Scammell Accident

[Smithy]

Just seen this on Facebook:

 

Hope everyone is ok involved. Pioneer doesn't look too good.

 

Scott

[Marmite!!]

Hope the driver is ok..

 

For those not on Facebook a bit more info..

 

Post War Military Vehicle Club

 

Serious incident on M40 northbound Buckinghamshire involving a Scammel Explorer with living trailer and a Artic, happen early this morning. Sounds like the artic went into the rear of the Scammel combo at speed.

No further details are available at the moment, we will keep you posted if we hear of anything. Our thoughts are with all those concerned with this serious incident.

Thanks to Az and Neil for the info...

 

 

Neil Thomas I passed it at 03:00 this morning,Scammell which I thought was an Explorer actually in th photo on the back of the landol trailer looks a bit Pioneerish. Either way,it was upside down,wouldn't want to be thrown round about in the cab whilst that was happening. Either way and unfortunately it didn't look good,thoughts go out to those involved.

[Niels v]

A very sad sight, hope that the people are alright.

[ArtistsRifles]

Bad news... As others have said - I hope the crew is OK after this. Machines are repairable. I know to my cost that the inside of an MV is not the place to be at such time.

[JEMIMA]

A sobering sight....and one that will give all a heavy heart.To echoe others - my thoughts and wishes to all involved.

It wrong to jump to comclusions as to blame / cause regarding this incident - We all need to remember that we are driving vehicles that are designed not to be seen on our ever busy roads . Closing speed is something that is measured in seconds and it often suprises how much ground can be covered in just a few.......

Additional lighting can only be a good thing - magnetic or temporary high viz cheverons or markings - even a high viz jacket tied securly to the back of a vehicle is a bonus - anything that helps to be seen is a good idea and should be encouraged.

 

In a former life as a police officer i visited a similar accident involving a vintage car and a modern car - the closing speed and force of the rear-end impact was catastophic and made me look at the way i present my own historic vehicles for road use.

I now change old/orriginal wartime lights for modern lights - suitably disguised but offering a brighter view and more reflection,especially important when in the middle of the road and waiting to turn right ,with the local roads around here being more like the Isle of Man TT at times. I also have magnetic / flourecent "SLOW VEHICLE" signs,A.R.B's - We have also encouraged all other club members,regardless of vehicle type to do the same.

 

Again - my thoughts and best wishes to all those involved................

[Greenlanekit]

Very sad, hope people walked away from that.

 

Modern lights and warning lights I'd say are absolutley vital, esp with W&P coming up. OK so they look ugly but no-one expects a slow moving vehicle on the main road or motorway. As a motorcycle rider and MV owner you have to take it that 95% of drivers should not be driving as they have no aptitude or think more than 2ft in front of them. Happened to a friend of mine on the A2 late at night, he was running 6v rear lights, some guy ran up the back of him at 60mph. Safe to say that I gave him a little chat when I found out the light situation. Extremely lucky no-one ended up not going home that night, if you get my meaning. Don't know the circumstances to this of course, but we have to do all we can to be seen in slow moving vehicles.

[Gordon_M]

I remember Bob James got hit in his DUKW in a very similar situation.

 

Has to be said I wouldn't like to be in the cab of an artic that rear-ended a Scammell at speed either, even with a living van as a cushion. :-(

[Niels v]

I have a rotary light, modern rear lights, a large orange reflective triangel on my Scammell. In Denmark vehicles not capable of going more than 45kmh are not allowed on highways this includes argro tractors which are limited to max 30 kmh

[ruxy]

Strong sunlight just now, under certain conditions you don't see all. Yesterday I was following a white van at speed down a steep hill , noticed the van brake-lights BUT did not see the transporter trailer lights until he entered a shaded part of the road under some trees. There was me preparing to get close behind to overtake on the next straight stretch !

[Scammell4199]

This is terrible news, a Pioneer cab is a surprisingly flimsy construction and wouldn't be a good place to be in a crash. Hope everyone is ok. Sad as it is he shouldn't have been on the motorway since a pioneer isn't capable of the minimum required speed for a motorway.

 

Richard

[John Comber]

What a shame, I too feel for the crew and hope no one is hurt too much, unfortunately not good publicity for our hobby, I would expect the scammell at a slow speed will be held in many peoples eyes as at fault even though hit from the rear.

As far as being well lit is concerned being seen is the motto however you could have a lighthouse strapped to the back, but if that tailender is asleep coming up behind you I'm afraid it's not your day.

[Jessie The Jeep]

You've got to question the wisdom of using a motorway in something big and slow, considering the lack of awareness of the drivers of modern vehicles. Since getting the Dodge, I've avoided motorways almost completely. There's only one trip I make that uses one junction of a motorway, and for those two miles, I'm looking through the rear view mirror constantly, ready to hit the hard shoulder if someone comes too close too fast.

 

There are almost always 'A' roads near by that are usually slower, but perhaps a bit longer and more fuel thirsty. I go for the 'A' roads every time. So what if you get a huge queue behind you, you can always pull over every so often to let them past. Big HGV's don't use 'A' roads as much, and when they do, their speeds are much more limited than on motorways.

 

Plan your route carefully everyone, even if it costs a few extra gallons of fuel.

[rustexpert]

Nasty crash; local reports are that drivers are o.k. There isn't a minimum speed requirement for U.K. motorways. This incident isn't good for the image of our movement in general. I hope it doesn't make the wider press.

[cordenj]

Much has been said on this subject on the forum.

 

Please see: http://hmvf.co.uk/forumvb/showthread.php?25210-IMPORTANT-SAFETY-ISSUE-Driving-vintage-Military-Vehicles-on-High-Speed-Roads

 

I paticularly draw attention to my post #124 there: http://hmvf.co.uk/forumvb/showthread.php?25210-IMPORTANT-SAFETY-ISSUE-Driving-vintage-Military-Vehicles-on-High-Speed-Roads/page13

 

A reminder: This forum is open for all to read.

[diamond-t-steve]

I hope very much that everyone involved in this sad event is ok, If not then I wish them a speedy recovery.

 

I used to drive low loaders transporting railway locomotives and a lot of the time grossed well over a 100t. A little while after I purchased my first Diamond t I asked a couple of traffic officers (who were escorting me on a motorway) the question, what was the minimum speed for using a motorway? and I was told that a vehicle must be capable of travelling at at least 25mph on level road. There is no set minimum other than that, otherwise anyone in a traffic que would be breaking the law.

I never drive my DT on motorways but I must say that for the drivers of larger vehicles there is the added problem of many of the A roads having a weight limit accept for access imposed to prevent heavy vehicles entering towns/villages and to sometimes force them onto motorways, meaning that you have to either use a motorway or risk the chance of being stopped for breaking a weight restriction.

I also wish to say that some of the posts are coming across as though it is the fault of the Scammell driver because of speed, lights, travelling on a motorway ect. I have seen many images of lorrys and cars running into the back of slow moving vehicles even when being escorted by a pilot van or the police. Although they help, sometimes no amount of lights flashing or otherwise will prevent this from happening. If the lorry ran into the back of the Scammell it was the lorry drivers fault.

Edited July 11, 2013 by diamond-t-steve

[Ian L]

I hope very much that everyone involved in this sad event is ok, If not then I wish them a speedy recovery.

 

I used to drive low loaders transporting railway locomotives and a lot of the time grossed well over a 100t. A little while after I purchased my first Diamond t I asked a couple of traffic officers (who were escorting me on a motorway) the question, what was the minimum speed for using a motorway? and I was told that a vehicle must be capable of travelling at at least 25mph on level road. There is no set minimum other than that, otherwise anyone in a traffic que would be breaking the law.

I never drive my DT on motorways but I must say that for the drivers of larger vehicles there is the added problem of many of the A roads having a weight limit accept for access imposed to prevent heavy vehicles entering towns/villages and to sometimes force them onto motorways, meaning that you have to either use a motorway or risk the chance of being stopped for breaking a weight restriction.

I also wish to say that some of the posts are coming across as though it is the fault of the Scammell driver because of speed, lights, travelling on a motorway ect. I have seen many images of lorrys and cars running into the back of slow moving vehicles even when being escorted by a pilot van or the police. Although they help, sometimes no amount of lights flashing or otherwise will prevent this from happening. If the lorry ran into the back of the Scammell it was the lorry drivers fault.

 

Are you sure about the 25mph minimum speed limit on Motorways ? according to the highway code there is no minimum speed unless advised on a blue sign.

[Tony B]

The only enforced 'Minimum' Speed limit I can think of is at the Dartford tunnel. Not the bridge the tunnel. As Ian L says the road sign is a blue circle with white edge. The speed is shown in white numerals.

[N.O.S.]

I think they mean there is no minimum speed but you're not allowed on there in the first place unless the vehicle is CAPABLE of doing at least 25mph.

[ruggyjohn]

Are you sure about the 25mph minimum speed limit on Motorways ? according to the highway code there is no minimum speed unless advised on a blue sign.

Yes there is a minimum speed required, tractors are not allowed on motorways due to there slow speeds, 40k-50k and there are signs before some motorways directing slow vehicles on alternative routes.

[Tony B]

Er, sorry mate, but that don't make sense. You have no speed limit but must be able to do at least 25 mph? If a vehicle is incapable of doing more than 25 mph it becomes a slow moving vehicle and must dispaly amber flashing beacons. Mind you the 'Official' website is about as clear as mud.

 

Prohibited vehicles. Motorways MUST NOT be used by pedestrians, holders of provisional motorcycle or car licences, riders of motorcycles under 50 cc, cyclists, horse riders, certain slow-moving vehicles and those carrying oversized loads (except by special permission), agricultural vehicles, and powered wheelchairs/powered mobility scooters (see Rules 36-46 incl).

 

Actually . You MAY drive on a Motorway with a provisonal C C+E or D or D+E licence.

[diamond-t-steve]

I should have worded it better.

 

You can travel at any speed below 70mph on a motorway but your vehicle must be capable of at least 25mph on level road to be able to travel on a motorway.

[Ian L]

Anyway common sense must prevail & even when traveling at 37-40 MPH in the Austin I'm always aware of the closing speed behind me so in my opinion 25mph is far too slow on Motorways with modern high speed traffic what ever the law says.:saluting:

[diamond-t-steve]

There are some sections of motorway in the UK that have a long and steep incline for example Windy Hill on the M62 and the M20 in Kent. Even some modern lorries slow to a crawl when loaded going up these hills They do not have flashing lights.

 

Sadly in this world some people look no further ahead than the end of their bonnet and no matter what precautions you take they will still run into you.

[woa2]

Sadly in this world some people look no further ahead than the end of their bonnet and no matter what precautions you take they will still run into you.

 

I must agree with you. Also included are the drivers who get in front of you and think the stopping distance at 60mph is 20 feet!!

[AndyFowler]

I've been working on my Scammell the last few days and I have not been able to get this out of my thoughts since I first heard ! I don't know the details of the crash so I won't speculate on the cause but I hope all those involved haven't sustained any life changing injuries and have a speedy recovery ! Very sad end to the old Scammell !