Whats wrong with Combat Engineers tractors

[16svt]

I am struggling to understand why the Combat Engineers tractors are not more popular? They seem cheap and far more useful than an FV 432, they are amphibious and they seem to be able to be made road legal without twisting the law. Unlike the 432. So why aren't there more about. I don't seem to be able to find any photos or video of any swimming, are they not much good in water? or is it just that there are not many about?

 

I quite like the look of them and just wondered why they are not more popular.

Cheers

[Lauren Child]

From what I understand, maintenance and repair are rather more difficult. It's quite easy to keep a 432 running. I've not tried a CET mind you, so someone with actual experience of one might chime in.

 

They do look like jolly good fun though, and very useful, particularly if you get the crane attachment for the "front".

[sirhc]

You can't exactly fill a CET with your mates and go for a blast around the field!

[ferrettkitt]

Its a sports car (ha) two seater only. I do remember seeing Antars CET motoring at Weeton last year

Edited February 16, 2014 by ferrettkitt

[unionjackjim]

Its a sports car (ha) two seater only. I do remember seeing Antars CET motoring at Weeton last year

 

 

I will chirp in , I love mine , its a great bit of kit but would agree that the maintenance will be more hard work than the 432, but if you have some woodland its great , clears paths & remove large tree stumps instantly ,& for levelling its amazing so for me it works really well . :-D Oh and the winch is amazing , usable 95 meters & pulls like a train , I have pulled an 8 wheeler fully loaded with hardcore up a a woodland muddy track no problem , the driver still quotes it as his party trick .

 

think they are a bit like marmite , & I bloody love that as well .

[andym]

Didn't they remove the crane attachment for safety reasons?

 

What's the spares situation like, out of interest? I'm assuming that with only a few vehicles built, MOD won't have ordered too many spare parts.

 

Andy

[robin craig]

Dear 16SVT,

 

Sorry I would use your name, but it is not visible.

 

I think you are asking as to why more have not been purchased and now privately owned and operated and maintained and on the show circuit. Is that what you were asking?

 

I know we at work have looked at them but I have told management that I think they are a dead end as far as spares and that it is big and will take bigger equipment to move it around compared to the CVRTs, that did not stop us getting a Stormer and a 436.

 

But honestly for me the biggest fear is it becoming an orphan for spares, we have one of those already, the CVR(W) FOX. That comment seems to have hit home, so we don have one despite some very tidy examples coming out.

 

R

[radiomike7]

The rocket propelled anchor for the winch rope sounds quite entertaining....

[ferretfixer]

I believe they were prone to mechanical failure fairly regularly in Service.

 

I have never worked on them myself when I was a Mechanic initialy. But I HAVE heard frequently from serving collegue's later on, the quote:

 

'When is a C.E.T, Not a C.E.T'.............................'When it is Running'!...............I guess that leave's it open to interpretation !........:-\

[ploughman]

Wasn't one of the faults something to do with the steering clutches.

Very prone to failing and causing the CET to slew violently without warning.

Remember it happening to one in Iserlohn back in 1983.

I think it ended up embedded in a shop window.

[antar]

I have been a CET private owner for about 8 years, I had 2 from the first releases which were a bit rough, I had to swap a few engines and steering boxes to build 2 from about 6 in a friendly military breakers yard, that is how I learnt about how they work, plus purchasing all the manuals from Vintage Military Manuals and then spending hours studying them.

I sold one to a collector in the Northeast a few years ago, then in late 2012 I had the opportunity to swap the other one for one of the very tidy ones in the big batch currently being released at Withams which also had been sold as scrap as it was a non runner.

The latest ones have all had the swim levers, splash boards, and the drive props to the Dowty water jets removed, however I was able to save these from my old one before it was scrapped.

As far as I am aware I have the only CET crane attachment in the UK, I know of one other in the USA. Over the years I have managed to collect most of the CES, some of it coming from other members of this forum when they have purchased CVRT equipment in the Withams tenders which it has been mixed with.

Due to the knowledge I have gained over the period of owning one I have been able to help out other CET owners in fault finding on them and on the odd occasion help out with spares.

As for the rocket propelled anchor, this seems to be the most illusive piece of CES, I have all the drawings to make one but have never been able to actually find an original one.

With regards to reliability in service I have heard some horror stories, after Gulf War 1 questions were asked in the house of commons regarding the fact that they were the most unreliable vehicle deployed in theatre.

On visiting the REME Museum reserve collection in Bordon on one occasion I was introduced to some regular REME guys as"the bloke who owns a CRARV trailer" to which they all fell about laughing and reeling off stories of how many times they had towed in CETs.

As regards to spares, just buy 2 they are that cheap at the moment !

[Lauren Child]

I'm told that the Duxford CET has the crane attachment and full CES stashed away somewhere in the archives, but it's not displayed on the vehicle (which is currently out for restoration works).

 

Apparently the amount of CES that came with just one vehicle was massive, and filled several stillages.

[robin craig]

Dear John (aka Antar)

 

I applaud your determination and am jealous of your operational ownership of the CET.

 

I think it is great you have managed to become the SME (subject matter expert) on the machines. You are lucky to have the time the money and the space to do it. If we were ever to buy one it would be through someone like your self who has a decent reputation and has gone through it and scaled it with parts accordingly.

 

Out here we would just not take that risk.

 

I do have a soft spot for any machine that worked, ie Eager Beaver, CET etc.

 

R

[Tiffy_massive]

Never heard of or seen a crane attachment for a CET. Are you mistaking it for the a-frame for the winch which could be fitted to the hull?

The main problem with CETs was the number of micro-switches that could fail at any time or the radiators being mounted on the side. When digging the operators would have to stop at regular intervals and clear out the radiator grill to ensure the vehicle did not over heat. At one time i looked after 3 of the things and have to say that with good operators they were not that bad. I also had a very good Ece who was well in to his vehicle electrics and really enjoyed playing with CETs. We never swam them as we never had faith in hull integrity.

[timbo]

From recollection the crane/ a frame call it what you will would sit in the bucket - Im sure John has posted a picture of it in the past. I also seem to remember they didnt see much use in practice since they were pretty limited in their functionality and their use was discontinued pretty early on...

[robin craig]

Was it not referred to as a JIB?

 

R

[Jerrykins]

My understanding of CET steering problems were as follows. The vehicle was conceived to steer on the road using diff steer as in fv432 from which that part of the steering originates. To dig it was arranged to use skid steer to which external pair of skid steer clutch packs were added to output sides of the original fv432 unit. I've driven a couple of CET's but for the life of me I can't remember the steering arrangements other than it had a steering wheel and not tillers.

 

Now if you were a sapper trying to dig a hole to hide a Chieftain and were under fire in a very lightly armoured vehicle you'd be inclined to use diff steer to dig the hole in half the time. If you dug up hill at an angle that prove a perfect way to snap the intermediate shaft within like a carrot as the diff steer was being asked to do something it was never designed to do.

 

So the MoD asked R-R at Crewe to redesign the CGS312 (that's it's proper name & CGS311 as in Fv432) to dig in diff steer mode. This was eventually done in in prototype form in '84 and thoroughly tested at Long Valley in '85. Try as they might they couldn't break it. Some of the materials and mods added to the box involved some pretty exotic stuff. Thereafter mod kits were made for the fleet and introduced to service. I gathered that the gearbox also underwent an upgrade in paralle; to this programme.

 

The way to recognise the moded CGS 312 or mark 11 is the outer clutch cases have stiffening webs welded to them. There were some being sold by Withams a little while back at a next to nothing price. Don't go near one if it isn't modified, if I were you.

 

Jerry