Morris gun tractor history and markings

[Catch 22 LBDR]

it would seem now from what you have found out that if it was sold by 1947 the only number you may find under the layers

of paint is of course the wartime census number beginning with the letter H as to the markings of the RASC yellow and blue

these would have be used after it left military service as at the time of sale it would still be green and red l think the markings must have been applied after it left military service by a former owner

 

There is proximately an 18 month period in which the Quad would need to be; repatriated to the UK, prepared to be struck off, auctioned/purchased, shipped to Ireland and then reregistered. I suppose this could have bean done in a relatively short space of time. Leaving some scope for a short post war career.

 

I wonder if the vehicle auctions were recorded in time somewhere. I am sure if they were , then it might give things like places and dates that they were held. (A list of vehicles might be asking too much) But if there were dates then I might be able to cross reference it with that 18 month period. Any Ideas?

 

There is no evedance of a wartime census number on ether the bonnet or door. Although I have bean reluctant to go scraping at paint yet. If done wrong vital information could be lost.

[wally dugan]

IF as you say this vehicle was sold in 1947 the arm of service would still be red and green as the yellow and blue did not come in to being until the 1950s IF you look at the thread postwar sales catalogues on here you will see that l have collected the records of 150,ooo wartime vehicles sold in the UK between 1945 to 1949 SO do you know at which of the many disposals sale your vehicle was sold at for over thirty years l have probably research more british military vehicles

histories than most

[Richard Farrant]

It would be very odd to see a gun tractor in RASC markings, surely it would be in RA markings, red over blue split horizontally?

[wally dugan]

RICHARD it does seem strange but the bridge plate shows the remains of the yellow and blue the more you get into this in my opinion the markings are false some ones idea of military markings

[Catch 22 LBDR]

It would be very odd to see a gun tractor in RASC markings, surely it would be in RA markings, red over blue split horizontally?

 

The Markings are very strange Richard. There are a number of oddities with this vehicle. For instance the chassis number was not amongst the list of contract numbers for Gun Tractors. I have bean unable to trace it so far. (1929 F.W.D 8580 (C8)).

 

 

[Catch 22 LBDR]

IF as you say this vehicle was sold in 1947 the arm of service would still be red and green as the yellow and blue did not come in to being until the 1950s IF you look at the thread postwar sales catalogues on here you will see that l have collected the records of 150,ooo wartime vehicles sold in the UK between 1945 to 1949 SO do you know at which of the many disposals sale your vehicle was sold at for over thirty years l have probably research more british military vehicles

histories than most

 

How were the vehicles listed for sale, was it by chassis number? I have no Idea where it was sold. Had a quick look at your thread, its a hole new can of worms:wow:. Going to get stuck into it now.

[Catch 22 LBDR]

RICHARD it does seem strange but the bridge plate shows the remains of the yellow and blue the more you get into this in my opinion the markings are false some ones idea of military markings

 

 

I am not so sure they are false, (maybe there not British) If you look closely at the pictures you can see where the markings were repainted. Yellow over gold, White over silver, etc. You can even see where the main colour has run over the markings, and where they were painted over. To me the marking look as old as the vehicle its self. I cant see how an Irish farmer in 1947ish would be too bothered about military markings.

[wally dugan]

There were listed by there registration number which is not a great deal of help

[wally dugan]

THE VEHICLE has been in civilian hands for 65 years and l do not know how many owners so unless it has been with the

original owner for 65 years and remained untouched you may never find the answer to those markings

[Catch 22 LBDR]

There were listed by there registration number which is not a great deal of help

 

Not to panic yet. With a bit more info I might be able to close the gap on the search.:cheesy:

[Richard Farrant]

Is there a possibility that this vehicle was bought from new by the Irish Army?

[Catch 22 LBDR]

THE VEHICLE has been in civilian hands for 65 years and l do not know how many owners so unless it has been with the

original owner for 65 years and remained untouched you may never find the answer to those markings

 

Yes the quad was owned by the same farmer. I rescued it with my Dad almost 20 years ago (I was 15 at the time) from his ditch in a field. Unfortunately he has passed on now and his family had no interest in it so no info was available. The back had bean removed (butchered with a torch) so it could be registered as a Tractor. When we stripped it down we found that the linkage on the top of the gearbox had broken. We guessed where it broke down was where it was left until We rescued it.

[Catch 22 LBDR]

Is there a possibility that this vehicle was bought from new by the Irish Army?

 

This was something I investigated. I could not find any markings like my ones in the Irish army (that I could find) But most of all I would have thought it would have bean repainted in green by them, as a result I ruled it out for now, unless something else comes up.

[Catch 22 LBDR]

Where could I go to find the contract number. I checked the gun tractor list and it's not on there?

[wally dugan]

right l do not like to be beaten so to start with sending your chassis number to the MODERN RECORDS UNIVERSITY OF

WARWICK who hold the records of MORRIS COMMERCIAL LTD hopefully they will have your vehicles contract number

that's step one

[Catch 22 LBDR]

right l do not like to be beaten so to start with sending your chassis number to the MODERN RECORDS UNIVERSITY OF

WARWICK who hold the records of MORRIS COMMERCIAL LTD hopefully they will have your vehicles contract number

that's step one

 

Fantastic, I had no idea there was such a place :laugh:

[Stefano]

I've been looking throught the RAOC Chilwell book, and of course Wally is absolutely right, if you can find out the relationship between the Morris Commercial sanction number and the relative WD contract number then things do start looking up. Luckily for me, in the Quad article in Wheels and Tracks N°29 Bart Vanderveen made the correlation of my sanction number 1794 and the WD contract number V3772. Unfortunately the information in the article becomes sketchier when he talked about the Mk III.

I didn't know that any of the Morris Commercial records had survived, when I enquired at Gaydon about the CDSW they told me that all the Addersley Park records were burned when the factory closed down. This is very good news

[Catch 22 LBDR]

Yes, I used the Wheels and Tracks N°29for my search too, but couldn't find it.

[wally dugan]

just checked morris commercial records still listed at warwick uni E MAIL archives@warwick.ac.uk

[Runflat]

The archive notes say that the collection forms part of the British Motor Industry Heritage Trust Archive (MSS.226). But it seems to be mainly board minutes.

[Dusty]

The only Morris Gun Tractors sold through Elstow Storage Depot in 1947 were -

1700457 Morris Gun Tractor 4x4 30^th. June 1947

1731946 Morris Gun Tractor 4x4 30^th. June 1947

4549917 Morris Quad Gun Tractor 30cwt 4x4 5^th. November 1947

Dusty

[wally dugan]

in any research you have to start at the source in this case the manufacturer until you ask you should not dismiss it

until you have let the archives reply

[Catch 22 LBDR]

Email sent, thanks for your help Wally:tup::

[Catch 22 LBDR]

The only Morris Gun Tractors sold through Elstow Storage Depot in 1947 were -

1700457 Morris Gun Tractor 4x4 30^th. June 1947

1731946 Morris Gun Tractor 4x4 30^th. June 1947

4549917 Morris Quad Gun Tractor 30cwt 4x4 5^th. November 1947

Dusty

 

Thanks Dusty. These ones might be too late for me as the "ZD" number plates (on my Quad) stopped in Jan 1947. It was worth a look though. :-)

[wally dugan]

HI l have got all the catalogues for the sales from 1945 to January 1947 that l have so between now and the new year l will with a friend go though them and list all the morris quads with two of us we should get though them quickly when done l will post the list to you

 

REGARDS WALLY