bobs1918 Posted May 9, 2013 Author Share Posted May 9, 2013 Details details details and how to accomplish them is what keeps these projects stimulating. For me the recreation of the ww 1 vehicle data plates was one of those "details" I did not want to remove the original riveted plates so I had to replicate them where they stood. Using a polyvinylsilxene dental impression material I made a copy of the two plates. Next I created a positive cast using a dental plaster of paris. These casts were cleaned up and sent to a foundry to have bronze castings made using the sand casting technique. The originals are the last 2 pictured bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great War truck Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 Those are great replica plates. In fact the whole Dodge is outstanding. It is nice to see another WW1 era truck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gustaf Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 You make this look easy, I know it is not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Bill Posted May 19, 2013 Share Posted May 19, 2013 Details details details and how to accomplish them is what keeps these projects stimulating. bob Quite right. The challenge is everything. If it was too easy, we wouldn't do it! I hadn't thought of Dental resin. That has worked well with a lovely result. How did you obtain the materials? Perhaps I am just being dim and should ask Mr Google. One other thing intrigues me and that was how you set all of those rivets? I have found using such large rivets in thin plate troublesome as they tend to roll over in the snap and twist the plate locally. Nice job. Keep it up! Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon_M Posted May 19, 2013 Share Posted May 19, 2013 I've been known to do a bit of riveting like that. I found I needed to have the correct snap and set tools, and for best results I had to start with an over-length dome headed rivet and adjust the length by grinding it back till I got the correct head form on the other side. The rule of thumb is you need a length of twice the rivet diameter standing proud before you start work, so for a 3/16" diameter rivet, you need 3/8" of rivet shank protruding after it has bridged whatever you are riveting. No problem usually for sheet metal, but the thickness of those plates would have to be allowed for. I ground back the riveting snap tool till it fitted my little air chisel / needle gun, and I found that rotating the tool while riveting allowed me to catch any rivet shanks that try to go off line, with just the odd one getting severely out of shape and having to be knocked out and re-done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobs1918 Posted May 19, 2013 Author Share Posted May 19, 2013 Quite right. The challenge is everything. If it was too easy, we wouldn't do it! I hadn't thought of Dental resin. That has worked well with a lovely result. How did you obtain the materials? Perhaps I am just being dim and should ask Mr Google. One other thing intrigues me and that was how you set all of those rivets? I have found using such large rivets in thin plate troublesome as they tend to roll over in the snap and twist the plate locally. Nice job. Keep it up! Steve Steve the dental impression material came from a local dentist's office. I made the frame to support it with thin perforated aluminum as used to make grill covers for home radiators. The material needed to be contained when the mold was taken. The detailed plaster of paris was from the same source. The impression material is very expensive but I was given some out of date stuff and worked fine. I had the warm the metal with a hair dryer as the dental materials are designed to set at body temperature. ... Good point on rivets and thin plate.......In areas susceptible to warping we used a heat sink of thick metal plate clamped bolted or otherwise affixed as close to the rivet site. This absorbed enough excess heat to keep the twisting to a minimum. We also kept the area firmly bolted on either side of the rivet hole (when possible) to keep the work stable. Some slight twist was unavoidable. bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobs1918 Posted May 19, 2013 Author Share Posted May 19, 2013 I've been known to do a bit of riveting like that. I found I needed to have the correct snap and set tools, and for best results I had to start with an over-length dome headed rivet and adjust the length by grinding it back till I got the correct head form on the other side. The rule of thumb is you need a length of twice the rivet diameter standing proud before you start work, so for a 3/16" diameter rivet, you need 3/8" of rivet shank protruding after it has bridged whatever you are riveting. No problem usually for sheet metal, but the thickness of those plates would have to be allowed for. I ground back the riveting snap tool till it fitted my little air chisel / needle gun, and I found that rotating the tool while riveting allowed me to catch any rivet shanks that try to go off line, with just the odd one getting severely out of shape and having to be knocked out and re-done. Yes indeed..we had to make a few tools for botH the setting side AND the bucking side as access was limited in certain tight spots. The more mass the bucking bar had the easier to hold the head in place. There were a few spots that required round heads to be formed on the working side . This required a rCupped setting tool to be used in the rivet gun rather than the flat one. ALL 3/8 in rivets were set red hot.You can see one picture shows a heat sink in use. bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon_M Posted May 19, 2013 Share Posted May 19, 2013 It's a tricky process, but satisfying when it works. I tried various tweaks but ended up doing all my rivets up to 3/16" cold just using pneumatic impact. I managed a few hot, by induction, but it wasn't being kind to the spot welder I was using as the source so I went back to cold forming.he rule seems to be to hold the inside and form the outside That sort of body would originally have been formed in sections, but on final assembly the rule seems to be to hold the inside and form the outside. I wonder if originally those were flat headed rivets with domes formed on the outside and you have achieved the same result by doing it the other way? Are the heads on the inside face of the original body absolutely flat? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobs1918 Posted May 19, 2013 Author Share Posted May 19, 2013 It's a tricky process, but satisfying when it works. I tried various tweaks but ended up doing all my rivets up to 3/16" cold just using pneumatic impact. I managed a few hot, by induction, but it wasn't being kind to the spot welder I was using as the source so I went back to cold forming.he rule seems to be to hold the inside and form the outside That sort of body would originally have been formed in sections, but on final assembly the rule seems to be to hold the inside and form the outside. I wonder if originally those were flat headed rivets with domes formed on the outside and you have achieved the same result by doing it the other way? Are the heads on the inside face of the original body absolutely flat? Gordon The rivets were set as were the originals.The flat sides on the original show that all the peening was done on that side. Also the manual even lists the "3/8 inch round head rivets" to be used in the construction bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon_M Posted May 20, 2013 Share Posted May 20, 2013 Thanks Bob, I'd guess they used whatever they were familiar with and they knew would work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobs1918 Posted May 24, 2013 Author Share Posted May 24, 2013 The engine on the original repair trucks were standard Dodge brothers 4 cylinder. They did not have a starter generator. There were no electric headlamps nor electric starters. The used Eisemann magnetos with a fixed crank starter. For the clone I chose to rebuild a 4 cylinder Dodge Engine identical to the originals. It was from about 1921. I opted to include for now the starter generator and I placed a battery in the regular position as on DB vehicles under the front seat affixed to the frame rail. In order for the truck to have a fixed crank as well it was necessary to modify a dodge crank and fabricate a housing for it that would thread into the front motor mount which would replace the crank hole cover. The assembly has been made but not yet installed.Shown first is the original crank assembly . It is spring loaded to allow for a quick return after the crank cycle. There is a stop bolt installed through the motor mount housing to prevent the crank from pulling out of the assembly .Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gustaf Posted May 25, 2013 Share Posted May 25, 2013 This thread makes me want to get 500 gallons of polyvinylsilxene dental impression material and come and get an impression of your vehicle and cast a copy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flandersflyer Posted May 25, 2013 Share Posted May 25, 2013 Thanks Bob, I'd guess they used whatever they were familiar with and they knew would work. they may have used a hydraulic bolster to set `em... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BosunAl Posted December 24, 2013 Share Posted December 24, 2013 GordonAll of the US Army Dodge vehicles came with 7 lug Kelsey Hayes wooden wheels.The clone came with 6 lug Stanweld wheels which were passenger car type. Although most US vehicles stayed with the 7 lug wheels there are photos that show full metal disc types as were used by both the French and the Italians. I decided early on that if I could not get the unobtainable 7 lug wood wheels I would attempt to locate a set of discs.Dodge would not offer them on US vehicles until 1922 so these are actually 1922 era. The name plate inside the wheel reads Michelin-Budd wheel (the french connection). The Firestone NON-SKIDS are original to the period. They made them until ww2 and are not being reproduced. I now have NOS on front and rear.Here is a picture of disc wheels on US ww 1 vehicles which were retrofitted for a more durable wheel on rough terrain[ATTACH=CONFIG]75582[/ATTACH] The discs are 24 inch the wooden artillery wheels are 25 inch which lowers the stance of the clone, bob Most interesting series showing some beautiful workmanship. By any chance do you have images of French or Italian Dodges with the disc wheels! Bosun Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobs1918 Posted December 26, 2013 Author Share Posted December 26, 2013 (edited) Al I did not mean to infer that dodges were used by French or Italian forces. I was only referring to DISC wheels!! To reiterate when I constructed the clone the correct wheels were not available. Period pictures of other vehicles (Cadillac below) and light trucks showed the use of the disc wheels.It also appears to be a RFC tender employing them . I took the liberty to use them on my truck but never did I come across a picture of such usage on light repair trucks. Fact is there are few pictures of repair trucks. I have not seen them on Dodges but the following pictures does show their usage so the possibility exists. bob Edited December 26, 2013 by bobs1918 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Peskett Posted December 26, 2013 Share Posted December 26, 2013 The truck in view is a 15 TER Fiat , 30 cwt. Michelin disc wheels, 880 x 120mm beaded edge tyres. Richard Peskett. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charawacky Posted December 26, 2013 Share Posted December 26, 2013 The image with the Fiat and Trailer is probably in Verdun as the company 'Driving forces of the Meuse' is located in the building behind and was incorporated in Verdun in 1913 if Google translate is to be believed. What their business would be I can only guess, perhaps motoring? Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobs1918 Posted December 27, 2013 Author Share Posted December 27, 2013 Thanks to you both.I am not real sharp on the non US vehicles but this forum has greatly enlightened me. The AEF did not to my knowledge have any small trucks or passenger cars equipped with disc wheels. We "appropriated" them from our allies and that was my intention when I used them on my replica repair truck. Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobs1918 Posted August 14, 2014 Author Share Posted August 14, 2014 I haven't posted in a while as I was working on other projects I thought I would share my further progress on the replication of my Model 1918 Dodge Light Repair Truck . There are only 4 original repair trucks known to still exist of the slightly more than 1000 that were made for the US Army . The canvas on the clone is partially done . The folding drivers canopy frame has been installed. The fixed crank has been installed. Still working on the spare tire carrier. I can report the truck runs real well. Now I just need a place to go where other Great War vehicles play! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon_M Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 Very nice. You can tell that isn't round here as it isn't raining ... When I look at the cab hood frame I can see the origins of the hoods found on the WW2 Command Cars. Gordon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enigma Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 Great result, looks like it is a Original one. Well done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deruos Posted March 27, 2020 Share Posted March 27, 2020 Hello Bobs1918 Congratulations ! Wonderful work ! I'm a french modeler and I would built a model of this Dodge light repair truck. I tried in vain to find a model kit of a Dodge brothers car. It does not exist anywhere. I must then build this 1/35 model in scratch but I need blueprints or scale drawings and know exact dimensions of the vehicle. Could you help me please and share the documents you used for your work? Kind regard from France; Jean-René Chatillon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deruos Posted May 1, 2020 Share Posted May 1, 2020 From some pictures seen on this forum; I made a 3D model of the Dodge light repair truck. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BosunAl Posted May 1, 2020 Share Posted May 1, 2020 Nicely done! Bosun Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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