Is this using the N word OK for a quick profit?

[Tony B]

Never underestimate the power of an oath Tottles. I too took the oath to the Soverign and heirs and succesors. (Though being a Jerseyman I have other special priviliges) Not to who ever happened to be Prime Minister at the time. The US Military take an oath to uphold the Constitusion, again not who ever is in the White House. Though the President of the USA is Commander in Chief, and in our system it is the Goverment who declare war, but the Soverign must approve. Hitler made a point of insisting all memebers swore alligence to him personally, as a deliberate act to undermine the political power of the armed forces. Stalin on the other hand extorted the people to defend Mother Russia, not the Communist Party. Britian did not declare war on Germany in 1914, not because France was invaded, the Goverment at the time reckoned that they wouldn't get popular support for that, it was the 'Scrap of Paper' upholding Belgium's neutrallity, that was the published reason for the declaration of war.

[Tootles]

Tony, I see where your coming from, but please allow me to quote a couple of the relevant 'oaths'. Firstly, the German model.

 

The Wehrmacht Oath of Loyalty toAdolf Hitler, 2 August 1934

"Iswear by God this sacred oath that to the Leader of the German empire andpeople, Adolf Hitler, supreme commander of the armed forces, I shall renderunconditional obedience and that as a brave soldier I shall at all times beprepared to give my life for this oath."

 

Now, the British version:

 

I, (Insert full name), do swear that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth, her heirs and successors, according to law. So help me God.

 

And lastly, the American model:

 

I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States and the State of (STATE NAME) against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the Governor of (STATE NAME) and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to law and regulations. So help me God.

 

Now, spank me with a Panzerfaust, but you can hardly drive a Deuce and a Half between the three, and not even a Jeep between the first two. As for your final bit mate, Britain declared war on Germany both in 1914, and 1939, but I'm struggling to see where that comes into it.

I'm not 'pro Nazi', in fact, far from it, but I am pro soldier, and my whole contention of remarks I made at the beginning of this thread was/is that the German fighting services of WW2 get a very bad press, because to the un-educated, its so much easier to refer to the whole as 'Nazi', then to be historically accurate.

[Tony B]

I knew a couple of members of the German armed forces of WW2 who had returned to Jersey, their homes having ended up behind the Iron Curtain. One in particular John, was the lovlest man you could ever meet, as kids we adored him, he gave us fruit from his garden, could always be trusted to settle arguments and was well respected by the community. As to the oaths, the key words in the American ansd and US are 'According to Law'. I don't have to remind you, obey an order and then argue, unless it is illegal. Hitler you notice Unconditional obedience to him. Hitler considered this vital to his consolidation of power. We both know you fight for your mates, not your country. When the muck is in the fan it is the guys around you that matter. As I said earlier a lot of the older people who lived through the Occupation of the Channel Islands say the German Armed Forces were very correct, and on a personnel level many of the Landsser were nice people, it was the groups like Organisiation Todt that were the nasty ones. However, don't expect total love when there are a bunch of armed men marching down the street, removing radios, sentencing you to prision or concentration camps if you listen to the BBC. 12 British Civillians dies in the Concentration Camps. These are events still in living memeory for most of Europe, and the Channel Islands, so it isn't suprising thjat there is a marked dislike. Hopefully the unthinking hatred will simmer down as time passes, but I do have difficulty seeing the armed forces of Germany in either war as misunderstood heroes. As I knew both John and survivors of the concentration camps I still find it a difficult circle to square. I try to hate the deeds, not the people. The polotics of war have fascinated me for years, first thing you understand, nothing is easy!

Edited February 12, 2013 by Tony B

[Big ray]

Tony, I see where your coming from, but please allow me to quote a couple of the relevant 'oaths'. Firstly, the German model.

 

The Wehrmacht Oath of Loyalty toAdolf Hitler, 2 August 1934

"Iswear by God this sacred oath that to the Leader of the German empire andpeople, Adolf Hitler, supreme commander of the armed forces, I shall renderunconditional obedience and that as a brave soldier I shall at all times beprepared to give my life for this oath."

 

Now, the British version:

 

I, (Insert full name), do swear that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth, her heirs and successors, according to law. So help me God.

 

And lastly, the American model:

 

I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States and the State of (STATE NAME) against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the Governor of (STATE NAME) and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to law and regulations. So help me God.

 

Now, spank me with a Panzerfaust, but you can hardly drive a Deuce and a Half between the three, and not even a Jeep between the first two. As for your final bit mate, Britain declared war on Germany both in 1914, and 1939, but I'm struggling to see where that comes into it.

I'm not 'pro Nazi', in fact, far from it, but I am pro soldier, and my whole contention of remarks I made at the beginning of this thread was/is that the German fighting services of WW2 get a very bad press, because to the un-educated, its so much easier to refer to the whole as 'Nazi', then to be historically accurate.

Very well put, the reality is that at the end of the day we are subjected to a good deal of indoctrination, so it really depends on which side of the fence that you live. I like to think that what I know about the subject will fill a book, unfortunately what I do not know would fill a library.

[Degsy]

Very well put, the reality is that at the end of the day we are subjected to a good deal of indoctrination, so it really depends on which side of the fence that you live. I like to think that what I know about the subject will fill a book, unfortunately what I do not know would fill a library.

 

That is brilliant Ray, so true.:thumbsup:

[Enigma]

German soldiers nazi or not.

As a Dutchman I say it didn't maater that much.

The soldiers enforced the occupation by the Nazi government.

And we were neutral.

[gritineye]

Very well put, the reality is that at the end of the day we are subjected to a good deal of indoctrination, so it really depends on which side of the fence that you live. I like to think that what I know about the subject will fill a book, unfortunately what I do not know would fill a library.

 

That is so true Ray, well said, and I think that is probably as good a way as any of ending what has been an interesting, but increasingly circular discussion.

 

Thanks for your input folks, I have learned a lot, but more reading is required me thinks. :-D

[Tootles]

Again, Tony, I am NOT making excuses for the filthy exentricities of The Third Reich, but lets get this into context. You write "However, dont expect total love when there are a bunch of armed men marching down the street, removing radios, sentencing you to prison or concentration camp if you listen to the BBC" Sounds like Berlin 1945, dont you agree? Much is made of the German atrocities to Allied soldiers during the Ardennes Campaign of 1944/45, and yet I have read written accounts of British soldiers executing prisoners on D Day and afterwards. To the winner belongs the spoils, and also the right to the propaganda, and as Big Ray quite rightly points out, the side of the fence you care to lean on matters as well. You could, I suppose, argue all day that the 'German people asked for it, and had it coming', but maybe, just maybe, if the surrender terms of 1918 had been a little less ten against one sided, then Hitler and his bunch of thugs would never have got to a position of total power in the first place?

 

 

[Degsy]

German soldiers nazi or not.

As a Dutchman I say it didn't maater that much.

The soldiers enforced the occupation by the Nazi government.

And we were neutral.

 

Fair comment Olaf and I am sure people from the other occupied countries no doubt feel the same.

[ruxy]

Getting back to the :-

 

WW2 N centre lathe

 

http://albuquerque.craigslist.org/atq/3603315927.html

 

Flat-belt drive - understandable , however the "quick change" gearbox for feed rate & screwcutting would be quite Germanic cutting-edge , I wonder if they called it a N Norton box ?

[Jack]

The term Nazi is being used more and more to sell 'stuff' - it seems to grabs everyone attention - especially in the media.

 

Kevin Wheatcroft was telling me when we were down on his S130 that when he bought it, the papers got hold of the story and the headlines where 'NAZI Death Boat bought by multimillionaire' and so it goes on.

 

It's a bit like 'original 1945 Jeep landed on D-Day beaches'.

[Enigma]

The term Nazi is being used more and more to sell 'stuff' - it seems to grabs everyone attention - especially in the media.

 

Kevin Wheatcroft was telling me when we were down on his S130 that when he bought it, the papers got hold of the story and the headlines where 'NAZI Death Boat bought by multimillionaire' and so it goes on.

 

It's a bit like 'original 1945 Jeep landed on D-Day beaches'.

 

You're right there.

Everything offered is Nazi, SS, Airborne, people buy a story rather than the object.

They'd buy a turd if the story says it from a SS-Falmschirmjager-Nazi-Uboat-bomber Captain. :nut:

[Tony B]

You're right there.

Everything offered is Nazi, SS, Airborne, people buy a story rather than the object.

They'd buy a turd if the story says it from a SS-Falmschirmjager-Nazi-Uboat-bomber Captain. :nut:

 

Your'e right there. But it is something most people in the UK Mainland don't understand, the feeling that still exist. As for Allied soldiers and the killing of prisoners etc. the important thing was it was not State sanctioned, and any person caught do so would be libale to military or civil law. Intrestingly as far the Versaille treaty goes, the papers are now starting to be released. Recent releases indicate it was the Australians who wanted the cash and economic reperations. Britian, France and Belgium got land grabs, especially in Africa, and of course France got Alsace and Lorraine back- See Franco -Prussian war , where I still maintain the whole boiling started. For newer mebers I was born and grew up tn the Channel Island's the only part of the UK Occupied by German forces in WW2, although the chattering classes in the Island's would prefer me to say 'Soldiers of a Forign Occuping Power.