Russ1988 Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 Thanks for the reply so quick! Next time I go to where the truck is stored ill have another search. It does indeed have a winch, with no wire left on it! I'll try and get the doors out of the back of it and have a look on them too. That picture of the both of them is from a fair few years ago - my dad and his brother brought them back in the 1980's? i think, and that is where they sat when they purchased them. We only have the red one left, we sold the white one a couple of years back to a chap called Ray Cove, down near Cheltenham and he has restored that one back to its former glory but with a different engine. That truck now sports the plate 825 YUP, theres pictures of it on the net and previously on this thread possibly. The red one looks a fair bit sadder now, as its been outside for however many years, but I wouldn't/wont part with it, as ever since i was a kid (and im only 26 now!) i've wanted to restore it. I'm also led to believe, the front nose just under the windscreen is not original? Would it have been the curved panel like every other picture of a SuCoe I have seen? Cheers Russ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trevor pitman Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 LVX965 was registered to Mrs E Phillips, White Horse Yard, Colchester on 14/5/47 as a showmans tractor. The council records do not give any details re the previous military registration. A Mrs Eliza Phillips also registered a Ford as a showmans tractor in 1949, by that time the address given was a Chelmsford address. Around this time C Presland was registering showmans vehicles to an address, also in Chelmsford. So you can see there is a link between Mrs Phillips and Mr Presland!!!! Your FWD does have a slightly modified front cab. As stated before if the military ID lives on it will be on one of the doors. The other FWD in the picture, now restored by Ray Cove, did have its ID under many layers of paint. I was able to rub the doors down to reveal its cenus number which fitted in a block used for the non winch su-coes. On the dash in the cab there may be a SM plate which will give a number indicating which contact the FWD was supplied under. LVX965 was somewhat camera shy and the picture of it pulling trailers was taken on 27/3/61 at Chingford is the only one I have of it in showmans use. Having said that the other FWD in the picture has even less history other than it was sold out of military in 1946/47 and next spotted next to yours in the mid 1980s. Please feel free to contact me via PM if you so wish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ1988 Posted April 26, 2015 Share Posted April 26, 2015 Thankyou! How do you find all this information out? Its so interesting to start piecing together its history and see what it used to be. I'll have a look on the dash next time im near it to see if any of the plates might have numbers on still, though they're all pretty blank thanks to the weather. If I find some numbers on the doors, have you got any way of tracing it back in its military life? Thanks in advance, Russ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trevor pitman Posted April 26, 2015 Share Posted April 26, 2015 I have been researching the FWD su-coe and cu-coes, and any other info re FWDs for approx. 8 years. It started when Ray advertised for a FWD as a restoration project. Your info came from Essex Council archives. I have spent many, many hours wading through the council archives all over the UK that remain in the hope of finding FWDs registered after they were sold off during the years after WWII. It is very much a hit and miss way of finding them but as I have learned its about the only way that finds them. On a good day I can usually wade through 30,000-35,000 registrations in 7 hours. The beauty of FWD as a vehicle type means it usually leaps off the page at you!!!! I would guess, without looking at my notes, I have `discovered` approx. 110 that went to showmen, 40 to circus and around 150 to recovery/timber. Not sure how many more are waiting to be `discovered`....just 4 roadworthy su-coes on the road in UK at present. Along with yours there are a few more which are `possibles`. As you have mentioned they don't last too well due to many being left outside. The timber frame cab and heavy steel panels did not go together well. Along with the thirsty petrol engine the truck is not a restoration favourite Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ1988 Posted April 26, 2015 Share Posted April 26, 2015 Possibly not a restoration favourite, but what a beast they are! We went and visited Ray a couple of weeks ago, which is the first time we have seen the FWD he purchased off of us since he collected it. What a transformation - he took us out for a ride in it too, and I couldn't wipe the smile off of my face. Re the body type.....I am assuming that the body on ours is original as it was when it served in the forces, but something I just read was saying something along the lines of steel bodies were more Canadian versions, I assume UK motors being wooden based? Or have I got my wires crossed? Thanks in advance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trevor pitman Posted April 26, 2015 Share Posted April 26, 2015 Currently at work so I do not have all my notes to hand. FWD su-coes were sent across from the US and Canada to the UK for final assembley. I have never been able to confirm those from Canada were any different than those from US. I did see in print that only those from Canada had the multi spoke wheels......I have a few pictures of those. The body on yours was a gun crews home during the war with metal fittings to secure the shells for the gun the FWD towed. The non winch version was described as `GS` general service. The non winch version is the rarer of the 2 versions in terms of numbers that served. The matador body would appear to be a `fairly easy` swap on to a FWD chassis....if you can find one! I have a full set of workshop manuals along with parts catalogue and driver instruction manuals should be serious in the restoration of this truck. Not too sure how much of the cab is left on yours now...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
les freathy Posted April 26, 2015 Share Posted April 26, 2015 Be nice to find one in this condition these days Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
les freathy Posted April 26, 2015 Share Posted April 26, 2015 Canadian FWD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matman41 Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 Possibly not a restoration favourite, but what a beast they are! We went and visited Ray a couple of weeks ago, which is the first time we have seen the FWD he purchased off of us since he collected it. What a transformation - he took us out for a ride in it too, and I couldn't wipe the smile off of my face. Re the body type.....I am assuming that the body on ours is original as it was when it served in the forces, but something I just read was saying something along the lines of steel bodies were more Canadian versions, I assume UK motors being wooden based? Or have I got my wires crossed? Thanks in advance Hello Russ, Do you have any pictures of the outside/inside of your rear body? I have always been intrigued by the construction of the steel bodies and also how the winch was catered for in the rear floor as it sticks up higher than a Matador one I believe? Regards Mel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trevor pitman Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 Hopefully this shows the location of the winch. The floor of the body of the truck is over the winch cable. You can see the roller where the cable exits the rear of the truck. The cable can also exit the front of the truck via rollers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matman41 Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 [ATTACH=CONFIG]103758[/ATTACH]Hopefully this shows the location of the winch. The floor of the body of the truck is over the winch cable. You can see the roller where the cable exits the rear of the truck. The cable can also exit the front of the truck via rollers[ATTACH=CONFIG]103759[/ATTACH] Hi Trevor, Thanks for the pictures. The thing I was wondering about is, as the winch is stuck up quite a way from the chassis, is there a 'hump' in the rear body floor to accommodate this? Or do the bench seats cover it? Regards Mel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trevor pitman Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 As far as I know the winch was `boxed` in wood. As the gun crew lived with the vehicle the box no doubt served as seat, bed, workbench, etc. Not able to find a good view of the inside of the body, I know there were a few metal brackets holding down the ammo, shells, etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matman41 Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 As far as I know the winch was `boxed` in wood. As the gun crew lived with the vehicle the box no doubt served as seat, bed, workbench, etc. Not able to find a good view of the inside of the body, I know there were a few metal brackets holding down the ammo, shells, etc Hello Trevor, I found the picture bellow via a link on the MLU Forum. It show's, all be it not very clearly, the inside of the wooden body, which seems to be identical to the Matador from what I can see. It would be interesting to see the inside of a steel body to try and work out how it was laid out. Presumably the shell runners etc. would have been similar for both body types though the method of fastening them to the floor would have to be different. Regards Mel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ1988 Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 The rear of our truck is full of cr*p so can't really see anything in there at the mo. If by any chance of a miracle I get some time to empty it a bit I will, but in good time I'll get some more pictures up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ1988 Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 Canadian FWD The very clear 'Canadian FWD' picture posted by Les Freathy, can anyone shed any light on whether ALL built SuCoe's would have had the two little half moon things on the rear tailgate? What are they for? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 They are the same as on Matadors; I think they were for stowing a towing cable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matman41 Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 The very clear 'Canadian FWD' picture posted by Les Freathy, can anyone shed any light on whether ALL built SuCoe's would have had the two little half moon things on the rear tailgate? What are they for? Thanks Hi Russ, They are where the cables (that connect the pan to the hook on the chassis when winching) for the winch scotch pans are located when the pans are secured under the body when not in use. In service the cables were normally left attached to the pans and then looped around the half moons for storage. Regards Mel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trevor pitman Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 The general service, non winch version does not have them. Could they be a way of storing rope or similar? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trevor pitman Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 Just had a look in the matador book. A couple of pictures in there with similar fitted to gun tractors. One appears to show some winch cable wound around.....so could they be for storing winch cable....as to keep the cable all on the winch drum would be too slow to wind it out in a hurry? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matman41 Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 [ATTACH=CONFIG]103787[/ATTACH]Appear these fittings were only on the gun tractors[ATTACH=CONFIG]103788[/ATTACH]The general service, non winch version does not have them. Could they be a way of storing rope or similar? Hi Trevor, They would only be on the trucks fitted with a winch, which is why, as you rightly say, the GS didn't have them. Regards Mel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDT16 Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 This one now lives in Sunny Florida. I believe it was once in the Budge Collection. SD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ1988 Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 Thanks for the replies Another question now, I gather that the lever on the right hand side of the steering column below the wheel is for applying the trailer brakes, the other side of the steering column I have something else sort of similar - refer to pics - anyone any idea what it is? Sorry if i'm being stupid! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ1988 Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 There doesn't seem to be one for FWD's, as far as I can see anyway. The main reason for starting this is that I was reading the ads section in the Classic & Vintage Commercials magazine last night and stumbled across the following advert: 'AMERICAN SUCOE FWD 1942, £1,500 ONO. 4x4 truck, reg CBN 189, originally petrol new 5LW Gardner diesel. Later used in showland. Needs restoration. North Nottinghamshire.' Now they don't come up for sale that often and I was wondering if anyone knew of this one. If there already is an FWD gallery then please merge this post into it MODS. In the meantime please see below a couple of pictures from the War & Peace Revival below. Does anyone know if this one advertised ever got sold? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trevor pitman Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 Thanks for the replies Another question now, I gather that the lever on the right hand side of the steering column below the wheel is for applying the trailer brakes, the other side of the steering column I have something else sort of similar - refer to pics - anyone any idea what it is? Sorry if i'm being stupid! According to the FWD manual just the trailer brake is attached to the steering column so it may be a mod. As for the one that was up for sale......as far as I know it is still for sale. The asking price may be the reason for this:D:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.O.S. Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 Might that be a Warner Electric Brake Rheostat? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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