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Identification please ?


antar
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  • 3 months later...
But rusty on my signals but has it not got something to do with two 353's tied together in a re-broadcast set up?

 

d_562.jpg

 

Two times 353 in the same harness. Iirc simply switch both sets accordingly, announce "Hello all stations this is 98A this is an automatic rebroadcast net. Out" then pick up a book and half listen to the traffic for a coded order to stop rebroadcasting and PUFO. And watch for the batteries discharging, squelch starts to flicker because the squelch is automatic and cannot be adjusted and each set keeps sending the other to transmit one after the other.

 

A dead easy job which was mine for a couple of years but I only ever did once on an umpire net on Crusader 80/Spearpoint. Absolutely no special special boxes necessary.

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Normal non-encrypted rebroadcast can be done just by connecting the remote ports of a pair of 351/2or 353 radios together with D10 telephone cable and setting both radios to rebroadcast mode on frequencies at least a few MHz apart. In a vehicle with harness this can also be set up on the IB2 or IB3 interface box.

 

I had a chance last year to play with a pair of the Digital Master Units (DMU) which were used for secure speech nets. The DMU is a rather larger and older device than the SANIE and is basically just a connection box that acts as a host for the actual encryption device used with the 353 for speech traffic called the BID-250. The BID-250 fits behind the blue cover on a DMU as usually seen on e-Bay or at shows. The DMUs have come out via Withams and a few test BID simulators also came out - the real BIDs themselves must and should have been securely destroyed. If the BID simulator is anything to go by it converts analogue audio from the user's headset or a data terminal into 16Kbits/s CVSD digital audio (CVSD is a NATO standard) and in the case of the simulator feeds it to a modem to remodulate it into audio tones with about an 8KHz bandwidth - suitable for the "Wide Data" mode on the UK/VRC-353. Presumably the real BID contained crypto circuits between the CVSD encoder and the modem. Encryption Keys were input via a front panel selector and could be selected by one of the front panel switches.

 

It is also possible to build a rebroadcast for secure speech nets but that needed a further box called the IBRU (Interface Box Rebroadcast Unit) which connected to two DMUs and up to four UK/VRC 353 radios and which allowed the incoming signal from one radio to be de-scrambled and then re-scrambled to be broadcast to the other three. The fitting instructions for RT353 x 4 DMU x 2 and IBRU into Landrovers turn up on e-Bay from time to time.

 

So I think the B&W picture is of two independent 353 stations with an HF RT321 on the top shelf above it, rather than a dedicated rebroadcast setup.

 

I think the SANIE pictured at the start of this thread, if it is from BATES (an artillery fire control system usually found in the back of an RB44, I believe) is more likely to be a data scrambler than (primarily) for voice but like the DMU comprises a basically dumb box with all the connectors, switches and wires that can be fitted permanently in a vehicle and an actual crypto device - the BID - that is plugged in to the hole behind the front cover in the front panel and easily removed when not in use. The next challenge will be to find a BID 460 simulator ..

 

Hope this helps

 

IainIBRU001.JPG

Edited by g0ozs
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  • 5 months later...
Normal non-encrypted rebroadcast can be done just by connecting the remote ports of a pair of 351/2or 353 radios together with D10 telephone cable and setting both radios to rebroadcast mode on frequencies at least a few MHz apart. In a vehicle with harness this can also be set up on the IB2 or IB3 interface box.

 

I had a chance last year to play with a pair of the Digital Master Units (DMU) which were used for secure speech nets. The DMU is a rather larger and older device than the SANIE and is basically just a connection box that acts as a host for the actual encryption device used with the 353 for speech traffic called the BID-250. The BID-250 fits behind the blue cover on a DMU as usually seen on e-Bay or at shows. The DMUs have come out via Withams and a few test BID simulators also came out - the real BIDs themselves must and should have been securely destroyed. If the BID simulator is anything to go by it converts analogue audio from the user's headset or a data terminal into 16Kbits/s CVSD digital audio (CVSD is a NATO standard) and in the case of the simulator feeds it to a modem to remodulate it into audio tones with about an 8KHz bandwidth - suitable for the "Wide Data" mode on the UK/VRC-353. Presumably the real BID contained crypto circuits between the CVSD encoder and the modem. Encryption Keys were input via a front panel selector and could be selected by one of the front panel switches.

 

It is also possible to build a rebroadcast for secure speech nets but that needed a further box called the IBRU (Interface Box Rebroadcast Unit) which connected to two DMUs and up to four UK/VRC 353 radios and which allowed the incoming signal from one radio to be de-scrambled and then re-scrambled to be broadcast to the other three. The fitting instructions for RT353 x 4 DMU x 2 and IBRU into Landrovers turn up on e-Bay from time to time.

 

So I think the B&W picture is of two independent 353 stations with an HF RT321 on the top shelf above it, rather than a dedicated rebroadcast setup.

 

I think the SANIE pictured at the start of this thread, if it is from BATES (an artillery fire control system usually found in the back of an RB44, I believe) is more likely to be a data scrambler than (primarily) for voice but like the DMU comprises a basically dumb box with all the connectors, switches and wires that can be fitted permanently in a vehicle and an actual crypto device - the BID - that is plugged in to the hole behind the front cover in the front panel and easily removed when not in use. The next challenge will be to find a BID 460 simulator ..

 

Hope this helps

 

IainIBRU001.JPG

I have 2 NOS rebroadcast units identical to the one in the picture above, one still in its packaging if anyone is interested.

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  • 1 year later...
  • 2 weeks later...

SANIE (Stand Alone NIE) was used with the BATES specific crypto BID 460 (AKA Palladian), this was the first crypto that CESG produced as software, previous crypto was always in hardware. SANIE was usable with manpack (PRC) radios, ie 320, 351 and 352, as well as VRC. The other NIE was for more complex multi set installations including 432, Warrior, etc with bty CPs, BCs, RHQs.

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  • 2 months later...

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