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Is this using the N word OK for a quick profit?


gritineye
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This is one of my pet hates. 'Nazi' this, and 'Nazi' that. It wasn't the 'Nazi' Army, nor the Airforce, or even the lathe manufacturer.

Its like calling the wartime British services 'Conservative', and to my mind does nothing but belittle the very many brave men and women who fought for their country, so few actually being members of said political party.

Sorry, but I get sick to death of EVERYTHING to do with Germany in WW11 being referred to as such. :iamsmiling:

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This is one of my pet hates. 'Nazi' this, and 'Nazi' that. It wasn't the 'Nazi' Army, nor the Airforce, or even the lathe manufacturer.

Its like calling the wartime British services 'Conservative', and to my mind does nothing but belittle the very many brave men and women who fought for their country, so few actually being members of said political party.

Sorry, but I get sick to death of EVERYTHING to do with Germany in WW11 being referred to as such. :iamsmiling:

 

I knew someone would put my thoughts into words better than I could, thanks.

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Then Concorde was desined in a 'N' wind tunnel, at least one QuinitQ still has 'N' equipment in use. A lot of 'N' equipment was used in the design of the British Nuclear weapon. But it still a touchy subject. England Wales and Northern Ireland were not occupied, neither was the USA. Though I happily wear Flaktarn shirts, I'd not be comfortable wearing a WW2 Geramn uniform.

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Rockets to the moon and swept wing technology for aircraft all came from that source and some of them were members of the n party.

 

For the last few years its been popular to say that a great many of the armed forces of the then third r,eich ) were not members of the 'n' party. The German population voted said party into place and then lost its right to vote by said dictatorship. To get on in said armed forces you had to be a member of said party, so for me and a great many others that won't wash. I suspect most combatants ie the Allies would have called them the 'n' word.

Edited by ferrettkitt
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This is one of my pet hates. 'Nazi' this, and 'Nazi' that. It wasn't the 'Nazi' Army, nor the Airforce, or even the lathe manufacturer.

Its like calling the wartime British services 'Conservative', and to my mind does nothing but belittle the very many brave men and women who fought for their country, so few actually being members of said political party.

Sorry, but I get sick to death of EVERYTHING to do with Germany in WW11 being referred to as such. :iamsmiling:

 

 

I'm with Andy too. Anyone who believes the opposite needs to talk my mates mother, she is German and her family were not Nazi's and suffered very badly. The family could not get out of Germany fast enough after the war, so sick they were of the treatment they received at the hands of their neighbours; time in prison being just the start of their ill treatment. She will tell you quite adamently that it was a popular and well supported Party with only a minority not supporting it in her local area. Maybe some went with the flow so as not to be pilloried but she will tell you that none of them spoke up for those who were not Party members. She has little or no time for her countrymen of that generation. Another acquaintance of mine fled to the Allied side of the lines with her mother as soon as they could. Her father, who was an outspoken critic of the Nazi's, had already paid the price for doing so. She will not subscribe to your delusionist theory either.

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A friend of mine his Grandfarther was a German Communist, who fought at Kursk, on the Russian side! In 1945 due to the Russian attitude he and his crew changed to Wermacht uniform, went over the hill and surendered to the British. Apparently it led to some tense moments in the POW camp. Though to be honest a lot of the older folks in Jersey said the German Armed Forces were OK it was the hangers on like Organisation Todt that were the A**holes.

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Technically it is a nazi lathe, government stamped and therefore property of the nazi regime. Or is it like all the other 'non-nazis' that swore the oath of allegiance to Mr Hitler? Or the 89.9% of German who voted for Mr H in the first place. I guess the other 10.1% must have been in the Wehrmacht studiously avoiding being a nazi.

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You have to say that its very easy to be judgemental in hindsight, its foresight where we find ouselves very wanting. Its a fact that many Germans were not supporters of the Nazi party, otherwise why were there so many attempts on Hitlers life. Many Germans were imprisoned for their opposition to the Nazi`s................. it has to be said, there is good and bad in all peoples.............. and none of this takes into account indoctrination, a very powerful tool.

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Maybe time to remove all breackables from the bar? :-D World War 2 and the subsequent Cold War histories are in some cases masterworks of Orwellian propoganda. From the Nazi menace and our support of Good Old Uncle Joe, to the front line in defence of the Red Menace Germany hasn't had much chance of stability, bear in mind Germany has only been a recognisable one nation for about 50 years or so of it's history. Judge the Nazi regime by the horrors it commited and deplore. A lot of those who taught and influenced me were subject to the Nazi Occupation, but one thing they did teach me was think! If you are going to hate something, have a good reason! I totally agree the explotation of the symbols of Nazisim for profit are wrong, but before condeming those who voted, bear in mind the conditions prevalling, most of us would do anything , regardless of the law of the land to protect and feed our families. Similarly, a closer study of some of the asasinations atempts reveales anything but Patriotic acts for the good of the people.

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Forgive me for this as I only joined yesterday so maybe my views are not relevant but in my opinion you only have to look at the Nuremburg rallies etc to realise that the vast majority of Germans supported the Nazi party and its aims it seems to me that people only started saying they were against it once the war was lost (damage limitation) ? Maybe the young children were unable to make rational choices but the truth is the Nazi's were elected into power by the very people who later claimed not to support them.

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Forgive me for this as I only joined yesterday so maybe my views are not relevant but in my opinion you only have to look at the Nuremburg rallies etc to realise that the vast majority of Germans supported the Nazi party and its aims it seems to me that people only started saying they were against it once the war was lost (damage limitation) ? Maybe the young children were unable to make rational choices but the truth is the Nazi's were elected into power by the very people who later claimed not to support them.

 

Poling, when you have several parties to choose from its perfectly possible to elect one party with a small percentage of the popular vote. If you get 40% of the vote and the rest of the votes are divided between the rest of the parties thats not representative of the nation as a whole. ( I am not suggesting that the nazi party only got 40%) The second world war was really a continuation of the first world war. The French, British and U.S. governments imposed severe reperations onto the German government, reperations that they were never going to met. Indeed all of this became very evident to the British and U.S. governments, who wanted to reduce the reperations on Germany to a manageable level, the french were intransigent and refused to even consider such a move. This was a major contributary factor in the rise of the Nazi party. Its almost impossible for people to understand today, that even the promise of a loaf of bread on the table each day was a vote winner.

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Big ray , I would tend to agree. However it was also the fact of British and French troops still on German soil many years after the armistice signing (armies of occupation).

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1315869/Germany-end-World-War-One-reparations-92-years-59m-final-payment.html#axzz2JfR5zb9q

 

One comment often made by tourists to Germany during the 1930's , was that it was a country of uniforms - almost everybody seemed to be wearing some sort of uniform. As you are aware , often what uniform you wore was often a "class" thing , the middle class tended to aim for a SS uniform , rather than SA or any of the others. Until Hitler deemed otherwise (following a incident in U.S.A.) the swastika flag was a party flag , making the flag the German national flag resolved the issue with the foreigners.

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Ray, I'd argue the First and Second World war were continuations of the Franco Prussian war. 1870 to 1871, that started Prusssia off on expansion. Bismark then said to the rest of the Germanic states, 'Let's form a nation, and before you say you and whose army, look out the window'. End result the German Empire, with immidiate plans of expansion, France- The previous 'Bad man of Europe', humiliated and resentful. Britian feeling threatned, and away we go!

 

Following the Great War, Germany was destitue and humiliated. Also take into acount the influence of The German Army in polotics. The majority of the male population had been in the fighting. The concept was growing that the German Army had not been defeated! It was those wishy washy DEMOCRATIC POLOTICIANS had sold out the fighting man! The military and aristocracy then needed a stalking horse, and obliginly up popped this hair brained little failed artist, Called Adolf Hitler, just what was required! Any time he got too above himself the army could knock him down. However Hitler wasn't that stupid, as soon as he was able he used his political position to put the Army down, and the rest is history.

Edited by Tony B
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One comment often made by tourists to Germany during the 1930's , was that it was a country of uniforms - almost everybody seemed to be wearing some sort of uniform. As you are aware , often what uniform you wore was often a "class" thing , the middle class tended to aim for a SS uniform , rather than SA or any of the others. Until Hitler deemed otherwise (following a incident in U.S.A.) the swastika flag was a party flag , making the flag the German national flag resolved the issue with the foreigners.

 

The other important comment by a lot of tourists was 'Oh look how well the country works!'. Bear in mind the go between that got Germany the licence from Vicker's to manufacture Maxim guns under licicence was the Rothchild family, French , Jewish Bankers. Rather ironic really. Following the Great War, France nearly had another reveolution, Britan was bankrupt (Again) and more concerned with trouble in the Empire, and the US had come out of it's isolation and fancied an empire of it's own (I'd argue still does) but had hit a major depression. There in this world of despair was one beacon of light, a bright shining diligent, progressive organised and contented country! Germany! Given the social and political attitudes of the day if Hitler had stopped his annexations in 1938, he'd probably count amongst the greatest poloticians of the twentyith century. Now that is a scary thought.

Edited by Marmite!!
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Not many years ago, I visited a museum in Frankfurt, mainly dedicated to the history of the city. One thing that struck me was the way in which the most terrible and shameful period in that history was only obliquely referred to in passing, in terms such as "the period from 1933 to 1945" and "the time of the national socialist regime". It left me with the impression that what they were really trying to say was "this had nothing to do with us".

 

Instead of trying to educate people into understanding the circumstances in which a monster like Hitler can rise to power (and so hopefully reduce the chances of it happening again), they would prefer the world to buy into the myth that all Germans were nice, peace-loving folk until 1933, when the Nazis suddenly appeared out of nowhere, enslaved everybody and forced them all to do bad things. Sorry, that isn't how it happened. Hitler was elected to power in 1933, let us not forget that.

 

Noel Coward very satirically summed up the attitude:

 

Don't let's be beastly to the Germans

When our victory is ultimately won,

It was just those nasty Nazis

Who persuaded them to fight,

And their Beethoven and Bach

Are really far worse than their bite!

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Probably more is know today , books by German authors such as Joachim Fest - his book Hitler. One of his books (Inside Hitlers Bunker) at the end explains the reason he did not use Footnotes to cite. Eyewitness accounts are very unreliable. Miles of bookshelvers with Hitler books , yet so little is known (Hitler took care of that).

 

So where does that leave us.

 

The few best sellers in English language that had large world-wide sales / not so large world-wide sales such as :-

 

The high Cost of Hitler : by John Gunther (October 1939)

 

The House that Hitler Built : by Stephen H. Roberts (first 1937)

 

----------

 

I knew Hitler : by Kurt Ludecke (first 1937)

 

When I read this book , (a best seller at the time , probably more in USA than UK) , I considered - fair enough BUT some did not ring true to me at all , (read how he raised finance in France - gambling).

 

HOWEVER - it took all of 64 years until Kurt Ludecke was effectively "outed" , it was not until the English language version (2001) by the German author Lothar Machtan and his book : The Hidden Hitler.

 

-----------

 

The odd other best sellers such as the rambling classic "That Day Alone" by Pierre-van-Passen , the main "modified version" for the British market being 1943 , ISTR the the better un-censored version by Garden City in USA would be 1942 , just play safe and get a more costly 1st. Edn. 1st Impression.

 

Most later books - IMHO , you are just paying into somebody by their private pension fund .

Edited by ruxy
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The "N" had their fingers in everything.

I have a few "N" pins in my collection from the following branches.

 

N-youth (Hit*** jugend)

N-workers (Reichs Arbeits Dienst)

N-women ( Natianal Socialistische Frauenwerk)

N-flyers (aircrew)

N-christians

 

Basically, without being a N or at least being in a organisation of N you were either in a Camp, in hiding or maybe just lucky...

Edited by Enigma
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Forgive me for this as I only joined yesterday so maybe my views are not relevant but in my opinion you only have to look at the Nuremburg rallies etc to realise that the vast majority of Germans supported the Nazi party and its aims it seems to me that people only started saying they were against it once the war was lost (damage limitation) ? Maybe the young children were unable to make rational choices but the truth is the Nazi's were elected into power by the very people who later claimed not to support them.

 

Struggling a bit to see where the Nuremberg Rallies signified the views of the vast majority of The German Peoples, however, lets get down to the facts a bit. In 1928, you needed a wheelbarrow full of money to buy a loaf of bread. Ten years later, Germany was able to field one of the greatest armies The World has ever seen, and your surprised that the German people, themselves starved and oppressed, voted for them?? In the 1930s, the British Fascist Party was the fastest growing political group in the country. Why?? Because people knew no better. They saw the great changes in the German society, and thought they could mirror it here.

That was not, however, the core of my first post. Less then a third of all of German armed forces at that time were card carrying party members. That changed later, of coarse, as vast numbers of Hitler Youth were conscripted into the fighting forces. It was not uncommon for 'U' Boat crews to have a party member planted on board, as with Army units. OK, so all servicemen and women took the oath of allegiance to Hitler, but hey, I took the same sort of oath to HM the Queen, her heirs and successors, as did most servicepeeps to the heads of their own countries.

And so to the lathe in question. Sorry, it was not a 'Nazi' lathe, it was a lathe procured by the Reichminsterium fur Rustung unt Kriegproduction, (RRK), and is probably stamped as such. :-)

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