Jack Posted February 6, 2007 Share Posted February 6, 2007 This topic has most certainly grab peoples attention - why is it that we all drawn towards them............ :dunno: :dunno: Now the question is, we know what is on the ranges NOW........but do we know what WAS on the ranges...... :? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bodge Deep Posted February 6, 2007 Share Posted February 6, 2007 I seem to remember a Churchill being visible from the road @ Catterick a few years ago... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Barrell Posted February 6, 2007 Share Posted February 6, 2007 A bit of everything! I have seen over the years:- Sherman 1 Sherman V Sexton Ram Grant M40 M74 ARV M10 BARV Valentine A10 cruiser Covenanter Crusader Cavalier Centaur Cromwell Comet Centurion Conqueror Chieftain Matilda Churchill, most types Black Prince Jagdpanther Stug III M47 M48 T34 T54 Daimler A/C Ferrett Pig 432 Hs30 M42 AA M44 SP etc etc I've seen pics of some of the stuff that was on Lulworth post war..... Panthers, Panzer III etc Makes your mouth water! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted February 6, 2007 Share Posted February 6, 2007 That is an impressive list Adrian and a sad one too. Would you ever take another project on like your Sherman again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest matt Posted February 6, 2007 Share Posted February 6, 2007 Could the Sherman BARV be rescued? and what engine would that model have? I just happen to know someone who has two Sherman radial engines for sale cheap.... Matt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted February 6, 2007 Share Posted February 6, 2007 A good number of years ago, the Tank Museum asked if I could survey a Matilda mk1 on a local range in Kent. The museum was planning on having a running example built by Bob Grundy, I think they found some remains on Otterburn range as well. I arranged to view and it was on an old PIAT range that had recently been cleared of ordnance. The turret had been blown off as well as the tracks, but there was still a lot of salvageable parts there. After surveying the area with recovery in mind, I sent the photos off. Apparantly, all three wrecks found had been hit from the same side, but ultimately the Matilda 1 was restored by Bob, albeit with a Rover V8 engine to replace the original Ford V8. Somewhere I still have the negatives, will have to search them out. Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fv1609 Posted February 6, 2007 Share Posted February 6, 2007 A bit of everything! I have seen over the years:- Adrian did you ever come accoss any Commers (as in RUC) there was a grey one on Otterburn ranges. Just trying to account for them all, which I think totalled 14. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Barrell Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 Clive, only the one on Otterburn that Steve Osfield found. Matt, as to the BARV, ultimately anything is restorable given time and money. It's a question of perceived value, it may be 'worth' spending £500k restoring a Panther but not something more common. The BARV had twin Detroit diesels as it was based on an M4A2. These engines are easy enough to find, as indeed is most of the rest of the parts required. Of courese, finding them and aquiring them are two different problems..... Are the radials owned by a tankie? How much does your friend want for them? A very rough estimate to restore the BARV properly would be 4-5000 hrs and maybe 15-20k spend in parts. Would it be worth it? Jack, would I restore another one like my Sherman? I do have the Cromwell to do, though that is not as bad as the Sherman was. I sold the M10 because it was such a similar project to the Sherman. A lot less work, for sure, if only because an M10 has less parts than a gun tank, but still a big project all the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fv1609 Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 only the one on Otterburn that Steve Osfield found. Adrian, I have seen some pictures of it taken by Steve. I don't think it was a water cannon, the other variants were APC & prison van although the roles did seem to change with time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Barrell Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 Clive, I wasn't really looking at that sort of stuff, to be honest... :oops: Though fairly prolific with taking photos, I wish i had done more. It was a combination of always being on site to do something rather than take pictures and a feeling that the targets would always be there. The reunification of Germany led to much more intensive use of ranges in the UK and consequently, targets that had been around since the war were being used up and replaced rapidly. I look through my pics now and think 'that one's gone, that one's scrapped', occasionally there is one that was saved. Too little, too late! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fv1609 Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 And of course now one can be more prolific with digital photo taking! I can recall trips to Ludgershall thinking I've only so many rolls of film left I better save some films in case I see something better! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Barrell Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 Happy days! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enigma Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 In the Netherlands a Sherman Bulldozer tank was scrapped even though people tried to get permission to salvage it.....it was on a range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M5Clive Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 This thread has been so damn interesting during its course and I have learnt so much more about the whole range-wreck subject. You really should put a book together Adrian, what with your photo archive of ranges you have visited over the past 25 years and the amazing story of the restoration of your M4A4 from being dragged off Salisbury Plain to the prestine condition that it now represents. In the Steam Railway fraternity, many books have been written about Barry Scrapyard in South Wales, where a huge proportion of Great Britains steam engines finished-up, after steam had been phased out. They are very popular selling titles indeed. The vast majority of steam engines that are restored on preserved steam railways up and down the country came from this one scrapyard in Barry. Just like the range wreck scenario, very unique and irreplaceable loco's were cut up hand over fist without a seconds thought to there place in the history books. Fortunately as well as a businessman, the yard owner Dai, did have an affection for some of those old loco's and fortunately the ones he took a shine too, got put further back down the yard. One day the preserved steam loco boff's suddenly realised what history was being melted down for saucepans and many many engines were subsequently saved on near shoe-string budgets. Even I can remember visiting this scrapyard in the late 1970's as an under five year old and recall seeing row upon row of rusty old engines lined-up - It helped Dad swing the visits to this yard with Mum because it was adjacent to the Butlins Holiday Camp at Barry :angel: An earlier comment regarding the range wrecks was 'too little too late.' This is so often the case - As a child my father can remember climbing through a hole in the fence at RAF Wroughton, Wiltshire and playing on an enormous pile of Spitfires, junked, one on top of the other :cry: Oh to have had a crystal ball - You know how much they fetch today don't you :oops: Cds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snapper Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 This is a fantastic idea. The book would sell. It would be good to thread through it the Sherman preservation and, without being an expert (because I'm not) give any histories available of the vehicles themselves. Having the Sherman is essential to this and fortunately Adrian has the material and the position of authority to add gravitas. Maybe tie in some work from the other range regulars - an HMVF production! Sounds like a stocking filler to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Barrell Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 It is something I've thought about over the years, always thought it would be a small scale seller and I'm sure the amount of work involved is ten times what I may have thought! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snapper Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 Always is, but there are ways. I suppose you just need lots of spare time and I bet you have it in abundance (not). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Barrell Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 Spare time..... :roll: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 This is a fantastic idea. The book would sell. It would be good to thread through it the Sherman preservation and, without being an expert (because I'm not) give any histories available of the vehicles themselves. Having the Sherman is essential to this and fortunately Adrian has the material and the position of authority to add gravitas. Maybe tie in some work from the other range regulars - an HMVF production! Sounds like a stocking filler to me. Like your thinking there Snapper - Adrian fancy writing some article for HMVF - to go on the new HMVF site?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Barrell Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 Who, me? Umm, well, I erm..... What did you have in mind? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest matt Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 Hi Adrian, Thanks for the reply. IMO I'd say it would be worth restoring the BARV,not that I have the money to do so but just so long as what is left is preserved so it could be restored at some time,perhaps not in my lifetime but as long as it's not deteriorating further it could at least be there for a future restorer. I guess the question is how would one go about buying and moving it? will the MOD even sell range targets now? The radials are with a friend in the US who collects MV's but not tracked armor. I'll get more details if you want,I think he was asking about $1200 the pair. Matt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tugger Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 I'm not a knowledge in this field at all, but have just read with great interest and thought I might have a look to see what Google Earth had to offer on Salisbury, It wasn't in high enough res to show any vehicles but this is some of what is clearly visable :schocked: http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a340/tuggerdavis/Salisbury1.jpg[/img] http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a340/tuggerdavis/Salisbury2.jpg[/img] http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a340/tuggerdavis/Salisbury3.jpg[/img] http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a340/tuggerdavis/Salisbury4.jpg[/img] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Barrell Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 Live local has better res, it's certainly possible to see individual targets there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shane taylor Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 Adrian fancy writing some article for HMVF - to go on the new HMVF site?? That would be fantastic if you could Adrian, it would make fascinating reading. I loved all of the articles that everyone has done on here - I have learnt so much from them :-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom G Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 Heres my humble contribution, a couple of CVR(T)s on the RAF Pembrey bombing range, have not suffered any damage as yet. [attachment deleted by admin] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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