1943 Ford gpw starting problem

[spitfirebob]

Hi all

I currently own a 1943 ford gpw which is refusing to start!

Have bought new battery but no help, turns over very very slowly until battery loses too much charge.

Tried turning over with starting handle but wont start even then. Did notice that floor start button was getting quite hot and also earth from starter motor to body was hot!

Please can anyone help???

Thanks

Bob

[Tony B]

Obvoius questions first. Is the engine turning over freely? Are you getting a spark at the plugs, and is the fuel getting up?As for switches and earth lead, disconnect and clean everything up bright first. Six or 12 volt?

[deadline]

You have an electrical issue. The motor *could* be out of time, or the distributor 180deg out, but I am starting ont he premise that the motor was running, you just experienced slow starting.

 

My jeep starts wonderfully on 6v and an original WWII starter.

 

Go to the store get a tube of dielectric grease. A small tube will suffice, also you will need a commutator stone. DO NOT USE SAND PAPER. Also a small wire brush (toothbrush sized is best).

 

Starting at the copper lug on the starter, take off the nut and wire, clean the copper lug and end of wire with brush. Make it shine! Before assembly dab on the dielectric to the copper lug and make sure you use a NEW star washers. Work your way back doing the exact same thing at the foot switch then battery terminal. Then go from the ground pole on the battery, to the ground strap, to the grand strap to frame bolt.

 

Try starting again.

 

If it doesn't start, or is very slow take off the starter, remove the brush cover and take out 1 brush from the holder, use the commutator stone to make the commutator shine. Inspect the brush (should be at about 2cm long and flat at the tip that rides on the commutator and commutator proper. If either has deep gouges or worn irregularly they need to be fixed/ or replaced.

 

That's all there is to it. Your 6 volts needs a very low resistance and corrosion/dirt/grease on the contact points is the number one reason for slow starting.

 

Now if your motor didn't start freely BEFORE the new starter then its something else.

 

You might need a new foot switch, but try this first... 90% of the time cleaning the grounds and polishing the commutator solves the issue.

Edited March 25, 2013 by deadline

[spitfirebob]

H Tony

Sorry for being a bit vague

Its still on 6v system, was turning over ok but slowly (but this is 6v system so common)

Will check for all symptoms youve stated.

Thanks for reply

Cheers

Bob

[spitfirebob]

deadline;361362]You have an electrical issue. The motor *could* be out of time, or the distributor 180deg out, but I am starting ont he premise that the motor was running, you just experienced slow starting.

 

My jeep starts wonderfully on 6v and an original WWII starter.

 

Go to the store get a tube of dielectric grease. A small tube will suffice, also you will need a commutator stone. DO NOT USE SAND PAPER. Also a small wire brush (toothbrush sized is best).

 

Starting at the copper lug on the starter, take off the nut and wire, clean the copper lug and end of wire with brush. Make it shine! Before assembly dab on the dielectric to the copper lug and make sure you use a NEW star washers. Work your way back doing the exact same thing at the foot switch then battery terminal. Then go from the ground pole on the battery, to the ground strap, to the grand strap to frame bolt.

 

Try starting again.

 

If it doesn't start, or is very slow take off the starter, remove the brush cover and take out 1 brush from the holder, use the commutator stone to make the commutator shine. Inspect the brush (should be at about 2cm long and flat at the tip that rides on the commutator and commutator proper. If either has deep gouges or worn irregularly they need to be fixed/ or replaced.

 

That's all there is to it. Your 6 volts needs a very low resistance and corrosion/dirt/grease on the contact points is the number one reason for slow starting.

 

Now if your motor didn't start freely BEFORE the new starter then its something else.

 

You might need a new foot switch, but try this first... 90% of the time cleaning the grounds and polishing the commutator solves the issue.

 

Thanks for advice will try cleaning contacts up

Cheers

Bob

Edited March 25, 2013 by spitfirebob

[Tony B]

Actually my 6 volt turns over quite quickly. It is a matter of cleanliness being more important than godliness. :-D I have a very good spray protective wax for my electrical components, but if you can get Shellac varnish once everything is clean and tight! Give it a coat of that. Dosen't hurt to add a second thick earth strap to a diffrent earth.

[deadline]

H Tony

 

Its still on 6v system, was turning over ok but slowly (but this is 6v system so common)

 

 

I disagree. The only 'slow starters' are the ones that are not maintained. My motor used to turn over very slowly as most people experience, but after cleaning things up it starts on the first revolution and that takes about 1 second.

 

Like the 'leaning spring' syndrome slow starting in based more in myth an poor maintenance that actual deign and ability of the system.

[arcot1751]

My GPW which was still on a 6v system was sluggish turning over when I first bought it. I figured what was good enough when the bullets were flying was good enough for me so I decided to stick with 6v. I searched the internet and found a site in America that said pretty much the same. Most problems with sluggish starters are an earthing issue, I found that the earth leads on my jeep were 12v ones these are not able to take the load, 6v earth leads are much thicker and once I changed my earth leads for the correct 6v items my jeep spins over much faster than many of my friends 12v and 24v jeeps. Another tip is if the jeep has been stood for a while always prime the carb by manually pumping the fuel up this avoids using alot of your batterys power trying to supply fuel. The 6v system obviously means that should you drain the battery doing this there will be a weaker spark as the battery winds down , you will often find in this case that the jeep fires just as you release the starter and the remaining battery power goes to the points. My jeep NEVER failed to start once I addressed these issues. Hope this helps ? :-)

[Tony B]

Power= Voltage x amps so to make the same power a 6 volt neeeds twice the amps of a 12 volt. As current runs ON a wire not in it, is is the surface area that is important, and clean tight bounds. The other thing is consider investing in an electronic ignition, lot easier and more reliable than conventional. So saying Katy my 6 volt WC54 started on convetional, despite being set 22 before TDC! You can jump start from 12 volt BUT turn all lights off and just touch the jump leads, as soon as it fires take away! The new type gel battreies are amazing and hold charge for a long time, but are ***** expensive. I have a standard 6 volt lead acid which works fine.

Edited March 25, 2013 by Tony B

[spitfirebob]

Managed to start jeep

! Think problem may be fuel related as when i primed pump i could hear air being expelled in carb.engine fired then died , started up again and was a bit spluttery then ran fine.

After that seems ok and starts well

[Tony B]

Replace any flexi pipes! :-D

[arcot1751]

Managed to start jeep

! Think problem may be fuel related as when i primed pump i could hear air being expelled in carb.engine fired then died , started up again and was a bit spluttery then ran fine.

After that seems ok and starts well

 

Hello again Bob, Glad you got the jeep started, as I said earlier I always hand prime if the vehicle has been stood for a few days and it does make a big difference. It saves the battery having to turn the engine over to prime the pump so less strain on both the battery and the starter and your nerves !

[deadline]

No fuel in the fuel bowl is still not a reason for slow cranking.

 

You should, on a charged battery, be able to crank for at least 10 seconds before noticing any slow down, which is more then enough revolutions to prime the fuel pump and get petrol to the carb.

 

I believe the TMs have the actual RPMs that the motor should turn over when using the starter.. but off the top of my head I cannot recall it.

 

Ground points affect all MVs. My 24VDC M35A2 still had ground issues (fuel pump, turn signals) and that had 2 12VDC 1000CCA batteries in series... bad grounding is bad grounding at any voltage.

[arcot1751]

No fuel in the fuel bowl is still not a reason for slow cranking.

 

You should, on a charged battery, be able to crank for at least 10 seconds before noticing any slow down, which is more then enough revolutions to prime the fuel pump and get petrol to the carb.

 

I believe the TMs have the actual RPMs that the motor should turn over when using the starter.. but off the top of my head I cannot recall it.

 

Ground points affect all MVs. My 24VDC M35A2 still had ground issues (fuel pump, turn signals) and that had 2 12VDC 1000CCA batteries in series... bad grounding is bad grounding at any voltage.

 

Yes I already advised that there may be a problem with the earthing or battery I had the same problem with my Jeep and it was a simple fix 6v earth leads instead of the 12v earths fitted, however it is easier on the battery to manually prime the pump after a period lay up, every little helps ! My jeep once leads were changed to correct ones started 1st time in Pickering in thick frost every morning a couple of years ago when many 12v converted jeeps wouldn't. There is nothing wrong with 6v systems if they are looked after AND the earths are both correct 6v rated and they actually earth. :-)

[deadline]

One tip for the older valve type fuel pumps is to use a fuel proof non hardening sealant in the valve seat to prevent drain back. The theory is that if the fuel tank creates a vacuum and the fuel cap does not vent it, the fuel in the line will not be siphoned back. Not sure if I believe it.

 

I know the fuel in the carb, after a few days can evaporate, but a properly working pump and sealed lines should not take more than a few seconds of cranking to get fuel from the filter/tank to the carb.

[arcot1751]

One tip for the older valve type fuel pumps is to use a fuel proof non hardening sealant in the valve seat to prevent drain back. The theory is that if the fuel tank creates a vacuum and the fuel cap does not vent it, the fuel in the line will not be siphoned back. Not sure if I believe it.

 

I know the fuel in the carb, after a few days can evaporate, but a properly working pump and sealed lines should not take more than a few seconds of cranking to get fuel from the filter/tank to the carb.

 

My pump is a brand new one and yes it pumps strongly but I still primed the carb if the jeep has been unused for few weeks which remembering last summer happened alot. I had heard there is a one way valve to stop drain back of fuel but as I said my jeep started virtually instantly every time once the earthing was sorted. Maybe priming the carb is not necessary but I like to save the strain on the original starter when a couple of seconds pumping the fuel by hand counts as my daily workout :-D

[Tony B]

Hand priming the carb, or pouring the fuel into the top, does automatically rich the carb, so gets to be art balancing choke and throttle. The good thing is she runs! A genral moochabout, check things, service and grease isn't a bad start of season thing anyway.

[exlandieman]

most probs with hot/slow starters and buttons isn't just the earth connection from the battery to chassis but more usually the engine or gearbox earth lead to the chassis which quite often are overlooked or missed off when replacing engines etc.

Chris

[deadline]

Hand priming the carb, or pouring the fuel into the top, does automatically rich the carb, so gets to be art balancing choke and throttle. The good thing is she runs! A genral moochabout, check things, service and grease isn't a bad start of season thing anyway.

 

Very true.

 

I start each year by doing the 6000 mile Technical inspection... its just such a good list and goes over everything. Takes a full weekend to do if I keep at it (about 8-10 hours) but once its done I'm serviced for the the full year other than checking fluid levels.

 

If you google 'FORM 461' you will find several PDF copies are available. Excellent reference and provides a complete once over.