fesm_ndt Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 As what others have said, I hope everyone involved is healthy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
utt61 Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 A tragic incident, and my thoughts go out to the victims. More than ever this sort of thing highlights the fact that the roads today are dangerous places filled with barely competent people, and in order to be safe we have to drive in a very defensive manner, especially in vehicles which are slower, less conspicuous, or different to the run of the mill. Nowadays if driving at a speed slower than might be expected, or if slowing or stopped in traffic, I am always glued to the rear view mirrors and ready to avoid the moron behind (it's quite a joke with my family, but one day it may keep me and them alive). Those of us who drive unusual vehicles have to anticipate and allow for other drivers' mistakes and stupidity. Very, very sad! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puff Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 I'm glad my dad uses an amber beacon on the back of his FWD lorry when he's out on the roads. We normally sit around the 30mph mark when on the roads. Even though its not a guarantee of safety, we feel a lot safer with it on as it gets other road users attention from miles away. We're lucky where we stay in Scotland because there aren't any motorways near us, however we have noticed that road users pull out very early to pass us on dual carriageways compared to once when he forgot to switch the beacon on. It makes a world of difference but like I say, its no guarantee of safety on the roads. I do agree with what others say on here - a lot of road users don't seen to look further than beyond their car bonnets nor are aware of what's going on around them. I hope the people/ driver of the Scammell are okay/ on the mend - Vehicles can be repaired, but the welfare of the persons are the priority here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan76 Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 I also hope those involved are OK and recover quickly... I have to say, it has exercised me.... My Green Goddess came with hi-vis chevron markler boards on the rear from its time in service during Op Fresco (not all of them had these fitted - these had been taped on!) which were faded and so replaced. I also replaced the rear marker light bulbs with LED bulbs and new lenses to ensure maximum brightness (the front side lights were changed, too). I now tend to drive with these on even in the day. The RL petrol carrier has a large flashing yellow light mounted at 'truck driver face height' on the tailboard for good measure, always used on faster A roads and motorways.... Duncan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 Like many have mentioned - many accidents happen like this that aren't MV related so may be it's not the slow MV's that are an issue but just general motoring incidents. I know many don't like the idea of upgrading old lighting systems of which I can understand. I admire those who trailer the smaller MV's to shows instead of driving them (as they do get some stick sometimes for doing so). But may be we need to make our vehicles as visible as we possibly can whilst driving on such roads. Once at a show it can all come off. We know the problems - but we need to be thinking about the solutions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefano Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 We know the problems - but we need to be thinking about the solutions. Jack, I hear you and I know what you mean, but seeing as in the past two weeks I've seen two of my friends finish up in intensive care due to cars pulling out in front of them and one in the morgue from bring T-boned, please allow me a little slack here. We've all heard that speed kills, and every time that there is a hideous accident someone always rolls out the usual platitudes that ever lower speed limits are a good thing and that we need to roll ourselves up in hi-viz tape and flashing lights until we squeak when we breath and electrocute ourselves when it rains, but I would rather sit pillion with Valentino Rossi for a dash across europe than go to the shops with any number of blue rinse oap's who might as well be on Mars for all the awareness they have of their surroundings. Somewhere along the line somebody forgot to mention that a driving licence is not a God given right, but something that you have to deserve. When I took my HGV it was a long drawn out and nerve racking experience - but as cheap as chips to take. When I got my C+E a couple of years ago it was a walk in the park - and cost a fortune. Draw your own conclusions there. The roads are an increasingly dangerous place to be, this is true, and the fault lies in bad driving (not fast driving mind you - bad driving - two very different things indeed). Stopping distances, awareness and vehicle control are alien concepts to vast numbers of people that simply need their licences ripped to pieces before their eyes... Sorry for the outburst, but like I said, it hasn't been a great few days Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JEMIMA Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 I use these on the back of my QLR -at only £10 each including P&P you wont find better / cheaper ! http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Slow-Vehicle-Fluorescent-Magnetic-Warning-Sign-/271225826088?pt=UK_Car_Parts_Vehicles_Automobila_ET&hash=item3f2651ab28#ht_617wt_1018 They are great value and really work - i also have an ARB that gets a canvas bag placed over it at shows to disguise it - although of course you can use a magnetic ARB.....I have personally tried to raise awareness for many years of the need to be seen in an MV - Please dont be fooled by thinking this is just a Motorway related problem - this time of year sees many lanes develop leafy canopies and you can change from bright sunlight to dark shadows in an instant - Even a cheap HI-VIZ jacket attched to the jerry can or spare tire on the rear of a jeep makes a big difference.... As mentioned in a previous comment relating to this incident - we dont know the reasons or circumstances behind the collision - whilst everyone here is debating speed and vision as factors - it can serve as a timely reminder to all of us that no-matter what we drive,how large,small, fast or slow - Accidents do happen - anything that can help reduce the likelyhood of that happening should be encouraged.I personally would like to see magnetic signs similar to these made available at discount to MVT members throught the club shop or other outlets via forums /club shops etc.... - im sure buying in bulk a decent deal could be struck ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puff Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 Jack, I hear you and I know what you mean, but seeing as in the past two weeks I've seen two of my friends finish up in intensive care due to cars pulling out in front of them and one in the morgue from bring T-boned, please allow me a little slack here. We've all heard that speed kills, and every time that there is a hideous accident someone always rolls out the usual platitudes that ever lower speed limits are a good thing and that we need to roll ourselves up in hi-viz tape and flashing lights until we squeak when we breath and electrocute ourselves when it rains, but I would rather sit pillion with Valentino Rossi for a dash across europe than go to the shops with any number of blue rinse oap's who might as well be on Mars for all the awareness they have of their surroundings. Somewhere along the line somebody forgot to mention that a driving licence is not a God given right, but something that you have to deserve. When I took my HGV it was a long drawn out and nerve racking experience - but as cheap as chips to take. When I got my C+E a couple of years ago it was a walk in the park - and cost a fortune. Draw your own conclusions there. The roads are an increasingly dangerous place to be, this is true, and the fault lies in bad driving (not fast driving mind you - bad driving - two very different things indeed). Stopping distances, awareness and vehicle control are alien concepts to vast numbers of people that simply need their licences ripped to pieces before their eyes...Sorry for the outburst, but like I said, it hasn't been a great few days I wholeheartedly agree with you on that, you echo my views precisely. I'm fed up of idiot drivers out there on the road who drive wrecklesly, and I've had a near head on collision on a blind corner on a narrow road because the daft woman coming the other way was paying more attention to texting at the wheel of her chealsea tractor than what she was driving! Fed up and pissed off doesn't even come close, and I plan to install a camera in my car very soon and shop these bastards to the Police! It's not the first time and just fed up seeing the same **** time and time again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 (edited) Drive as if everyone else is out to get you! Cynical but good advice. I've done offensive driving courses , defensive driving courses and as you all know drive a bus in London. (13 years now! You get less for murder!) The suprise is there are so few acidents with Military Vehicles, Daylights do help, sometimes, but the main thing that keeps you safe is youre Situational Awarness. Cycylists , pedestrians and even drivers with headsets and earphones , the mobile phone, and a lot of so called 'Proffesional' drivers are guilty of that! So be careful out there! A change in English law over the last few years, you can now be charged with Causing Death whilst driving without due care and attention. Before you could only be charged with Causing Death by Dangerous driving. A few stiff prison sentences where acidents have mobile phones as a factor rather than a fixed penalty may improve the situation. Edited July 11, 2013 by Tony B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
griff66 Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 if u think its bad here look on u tube for russian road accidents / road rage etc! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 if u think its bad here look on u tube for russian road accidents / road rage etc! Yes, and look at all the cameras fitted to Russian cars for just that purpose! If Insurers started insisting high risk drivers had to have cameras fitted, the Telemetric systems are a choclate tea pot that may well have an effect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
griff66 Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 agreed all artics for starters have vid cameras going. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 Our buses have between 11 and 16 cameras per vehicle, internal and external. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
griff66 Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 kin ell camera envy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 No more like Big B*stard is watching you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtistsRifles Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 Any news on the crew yet??? Vehicles can be repaired after all. As for the ability of drivers these days... Do not get me started - especially on motorways. I use the M11 fairly often now to get to the OT and the number of times already , as others have said, that other users just cut in front is beyond a joke. Not to mention the ones that can't be ar*ed to slow and pull in behind to take the slip road for their exit but instead accelerate past and take an almost 90 degree exit in front of me. Or who sit behind constantly flashing the headlamps because me overtaking another vehicle at 75 is too slow for them..... Grrrrrrrr And this is whilst using a modern vehicle. In the Landrover it's worse.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puff Posted July 13, 2013 Share Posted July 13, 2013 A driving licence is a privelage, not a right. Although a lot of people seem to think otherwise these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted July 13, 2013 Share Posted July 13, 2013 Always assuming they bother with such things as a licence and insurance and MOT. An ANPR car suddenly appeared in the area a few weeks ago. I saw them stopping 4 to 6 cars a day over the next couple of weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woa2 Posted July 13, 2013 Share Posted July 13, 2013 Always assuming they bother with such things as a licence and insurance and MOT. An ANPR car suddenly appeared in the area a few weeks ago. I saw them stopping 4 to 6 cars a day over the next couple of weeks. I remember the TV series 'Road Wars' where they found cars with no tax, insurance or licences, and the made this programme in the area where I live!!!! They even go past my house chasing a car. Also, anyone remember that bloke who got caught taking driving tests for others for money? I believe they charged him with 100 offences they found out about. Take care out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Shopland Posted July 13, 2013 Share Posted July 13, 2013 I hope very much that everyone involved in this sad event is ok, If not then I wish them a speedy recovery. I used to drive low loaders transporting railway locomotives and a lot of the time grossed well over a 100t. A little while after I purchased my first Diamond t I asked a couple of traffic officers (who were escorting me on a motorway) the question, what was the minimum speed for using a motorway? and I was told that a vehicle must be capable of travelling at at least 25mph on level road. There is no set minimum other than that, otherwise anyone in a traffic que would be breaking the law. I never drive my DT on motorways but I must say that for the drivers of larger vehicles there is the added problem of many of the A roads having a weight limit accept for access imposed to prevent heavy vehicles entering towns/villages and to sometimes force them onto motorways, meaning that you have to either use a motorway or risk the chance of being stopped for breaking a weight restriction. I also wish to say that some of the posts are coming across as though it is the fault of the Scammell driver because of speed, lights, travelling on a motorway ect. I have seen many images of lorrys and cars running into the back of slow moving vehicles even when being escorted by a pilot van or the police. Although they help, sometimes no amount of lights flashing or otherwise will prevent this from happening. If the lorry ran into the back of the Scammell it was the lorry drivers fault. Have to agree with you Steve; the driver of the Scammell can't be at fault if he is travelling along at his stately 25 MPH. The problems we have found using our big vehicles on A roads are numerous. If we want to travel long distances it is significantly more expensive and longer in time to use the A roads and secondly we cause all sorts of problems plus the ever increasing road restrictions. How many of us have been overtaken by some rash idiot on a blind bend? It is a matter of being sensible and taking considered precautions. The time I was hit in my Jeep on the M4 the coach driver admitted seeing me well before impact; he made a series of errors that resulted in has National Express bus hitting me. Motorways are a dangerous place and yes I would agree we should avoid them if possible but they are a necessary evil for those long journeys. ps. How many accidents are there on motorways daily? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferrettkitt Posted July 13, 2013 Share Posted July 13, 2013 ps. How many accidents are there on motorways daily? Supposedly the motorways r the safest roads in the country, when something does go pear shaped it happens in a big way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangie Posted July 13, 2013 Share Posted July 13, 2013 Also, anyone remember that bloke who got caught taking driving tests for others for money? I believe they charged him with 100 offences they found out about. Good grief, that's beyond a joke!!!!! :wow: Alec. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 Good grief, that's beyond a joke!!!!! :wow: Alec. Want a better one? An Examiner employed by a Catergory D training company was jailed for fraud a few years back. We all wondered how he could afford to run about in brand new BMW's. Answer was, he had been in collousion with another person. People had been offerd the chance to £3000 and garuntee they would pass thier test. Problem was he had also done my test about a year before. Very embarrasing ! Several of us were subject to discret observation, some were given the suggestion thier carrer might benifit from a change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruggyjohn Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 how fast is a scammell pioneer ? i think 25mph on a flat strech of road is asking too much of the old girl, and if so should it have been on the motorway to start with, not being judge and jury but i am restoring a pioneer and when finished i will low loader it rather than drive on a motorway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lauren Child Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 (edited) how fast is a scammell pioneer ? i think 25mph on a flat strech of road is asking too much of the old girl, and if so should it have been on the motorway to start with, not being judge and jury but i am restoring a pioneer and when finished i will low loader it rather than drive on a motorway. While I'm not sure I'd have driven her on the motorway given the dangerous driving I've experienced of some other road users, that's not really the point. It's sad that something like this happens in the first place. Whoever's fault the accident itself was, I have to wonder about any other driver who is driving so badly they can't avoid or react to a slow moving vehicle like a Pioneer/Explorer. Crikey, it's not like its going to make any sudden surprising moves. If something slow is in your way, slow down to a sensible speed that you can react with and go around it. Edited July 14, 2013 by Lauren Child Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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