Starfire Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 Hi All, I plan on eventually fitting some Clansman radios to my Saracen MK 5 and to that end, I need to refit the radio tray that goes to the left of the driver. Does anyone have any photos or manual excerpts that show how this was installed in the vehicle? I assume that I'm missing some brackets that go with it. Cheers, Terry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChasSomT. Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 I'm not too sure that Clansman was ever fitted to Saracen. My TA unit started getting Clansman when Saracen was being replaced with Spartan (Sultan and Samaritan) I THINK. (30 ish years ago now :-( ) It should be possible to custom build/adapt something though. Good luck 'Chas.' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starfire Posted October 21, 2013 Author Share Posted October 21, 2013 I've not been able to find anything indicating that Clansman was ever fitted to Saracens either, but I want a working radio and intercom system and I'll be damned if I'm either going to pay for, or mess around with, Larkspur. I'm happy enough for those in the know to silently (or not so silently) judge me when they see it as I plan for it to be a working vehicle and not a show pony. In any case, I have to get the existing rack installed and then work out how to adapt Clansman to it, so if anyone has a manual, EMER or photos, that would be great! The next challenge would be to get into the driver's seat with it there, maybe it's a good opportunity to shed a few pounds? Cheers, Terry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robin craig Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Terry, I had always understood that Clansman didn't need radios to make the intercom work. You may be loading up more ironmongery than you need. R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starfire Posted October 21, 2013 Author Share Posted October 21, 2013 Hi Robin, I know that I can have an intercom without the radios, using the Clansman harness, but I want radios too Cheers, Terry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fv1609 Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Terry I think you are going to have to rely on your ingenuity to integrate Clansman into your vehicle. I think I have all the Saracen installations in EMER COMMUNICATION INSTALLATIONS, they are exclusively Larkspur. Indeed the detailed index of A001 lists nothing else but that system. These of course are EMERs I have no idea if something might cover what you want in an EMEI (AUS) of those that I have only Larkspur is covered. Is this of any help? If you take a fancy to a particular Larkspur layout that you feel would lend itself to being the basis of a Clansman installation then choose something from the list below. The relevant EMER CI gives a fair number of diagrams & photos. K 195 Wireless Stations in APC, Saracen (C13/B47 with harness type B) Mar.1961 K 215 Station, Radio, in ACV Saracen Mk 2 (C13/C13HP/C42) Inst.Instr.No.3. Jun.1967 K 225 Wireless Station in APC, Saracen, Mks 1 & 2 (C42/B47) Inst.Instr.No.4. Nov.1958 K 225 Wireless Station in APC, Saracen, Mks 1 & 2 (C42/B47) Amendments. Inst.Instr.No.4. Nov.1959 K 245 Wireless Stations in ACV, Sararecn (C11-R210/C42) Inst.Imstr.No.1. Nov.1958 K 255 Wireless stations in ACV, Saracen (C11-R210/C42/C42 with harness type A). Inst.Instr.No.1. Dec.1959 K 502 Wireless Stations in ACP, RA, Adjutant, Saracen, Mk 2 (C11-R210/C45 plus R209) Technical Description. Nov.1958 K 504 Wireless Stations in ACP, RA, Adjutant, Saracen, Mk 2 (C11-R210/C45 plus R209) Field & Base Repairs. Nov.1961 K 505 Wireless Stations in ACP, RA, Adjutant, Saracen, Mk 2 (C11-R210/C45 plus R209) Inst.Instr.No.1. Nov.1958 K 510 Wireless Stations in ACP, RA, Saracen, Mk 2. (C45/B48 plus R209) Data Summary Sep.1958 K 512 Wireless Stations in ACP, RA, CPO, & ACPO, Saracen, Mk 2. (C45/C45 plus R209) Technical Description. Nov.1958 K 515 Wireless Stations in ACP, RA, CPO, & ACPO, Saracen, Mk 2. (C45/C45 plus R209) Inst.Instr.No.1. Nov.1958 K 520 Wireless Stations in ACP, RA, Saracen, Mk 2 (C45/B48) Data Summary. Sep.1958 K 522 Wireless Stations in ACP, RA, GPO, Saracen, Mk 2. (C45/B48) Technical Description. Oct.1958 K 525 Wireless Stations in ACP, RA, GPO, Saracen, Mk 2. (C45/B48 with harness type B) Inst.Instr.No.1. Oct.1958 K 530 Wireless Stations in ACP, RA, Saracen, Mk 2. (C45/C45/B48/R209 + 2 x ALS21) Data Summary. Jul.1962 K 534 Station Radio in ACP, RA, Saracen, Mk 2. (C45/C45/B48 + R209 + 2 x ALS 21). Field & Base Repairs. Mar.1963 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlienFTM Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Like others, I am sure there was a valid (but now long-forgotten) reason why we did not / could not fit Clansman in Saracens. I also remember that we got Sultans to replace our Saracens and had to fit Larkspur for the first six months until Clansman was issued to 3 Armd Div. I believe the two events were connected but it was some 34 years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starfire Posted October 21, 2013 Author Share Posted October 21, 2013 Thanks Clive, It looks like I'm missing the rather substantial platform that goes under the carrier set. Guess I'll have to make something up. Cheers, Terry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starfire Posted October 21, 2013 Author Share Posted October 21, 2013 Also, I would be interested in getting any and all Saracen manuals off of you, either printed or in soft copy. I'm happy to pay for materials and your time. Cheers, Terry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fv1609 Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Also, I would be interested in getting any and all Saracen manuals off of you, either printed or in soft copy. I'm happy to pay for materials and your time. Cheers, Terry Terry fair enough to ask. I don't mind doing a few pages but the Saracen EMERs I have cover 6 bulging ring binders with half & full A4 pages with fold out A3 diagrams it would take about a week to scan & crop them I'm afraid. I've made a blunder that EMEI (AUST) picture I posted is for a Ferret not a Saracen. I find it confusing that COMMUNICATION INSTALLATIONS is not a separate series & is bundled in with EMEI (AUST) VEHICLE yet in the UK the vehicle stuff was in EMER WHEELED VEHICLES & comms stuff in EMER COMMUNICATIONS INSTALLATIONS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChasSomT. Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 " I'm happy enough for those in the know to silently (or not so silently) judge me when they see it as I plan for it to be a working vehicle and not a show pony." Terry, Sorry If I gave the impression I was criticising you. Far from it, the last thing I am is a 'Rivet counter' - Whatever it takes to make it work, that's my motto! I was only trying to point out that you could (probably Would) be looking for something that doesn't exist. The MoD May have gone to the trouble of drawing up racking, cabling etc. only to be overtaken by events (phasing out of Saracen) and it never actually being made/installed. I Know you said you want to run Clansman - Robin is correct, our 439 MC has no radios (Not even fitted with antenna bases) but we run 'Gold fronted' ANR(?) boxes for intercom, no problem. All the best, 'Chas.' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starfire Posted October 21, 2013 Author Share Posted October 21, 2013 Chas, I didn't think you were a rivet counter, but I figure that they're out there and they will be judging. As long as I'm happy, I don't really care what they think though Clive, what I really, really need is the Saracen Service Schedule. I know what I need to check and how to check it, but I have not idea when I'm supposed to do it, nor what I need to top it all up with. Cheers, Terry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fv1609 Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Clive, what I really, really need is the Saracen Service Schedule. I know what I need to check and how to check it, but I have not idea when I'm supposed to do it, nor what I need to top it all up with. Cheers, Terry Ah well you are in luck :-D PM me your email I have already scanned it into a pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g0ozs Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Terry I would have thought one of the C11/R210 fits would be the best start for a Clansman adaptation if only because the R210 and the PSU are similar sized to the RT353 and RT321 from Clansman. If you are going the harness route you need an IB2 (2 radio + rebro) or IB3 (3 radio) and as many CB2 (2 radio) or CB3 (3 radio) crew boxes as you need intercom stations. You dont actually need a radio to use them just as an intercom, as has been noted. There are two types - the later gold faced ones provide power for ANR (automatic noise reduction) headgear - you can use older non ANR headsets with the gold boxes but not vice versa, so gold is best. For a 2 user intercom you can much more simply (if not officially) use a 321 or 353 in IC (intercom mode) with a remote combining unit for the 2nd user connected to the remote terminals by a 2 core cable - much cheaper and easier to wire if all you need is communication with the person in the turret who has good visibility ... Regards Iain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlienFTM Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 C11/R210 is a helluva sledgehammer just to get IC. Once you go the obvious Larkspur route, C42 (or C45 for RA) and / or C13 (NOT high power) would be far easier to source and more typical of the fit in a Saracen, whether it be an APC or and ACV (sorry I saw somebody's list of Larkspur fits earlier in the thread but I cannot remember if anything had been posited about what model of Saracen we playing with here. And I am suffering side-effects from a flu jab, so feel free to call me Grumpy). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starfire Posted October 25, 2013 Author Share Posted October 25, 2013 Thanks Guys, The Saracen is a MK5 APC (GPMG). I've already decided that I will be fitting Clansman series gear, probably a PRC-352 and a VRC-353. I would have liked to have used the standard support tray, but since most of it appears to be missing anyway, I will probably fabricate something up, based on the Ferret's Clansman mount. I need to get my head around the power distribution setup installed in my Saracen (it appears a little dodgy) and work out if I need to use the Power Distrubution No 8 box that I have floating around in the back of it, as I only have one set of batteries, but I do have a 30V, 300w generator set, which I unserstand were not normally fitted to the APCs. Cheers, Terry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott9643 Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 Hi All, Does anyone have any photos or manual excerpts that show how this was installed in the vehicle? I assume that I'm missing some brackets that go with it. Cheers, Terry Larkspur C42 fitted to Mk2 Saracen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starfire Posted October 25, 2013 Author Share Posted October 25, 2013 Thanks Scott, Those photos are really handy. That also appears to be a very tidy Saracen! Cheers, Terry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fv1609 Posted October 26, 2013 Share Posted October 26, 2013 I've been asked for pics of C11-R210/C45 + R209. I'll post them here as others might see points of interest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan NG Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 I've been asked for pics of C11-R210/C45 + R209. I'll post them here as others might see points of interest. Thanks for posting, and they are very useful reference! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fv1609 Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 Alan nice to get a thank you, glad they were of help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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