Smithy Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 Courtesy of the Post War Military Vehicle Club One of the Freer's vehicles I think. Nptimber on the forum I'm led to believe. Thanks for the pictures Neil. Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick W Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 It was a great weekend, lessons will always be learnt, but a cracking show especially as it is only in its third year. If you want a rear radio man I'll volunteer for next year. I was surprised to see the kids climbing all over it, but in a way it's good that you feel you can let them do that. I get twitchy when they crawl over the jeep, pulling and rattling wheels and levers, fair play to you for that. Friendly weekend, great people. Plus the marshals did cordon off a fair sized area when bringing the Freer Scammel in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmite!! Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 From another angle... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 I would hope the whole incident is being investigated by the MVT as that is a combination of errors that could have seriously cost lives. Lucky day for everyone involved and a lucky day for our hobby. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gas 44 Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 I would hope the whole incident is being investigated by the MVT as that is a combination of errors that could have seriously cost lives. Lucky day for everyone involved and a lucky day for our hobby. I'm sure it will be Jack, in the same way wheels falling of trucks was Anyway as you can see from that angle the marshalls jumped to it pretty quick....that situation HAS to go down to driver/crew. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmite!! Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 .that situation HAS to go down to driver/crew. Disagree with that, not 100% down to driver/crew. Risk Assessment seems to be lacking, inadequate crowd control/Poor Marshaling.. Who decided that the Crew was qualified to take to the water? Who decided & inspected the Vehicle to decide that it was fit for purposes.. (Taking to the water... ) I know Neil very well & he is a good friend, what I'm about to say is in no way meant as an insult. Neil is a rather well built chap & does not find it easy getting in & out of the OT, if the OT had taken on water & gone under then there was NO way Neil would of been able to get out.. Again.. Risk Assessment.. This should be a wake up call for ALL Show Organisers. We have water available to us at the Bunker Bash, we decided in the early days of the show that we would never use it after a thorougher Risk Assessment coupled with the fact that our Insurance Company said that they would never cover us on our PLI.. Surprised that the show got cover for vehicles taking to the water... I'm positive that the owners Standard Policies don't cover this. There are Dozens of other comments re the lack of/Poor Marshaling on Facebook & on Youtube from people that were there.. Lets hope people learn from this & turn a bad incident into something positive.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmite!! Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 I'm sure it will be Jack, in the same way wheels falling of trucks was I'm sure Jack now checks his Nuts everyday Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 I'm sure Jack now checks his Nuts everyday They went when my GMC went Gary checks them everyday for me now :whistle::shocked: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmite!! Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 Anyway as you can see from that angle the marshalls jumped to it pretty quick.... Me & you must be watching different videos.. there was no Quick about it.. Neil had already Hit the wall when the Marshal jumped in... There was approx 27 seconds form when Neil started moving backward to when he hit the wall, that's when the marshal jumped in, the public should of been moved as soon as the OT started moving backwards.. It's lucky the OT got stuck on the wall, can you imagine what would of happened if it had climbed it at that speed.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cossy1 Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 with all the commits above its a wounded anybody would want to organise A show ,Hindsight is a wonderful thing wish I had it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmite!! Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 with all the commits above its a wounded anybody would want to organise A show ,Hindsight is a wonderful thing wish I had it. Being a show organiser of a major show I know the pitfalls, learn by your mistakes, we have over the last 7 years.. as said hope something positive comes out of this.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodgewc51 Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 What's happend has happend! ( thankfully nobody hurt ) Let's all learn from it and stop throwing mud. After all i thought in this hobby we helped each other not snipped at each other, let's leave that for the school yard. Alan:saluting: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great War truck Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 After all i thought in this hobby we helped each other not sniped at each other, let's leave that for the school yard. Alan:saluting: You must have gone to a rough school. Was it in Sarajevo? No, but seriously, you are right. Close call, no one got hurt. Lets make sure that we learn from this and we can keep on enjoying our hobby. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gas 44 Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 I cant help feeling this is turning into a witch hunt, of coarse there are some people on here who must be perfect and live in an ivory tower. Yes I agree this was an incedent that should not have happened, but as has already been said,it did and no one was hurt.....why dont we stop the mud slinging and be positive about the other 99% of the show that was great. Or is there a hidden agenda to slag off one show against anothe,r after all you have told us a couple of times that you are a major show organiser. Accidents happen geat over it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gas 44 Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 They went when my GMC went Gary checks them everyday for me now :whistle::shocked: Oh no I dont Jack, Im only human......not a superman;);) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locolines Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 Well, we went without our truck, and we had a great day. Lancaster was great, displays were good. We hopefully will book in as an exhibitor next year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmite!! Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 .Or is there a hidden agenda to slag off one show against anothe,r after all you have told us a couple of times that you are a major show organiser. Heard of Libel?? You couldn't be further from the truth, the show is no threat to ours in location or date & I was invited down by Tim Hawkes who actually had some involvement in our show.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 (edited) I don't think that's the case here Gary. HMVF does discuss incidents that happen at shows and on the roads. We heavily discuss what happens at the W&P show and using the helicopter incident for an example and then the crazies on quads etc etc and BB nuts and so on. This was a national show and could have seriously damaged the whole hobby. Many folks spend a lot of time pushing this hobby and our history forward. If this hobby is to self regulate then this incident is a massive wake up call to all of us. As we all know, MV's have blind spots everywhere but tracked vehicles are blindspot central and as we all know tracks and armour are a whole world a part from soft skins - they need a whole different approach and mindset in their handling. There are lessons as always to be gained from this BUT such a thing isn't rocket science but it is complacent. Edited June 11, 2013 by Jack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gas 44 Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 (edited) Heard of Libel?? You couldn't be further from the truth, the show is no threat to ours in location or date & I was invited down by Tim Hawkes who actually had some involvement in our show.. I'm not sure where the libel comes into this, I asked a question. Heres another, if you new Neil was at any risk as you stated and he is a friend of yours did, YOU advise him against swimming the ot after all risk assessment starts well before the show starts, I'm sure Tim Hawkes was under the impression Niel was quite capable of operating the OT even in the water. ( after reading earlier posts i now understand Niel had never swam the ot.........yikes ) Edited June 11, 2013 by gas 44 reading earlier post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gas 44 Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 I don't think that's the case here Gary. HMVF does discuss incidents that happen at shows and on the roads. We heavily discuss what happens at the W&P show and using the helicopter incident for an example and then the crazies on quads etc etc and BB nuts and so on. This was a national show and could have seriously damaged the whole hobby. Many folks spend a lot of time pushing this hobby and our history forward. If this hobby is to self regulate then this incident is a massive wake up call to all of us. As we all know, MV's have blind spots everywhere but tracked vehicles are blindspot central and as we all know tracks and armour are a whole world a part from soft skins - they need a whole different approach and mindset in their handling. There are lessons as always to be gained from this BUT such a thing isn't rocket science but it is complacent. Jack i totally agree with you sentiment. Im just bumping up my post count.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtistsRifles Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 Disagree with that, not 100% down to driver/crew. Risk Assessment seems to be lacking, inadequate crowd control/Poor Marshaling.. Who decided that the Crew was qualified to take to the water? Who decided & inspected the Vehicle to decide that it was fit for purposes.. (Taking to the water... ) I know Neil very well & he is a good friend, what I'm about to say is in no way meant as an insult. Neil is a rather well built chap & does not find it easy getting in & out of the OT, if the OT had taken on water & gone under then there was NO way Neil would of been able to get out.. <Snipped> No offence taken Lee It takes me time to get out of the hatch normally - if you had seen the life jacket I was wearing you would have to double the time it normally takes me!!! Never having taken the old girl in the water before neither I nor the two guys crewing knew what to expect either on land beforehand or in the water. Both guys were, however, experienced in crewing the vehicle on land. Unfortunately when faced with the prospect of going down fast the mind tends to concentrate on that fact to the exclusion of all else if the two involved are closest to the bit of the vehicle that appears to be sinking.. We learnt a lot of lessons from this that will be put into place if we ever got a chance to try again - and I would love to have another go! For starters we will not take to the water without a minimum of 3 crew on board - me, a commander and at least one man in the back all hooked into the intercom. Preferably one either side so 4 would be the ideal. We want to get hold of the type of life jacket issued to Stolly crews as this only adds minimally to the body profile - important when having to get through a circular hatch fast. Additionally the type we were issued had the unwanted side effect of pushing the crew helmet up off my head whenever I tried to turn my head. We would want to know the condition of the bottom of whatever we are going to try to swim in - we did not find out the lake bed was heavily silted up till after we got ashore again.... Tow cables will be obtained and shackled to the eyes fore and aft and ranged ready for use if necessary - we were actually told that for the first time in we would be hooked on via safety cables to a recovery vehicle - sadly this did not happen. I cannot comment on what happened on the bank as - quite literally - I did not see it. The marshalling I did see as we came out was effective as the crowds were kept well away from the tow cables and then the OT as she finally got traction and climbed out under her own power. I know nothing about the organising of shows so cannot and will not say anything there either save that it was a fun weekend and every one, exhibitors and public alike, seemed to be enjoying themselves. All the events were discussed with Tim during the show and I am sure he and his crew will have their own list of things to do differently next time - possibly this year was the first they had tried to swim heavy tracked armour???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
private mw Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 well neil your a braver man than me .good to see everyone was ok including yourself and the OT your pride and joy you say you will try and swim it again i take my hat off to you as said before accidents do happen look at that DUKW that sank in liverpool good luck in the future and if i see you at a show again i want a ride on dry land though.all the best Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cossy1 Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 I cant help feeling this is turning into a witch hunt, of coarse there are some people on here who must be perfect and live in an ivory tower.Yes I agree this was an incedent that should not have happened, but as has already been said,it did and no one was hurt.....why dont we stop the mud slinging and be positive about the other 99% of the show that was great. Or is there a hidden agenda to slag off one show against anothe,r after all you have told us a couple of times that you are a major show organiser. Accidents happen geat over it. Well said great show looking forward to next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanter Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 Not wanting to cause more trouble but in the air display environment all pilots have to be approved prior to displaying in front of the public, Marmite was asking who checked out the crew were capable of displaying on the water and the same questions were asked at the weekend, has it ever been suggested that before a vehicle enters a public arena it has been seen by the organisers and deemed 'responsible/suitable' for display? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick W Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 Well said great show looking forward to next year. It was a good weekend, and I for one will be offering my services to help out instead of apportioning blame on the organisers or whoever. Next year will be bigger and better and if I can help with that it will be an honour. I will post some photos once I can figure out the other halls camera! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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