock-180-104-large-/360891724804?pt=UK_Collectables_Militaria_LE&hash=item5406d2b404

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RARE-GENUINE-BRITISH-ARMY-ISSUE-MTP-CAMO-PARA-SMOCK-LARGE-190-112-UNISSUED-/281301061458?pt=UK_Collectables_Militaria_LE&hash=item417ed98f52

 

Or are these likely to be spurious?

[Scotch Harry]

The labels look legit?

 

Not into the modern stuff so not 100% sure but know when MTP was introduced that there wasnt an issue Smock,maybe the MOD have caved into pressure,requests for a Smock now and issued one?

[Fallschirmwomble]

A certain shop in London's East End sold/sells fake kit passed off as genuine and has been doing so for YEARS. Rumour had it (later confirmed by an ex-employee) that the proprieter would buy every size of a new uniform garment and would send them to a copy tailor who'd dismantle the fabric pieces and make up pattern templates. These would be used in sweatshops to make from usually 100% military specification raw materials. The shop charged top dollar for all their kit.

 

If the zip isn't a replacement, I'm CERTAIN that this Smock came from there. Some of their Smock copies had buttons on the chest pockets as well as the plastic zips. I think he wasn't always able to supply all the right materials to the sweatshop. They'd look 100% real and almost always would perform just as well as the real deal. No manufacturer's name on the label, at a time when legitimate manufacturers were printing their name. The contract numbers, etc, on the label might fool most people but probably not the stores bean counters at the MoD.

 

In the late 1980s, there seemed to be a Para Smock and Para Helmet shortage (certainly in 10 PARA stores): storemen were giving out replacement zips for Smocks that were zip damaged. They'd recommend a tailor for fitting. It took a while but I worked out that the reason how the storeman could tell when someone was trying to return a shop bought Smock was because it didn't have the manufacturer's name on the label: "Cookson & Clegg Ltd". I checked as many Smocks as I could when working in the stores, one day: my theory was consistent with my findings except that a good few were also made by "Something-or-other Textiles" (I've forgotten the name. They also made SAS Windproofs.).

 

Except for the original half-zip Denisons, Para Smocks have always had the distinct exposed metal zip. When roping down from a heli or pulling yourself along on a rope, an exposed plastic zip could melt under the friction. A definitely fail, so far as kit goes.

 

It's my opinion that your Smock is a commercial copy. Made from 100% military specification fabric, etc, there's nothing wrong with it, unless you're keeping it as a collectable. Btw, the three buttons for the hood are correct.

[Enfield1940]

No manufacturer's name on the label, at a time when legitimate manufacturers were printing their name. The contract numbers, etc, on the label might fool most people but probably not the stores bean counters at the MoD.

Printing manufacturer names on labels ended circa 1995, so in itself that doesn't denote something is a commercial copy. For example, my 'SAS' windproof smock:

 

http://hmvf.co.uk/forumvb/showthread.php?38168-SAS-Windproof-Smock-Date-Range

[wdbikemad]

Printing manufacturer names on labels ended circa 1995, so in itself that doesn't denote something is a commercial copy. For example, my 'SAS' windproof smock:

 

http://hmvf.co.uk/forumvb/showthread.php?38168-SAS-Windproof-Smock-Date-Range

 

Yep, spot-on Mark...........the disappearance of manufacturers names on labels around the mid-1990s had something to do with MoD contract tendering, that seemingly opened up tenders over a certain value to the European market, rather than exclusively the UK as had been the case for years.............it seems that names disappeared to avoid upsetting anyone, particularly the end-user.......