question Armament carried on airportables

[WCMatt]

Hello List!

Not sure if I should have posted this in here or up in the "British vehicles forum" so here it goes..Does anyone have any photos of armed airportable lightweight landrovers? I'm not talking about the uber heavily armed SAS or recce trucks but just the sort of standard "armaments carrier" (if that makes any sense).

 

Guess what I'm curious about is the pedistal mount for the gpmg. Where was it & how was it mounted? I've only seen one photo of a lwt sporting a ped. mount and it was a pre-production model so I'm assuming weapons mounts on airportables like jeeps was a rare occurance?

 

 

Regards,

Matt

[AlienFTM]

Hello List!

Not sure if I should have posted this in here or up in the "British vehicles forum" so here it goes..Does anyone have any photos of armed airportable lightweight landrovers? I'm not talking about the uber heavily armed SAS or recce trucks but just the sort of standard "armaments carrier" (if that makes any sense).

 

Guess what I'm curious about is the pedistal mount for the gpmg. Where was it & how was it mounted? I've only seen one photo of a lwt sporting a ped. mount and it was a pre-production model so I'm assuming weapons mounts on airportables like jeeps was a rare occurance?

 

 

Regards,

Matt

 

I might be wrong so don't quote me.

 

A couple of years ago I reviewed a book:

 

http://www.arrse.co.uk/content/204-review-pathfinder-company-graham-gilmore-reviewed-alienftm.html

 

The book discussed the various weapons and mounts they used on their vehicles, and even Zero Alpha on my Domestic Command Net commented that there were lots of pretty pictures (she didn't see the snaps taken by these mercenaries - as many saw them - taken in the minutes after fire-fights, with blood still soaking into sand).

 

The book itself may or may not be useful (primarily because I cannot now remember whether they even used Land Rovers) but it will give you an insight into what weapons can be stuck onto such a vehicle with a little ingenuity.

[wally dugan]

MATT the lightweight was not generally fitted with a weapons mount for a GPMG only personal weapons were carried in

most cases if you can get a copy of half ton miilitary land rover by M COOK its got some photographs of them in use

[.303fan]

the dutch lightweight landrover had a uzi weapon clamp on the bulkhead behind the seats.

most got used as 24v ffr.

[WCMatt]

Guys

Thanks for the replies. I ordered that landrover 1/2T book by M.Cook (Amazon has them). I understand that the Military LRs would have had brackets for the Soldier's personal weapons but it looks like with the exception of the SAS, recce & WMIK landies, the average vehicle wasn't "armed".

 

 

Matt

[ruxy]

Thanks for the replies. I ordered that landrover 1/2T book by M.Cook (Amazon has them). I understand that the Military LRs would have had brackets for the Soldier's personal weapons but it looks like with the exception of the SAS, recce & WMIK landies, the average vehicle wasn't "armed".

 

Your last response - quote.

 

---------------------

 

Depends on what you mean by "armed" and average vehicle , generally (and I have Solihull factory build up sheets for some contracts). Specified were two qty. Universal small arms clips Rover part number 348943. (these are the better type of spring clip lined with roughish leather) These came under Misc. Stowages and Equipment and were "AD" (additional) Intentioned for the drivers personal weapon , that would in most cases be a SLR , from my TA days - I don't recall a Sterling SMG being a good fit. Listed also are the brackets & all fixings. Designed so all fits OK with a Unitary Radio Kit Installed.

 

You will find the odd photograph of after-fitment on passenger side bulk-head (this is on a Para Recce) the pic with a helicopter also. Never seen a in-service genuine shoot-em-up Walt photograph , the odd one probably existed that was not a Para recce , if you can find & display a photograph - then no doubt there will soon be hundreds of retro-fit on the show scene as a must have original authentic LoL

 

Joking aside , having walked every month down lines of hundreds at MVS (Litchfield) and auction sites private & Ruddington - don't recall any evidence of drilled holes / traces of mountings that you could say was a gun mount. Only ever seen one Para recce at CMA Maltby, Teesside Auction and it was stripped and then stripped again of most thingies other than the odd basket ..

 

You mention a pre-pro photograph , this would be a factory publicity staged shot.

 

You will not find any pintle gun-mount in the MJC book , you could always go to the Ex-MLRA Forum and ask MJC direct ,,

Edited October 19, 2013 by ruxy
amd.

[ruxy]

 

A few years earlier A&SH , bracketry could soon be adapted to S2A Rover 1 , possibly not as gunners seat seems a special ?

 

88" in the background - is that a pintle mount in doorway LoL dunno - seems some sort of bollard or mast ?

[ruxy]

 

 

Supposed to be a in-service photograph , obviously posed.

 

Chicken wire & scrim , interesting - a rare 3 colour DP , middle-east - Cyprus ?

[WCMatt]

Thanks for the images. Makes me long for a 109" instead of an airportable..... Noticed none of them had a pedistal mount & all of them had the MG positioned for the front passenger to use. I guess one reason why I find that odd is that a ped. mount in the rear would give a far greater arc of fire then one mounted up front as in the photos.

 

Matt

[.303fan]

the dutch had a 109 with pedestal mount.

http://www.landroverserie3.nl/index_bestanden/Page320.htm

and in the yellow tag left under , it states for sale 35-vs-rv.

if you want it, i am willing to translate, no share of sale comes my way (just friends trying to help.)

cheers,

Arjan

[ruxy]

Thanks for the images. Makes me long for a 109" instead of an airportable..... Noticed none of them had a pedistal mount & all of them had the MG positioned for the front passenger to use. I guess one reason why I find that odd is that a ped. mount in the rear would give a far greater arc of fire then one mounted up front as in the photos.

 

Matt

 

Well - you are then talking about a armoured car which a Land Rover was not (excepting such as a Shorts). I understand there was only abt/ 6 or 8 real Para Recce Lightweights , don't know of any similar SAS Lightweights ?

 

The VPK NI kits gave a reasonable protection (other than culvert mines) , one or two men for rifle top-cover - then better to quick de-bus and rely on abt. 4 men for accurate rifle fire.

 

Would the cone-of fire of such as the Aden 109" truck be of any practical use ??

 

I once trawled through the Britains Small Wars Website - looking for this info, you would have to go back as far as S1 LR's and then I guess they had adapted as a swop over from Jeeps & Champ. There does seem a British Army policy that was not deviated from until the 1970's and that was just the few Para Recce Lightweights (until somebody turns out documentary / photographic evidence) ..

[WCMatt]

Well - you are then talking about a armoured car which a Land Rover was not (excepting such as a Shorts). I understand there was only abt/ 6 or 8 real Para Recce Lightweights , don't know of any similar SAS Lightweights ? Yes LRs (like HMMWVs) were not AFVs & never entended to be. I have a series III airportable & my original inquiry was about photos of that type LR with a weapons mount (a pedistal mount to be specific). However I was also using the term "armed land rover" as a blanket term to include any of the LR family that would have been similarly equipped(Sorry for the confusion). The "other" reason for my original post was that I really don't want to do my lwt up as a para recce vehicle. 'have a feeling there's more of those rolling around now then what was ever in service. I do use my MVs in an OPFOR roll against a local Military accademy so having a spot to mount something would be nice.

 

The VPK NI kits gave a reasonable protection (other than culvert mines) , one or two men for rifle top-cover - then better to quick de-bus and rely on abt. 4 men for accurate rifle fire..

 

Would the cone-of fire of such as the Aden 109" truck be of any practical use ?? Depends on the situation I'd sumize. ' think a gpmg on a pedistal mount fitted to the bed of a 109" would give the gunner a 360 deg. field of fire. I remember Vets of the Vietnam war telling me that they moved the ped. mount from between the front seats of the M151 jeeps to the center of the "bed" on those 1/4 tons so they could shoot to the rear of the vehicle when driving through - out of an ambush. However, if this is something that the British Army didn't do, then it is a moot point (to me).

 

I once trawled through the Britains Small Wars Website - looking for this info, you would have to go back as far as S1 LR's and then I guess they had adapted as a swop over from Jeeps & Champ. There does seem a British Army policy that was not deviated from until the 1970's and that was just the few Para Recce Lightweights (until somebody turns out documentary / photographic evidence) ..

Thanks for the in depth info & pics. THink that 1/2 ton book will still be of use as I really don't have much in the way of LR lit.

 

 

Regards,

Matt

 

[WCMatt]

That 1/2 ton landrover book by M.J.Cook arrived today . Parusing it a little after arrival, I think it is going to be a great motivator for working on the Lwt...

 

Matt

[robin craig]

I have always thought that the lightweight stripped down to bare chassis with the plastic seat lawn chair as used in NI towing a fish fryer trailer rigged with all the lifting chains is such a neat set up and one that begs to be recreated.

 

Far better than any male member weapon add on extensions.

 

Road legality excluded of course.

 

My 2 cents worth

 

R

[paulbrook]

Big bro and I once drove a severely cut down Austin ATV with both SU carb and straight through (drainpipe I think) exhaust from York to Huntingdon at great speed. It went like stink, but the thing that reminded me about it was the fact that the driver's seat was a plastic chair.

 

Goodness me it could shift though. Sounded nice too...

[WCMatt]

I have always thought that the lightweight stripped down to bare chassis with the plastic seat lawn chair as used in NI towing a fish fryer trailer rigged with all the lifting chains is such a neat set up and one that begs to be recreated.

 

Far better than any male member weapon add on extensions.

 

Road legality excluded of course.

 

My 2 cents worth

 

R

 

I know that sometimes ferrets had thier fenders , external storage bins & other kit removed so as not to creat more shrapnel in the event of an IED detonation. Wonder if that was also the case with the lwts as well? I saw the pics in Cook's 1/2 ton book (or Cookbook, if you prefer :cool2:) of them running around sans body. As for the "male member weapon add on" thing, Well, I use my MVs as OPFOR vehicles for a local Military school so there's a better then average chance that my lwt will actually sport an operational M240 in that role.

 

I've been an MV owner since the early 90s and have actually never brought one to a show. ' Been in a couple of parades & by a couple, I mean two. Did one (local) display & that was just about enough for me.

 

Matt