diver99 Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 Acquired a few naval photos at auction, thought this one of Vanguard being broken up be of interest? The 15" guns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RattlesnakeBob Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 Fascinating picture....got any more ????? but..:cry: ...as I have commented on HMVF before..the scrapping of HMS Vanguard was without a shadow of a doubt an absolutely appalling decision....as our very last 'proper' battleship , no way on this planet should she have been scrapped. ..........and neither should our last 'proper' carrier HMS Ark Royal either come to that ......apart from the little tiddler HMS Belfast we have nothing left to show what 'sailing on a ship of the line' used to mean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulture Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 ...as I have commented on HMVF before..the scrapping of HMS Vanguard was without a shadow of a doubt an absolutely appalling decision....as our very last 'proper' battleship , no way on this planet should she have been scrapped...........and neither should our last 'proper' carrier HMS Ark Royal either come to that ......apart from the little tiddler HMS Belfast we have nothing left to show what 'sailing on a ship of the line' used to mean Could not agree with you more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 Trouble is , keep all the old stuff, and you can't afford any new stuff! Kit wears out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
utt61 Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 I do agree with the view that is it a great shame that Vanguard wasn't saved as a floating museum, but in this country we are really not good at publicly preserving our recent history, maritime or land-based. No doubt that if she was still extant a private trust would be struggling with impossible maintenance and uptake costs. There are so many historic ships which have been lost due to a lack of funding it is a scandal really. In the states several significant capital ships have been preserved as national or state memorials (for example the survivng Iowa class battleships); it is a shame that something similar didn't happen here with Vanguard. My father served on Vanguard and has nothing but praise for the ship, she was probably the best sea-going battleship ever built. I also think it is a shame that there isn't a single preserved WW2 airfield preserved in WW2 condition, or any of the coastal batteries such as Wanstone, or any of the railguns which saw service in WW1 and WW2 and survived at Shoeburyness until realtively recently. The list just goes on and on - there is so much that has been lost. Without history there is nothing from which future generations can learn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snapper Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 Money is never interupted by mere sentiment. I work in a photo archive and we have endless images of the giants of the fleet going to scrap including the wooden wonders of the 19th century - some of them Trafalgar era veterans - which had been kept as coal hulks and training ships, which were still happily cut up for woodchip in the 1920s and 30s. It is very sad. I would, out of professional interest, love to know the original source for these snaps from the stamps on the reverse (by pm if necessary). No hassle over ownership - newpaper library clearouts have been covered in the copyright thread by me. MB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diver99 Posted August 2, 2012 Author Share Posted August 2, 2012 Don't forget the saying; "A Boat, is a hole in the sea where you pour money"! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 When a wooden ship was built it was 'Disposable' , they only lasted thirty years or so. The same nowadays. Look at the problems preserving what we have got. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtistsRifles Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 Without history there is nothing from which future generations can learn. Without wishing to stray into the dreaded realms of the "P" word - it always seems to me that most Gov'ts since WW2 have had no interest in preserving the past but rather actively seek to destroy it!! :cry: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferrettkitt Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 (edited) and neither should our last 'proper' carrier HMS Ark Royal either come to that Which Ark Royal the last one just gone or the previous incarnation which I would class as an Aircraft Carrier with steam catapults, angled flight deck and arrestor gear. I would prefer the 'Through deck cruiser' to survive but I bet it doesn't but I would really like to be proven wrong on that one Without wishing to stray into the dreaded realms of the "P" word - it always seems to me that most Gov'ts since WW2 have had no interest in preserving the past but rather actively seek to destroy it!! :cry: If it costs the government money and its a possible stick to beat said government with by an opposition party its gone without sentiment. Edited August 2, 2012 by ferrettkitt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Grundy Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 While this is being discussed a genuine war veteran HMS Plymouth is waiting to be towed away for scrapping......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RattlesnakeBob Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 Which Ark Royal the last one just gone or the previous incarnation which I would class as an Aircraft Carrier with steam catapults, angled flight deck and arrestor gear. I would prefer the 'Through deck cruiser' to survive but I bet it doesn't but I would really like to be proven wrong on that one I was meaning 'the one, before the last one':cool2: ...... you know....the one that was HMS Eagles sister.....the one Rod Stewart warbled on about in 'Sailing'.....the one..hahaha!.... oh I reckon you know which one I'm on about now :-D Yes I know she'd been much altered and modernised over the years but ...so was the USS Missouri.....(even being fitted with Thomohawk Cruise missiles in one of her updates :-)) and when she was finally struck off strength (for the final time) she was returned to her WW2 configuration for preservation..... and anyways..... whilst mentioning HMS Eagle?... ..many said way back then.... she should have been kept in the fleet rather than Ark Royal because according to many that knew such things, Eagle was in much better physical condition ..........ah well ....there's no knowing how or why they decide what they decide in Whitehall is there?........ But having said all of that.. ........HMS Vanguard was not only our last Battleship ....but also... the last full size proper heavy duty battleship launched anywhere in the world.....she was truly the last of her breed and we will never see the like of such a ship again...and certainly never again coming out of a British Shipyard.... ....surely that alone should have twigged someones white collar conscience ???:-( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RattlesnakeBob Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 Money is never interupted by mere sentiment. I work in a photo archive and we have endless images of the giants of the fleet going to scrap including the wooden wonders of the 19th century - some of them Trafalgar era veterans - which had been kept as coal hulks and training ships, which were still happily cut up for woodchip in the 1920s and 30s. It is very sad. I would, out of professional interest, love to know the original source for these snaps from the stamps on the reverse (by pm if necessary). No hassle over ownership - newpaper library clearouts have been covered in the copyright thread by me. MB At one time I had a book (stupidly lent out to someone and now gone forever) .....all about Thos. W Ward & Co a massive company that back in those days owned the Inverkeithing Ship breaking yard (amongst many others around the UK and the world) and there were some fantastic photos in it of the scrapping of a lot of the big capital ships through the late 1940s and into the 1950s... Pictures I recall in particular were of HMS Rodney and HMS Nelson moored up one behind the other at the dock ......it was horrible to see, those great once proud battleships , after incredible service for their country throughout the Second World War.... were reduced to nothing more than smoking piles of scrap metal........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 At one time I had a book (stupidly lent out to someone and now gone forever) .....all about Thos. W Ward & Co a massive company that back in those days owned the Inverkeithing Ship breaking yard (amongst many others around the UK and the world) and there were some fantastic photos in it of the scrapping of a lot of the big capital ships through the late 1940s and into the 1950s...Pictures I recall in particular were of HMS Rodney and HMS Nelson moored up one behind the other at the dock ......it was horrible to see, those great once proud battleships , after incredible service for their country throughout the Second World War.... were reduced to nothing more than smoking piles of scrap metal........ Literally swords to ploughshares. How else could the steel required to rebuild industry and housing be obtained. A lot of German stuff was scrapped in the Channel Island's for the simple reason that the money was needed to get the Island's econmies started again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
utt61 Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 At one time I had a book (stupidly lent out to someone and now gone forever) .....all about Thos. W Ward & Co a massive company that back in those days owned the Inverkeithing Ship breaking yard (amongst many others around the UK and the world) and there were some fantastic photos in it of the scrapping of a lot of the big capital ships through the late 1940s and into the 1950s... Pictures I recall in particular were of HMS Rodney and HMS Nelson moored up one behind the other at the dock ......it was horrible to see, those great once proud battleships , after incredible service for their country throughout the Second World War.... were reduced to nothing more than smoking piles of scrap metal........ Was it "Wards At Work 1962. A Pictorial Survey of Recent Activities of the Ward Group of Companies" ? Thomas W Ward & Co seems to have more active in the production of books etc about its acitivies than many companies and there are several titles listed on ABE books. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pzkpfw-e Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 HMS Vanguard didn't have any combat history. If one Battleship should have been preserved, then it should have been HMS Warspite. A veteran of Jutland, Narvik, Calabria (where she hit the Giulio Cesare at 26,000yds!), Matapan, Normandy landings, & Walcheren. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferrettkitt Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 HMS Vanguard didn't have any combat history. If one Battleship should have been preserved, then it should have been HMS Warspite.A veteran of Jutland, Narvik, Calabria (where she hit the Giulio Cesare at 26,000yds!), Matapan, Normandy landings, & Walcheren. HMS Warspite should have been saved for the nation but when HMS Vanguard was scrapped I'm presuming that was all that was left to be saved in regards to English Battleships / Battlecruisers. Turkey still had a Moltke class Battlecruiser which survived until 1971 which should also have been saved. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moltke_class_battlecruiser HMS Vengeance should have been saved but the nation wasn't willing to spend any money on a potential museum ship. If it can't make money for a potential owner its not happening. Now if it was a football club it would have been saved because every discerning millionaire wants to throw money into a bottomless pit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.303fan Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 war ships..radioships..a lot of nice stuff was scrapped just because the scrap price was high enough. i wonder if those ships could have been given another life life appartments? outside preserved as much as possible, inside a minor upgrade. as a floating hotel if needed or for a company to house workers from abroad. just my two cents (all you cut away is gone forever) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RattlesnakeBob Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 Was it "Wards At Work 1962. A Pictorial Survey of Recent Activities of the Ward Group of Companies" ? Thomas W Ward & Co seems to have more active in the production of books etc about its acitivies than many companies and there are several titles listed on ABE books. could well have been.....:undecided: I actually had 2 books on them .... .. as I recall they were published by TW Wards on I think the occasion of their 50th and subsequent 75th anniversary of the companies foundation..fantastic books........I sort of know where they went but have no hope of getting them back now. ah well........ and yes I see your point Tony about 'swords/ploughs etc' but ......... saving one battleship and one carrier from that era wouldn't have affected the economy that much.........after all....did we seriously need every single absolute ton ?.. No....I tend to think that things are often done in this country under the cover of 'economic necessity' when in actual fact it's a very convenient way for the powers that be to do whatever it is they've already decided upon....... after all.. ..we may well have been in dire financial straights when we scrapped all the WW2 era ships in the late 1940s early 1950s but we weren't in a similar state when we lamped up Vanguard in the early 60s and nor Ark Royal in the early 80s either.... so I don't see that the idea of us 'needing the steel' really holds any weight..... (holds any weight !...haha as in scrap metal hahah!...bit of pun there I'll get me coat ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mk3iain Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 HMS Warspite should have been saved for the nation but when HMS Vanguard was scrapped I'm presuming that was all that was left to be saved in regards to English Battleships / Battlecruisers. I am sure you meant British, after all Vanguard was built by John Browns of Clydebank as were many others. :whistle: Rant over before it really begins! :blush: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferrettkitt Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 ferrettkitt;330108]HMS Warspite should have been saved for the nation but when HMS Vanguard was scrapped I'm presuming that was all that was left to be saved in regards to English Battleships / Battlecruisers. I am sure you meant British, after all Vanguard was built by John Browns of Clydebank as were many others. :whistle: Rant over before it really begins! :blush: Damn and blast the PC brigade :-D of course I meant British lol! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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