restoration Ozzie Saladin

[aussiecowboy]

Any more progress on this Aussie?

[Aussie]

I've come to accept that absolutely everything with my beast will be a challenge. However I'm still puddling away, losing the odd bit of skin and blood when time and SWMBO allows, and it's still great fun. Whether it gets finished in my lifetime is another matter!

I haven't been posting my more recent trials and tribulations, for fear of boring everyone. However, since my triumph to date (drum roll....) is only to get two wheel stations back on, it might be interesting to go through a few of the reasons why this is all I've managed.

Where to start...

1. The bevel boxes RF and LF were unusable and I couldn't get Saladin replacements, so got Saracen ones and fettled the inner bits off the Saladin ones to fit, with appropriate bushing. (The complete pic is of course RF - the speedo drive is on the left)

2. The disc brakes on my NOS wheel stations were seized - basically were adjusted too tight when put into storage and ended up corroding together. I got an adjuster machined but the adjusting cogged wheel is quite soft metal so needed to drill and bash them loose. Then very careful cleaning of the pads (assuming asbestos) and reassembly. A few fiddly clips involved

3. The hull brackets - well the problem is mine are older than the NOS wheel stations so they don't fit together. I'm still tossing up what to do with the others but think I'll be trying to clean up the old ones that are possibly serviceable.

The old brackets have metal bushes that I knocked out and replaced with flush sleeves that I had machined. Then the new ones fitted after I had bushes machined to fit.

 

Then there's the saga of the shock absorbers and shafts but I'll post that later

Cheers

James

Edited December 11, 2015 by Aussie

[Aussie]

Fitting the tracta joints is fiddly, as anyone who has done this knows. The problem is that the tracta joints have to mate but that is very difficult when they're greased/oiled up and tend to slip out of alignment while pushing the assembly into the hull. The outer one is the "male"

and the hull one "female"

After a lot of frustration, I found it helps to wedge these joints so they don't slip out of whack while you're pushing it all together. There's probably other ways to do this, but I found that the tolerances are so fine that all I needed to do was put on a 1 inch strip of electrical tape, up to the edge of the flat bit on the "shaft", and the joints locked up good and tight. The pic below was with double-sided tape which is easier to see, although in mine it was actually too thick and too long so I ended up using just plain electrical tape. Anyway, if you're in this situation you'll see what I mean. I figure that the little bit of plastic tape isn't going to any damage. However I'd be interested if there is a better way.

Cheers

[Richard Farrant]

 

After a lot of frustration, I found it helps to wedge these joints so they don't slip out of whack while you're pushing it all together. There's probably other ways to do this, but I found that the tolerances are so fine that all I needed to do was put on a 1 inch strip of electrical tape, up to the edge of the flat bit on the "shaft", and the joints locked up good and tight. The pic below was with double-sided tape which is easier to see, although in mine it was actually too thick and too long so I ended up using just plain electrical tape. Anyway, if you're in this situation you'll see what I mean. I figure that the little bit of plastic tape isn't going to any damage. However I'd be interested if there is a better way.

 

 

 

Hi James,

I have used this idea for about the last 40 years, when working on Alvis and Daimler military vehicles, but use a strip of paper, this will quickly disintegrate once the vehicle moves. This was a common solution that we used in the army workshops.

regards, Richard

[robin craig]

Dear James,

 

Please don't ever think that what you consider to be mundane boring work or maybe even drudgery is not of interest to the rest of us who are watching around the word.

 

 

Far from it. I love the simple solutions that you have used when faced wiyth problems and the lateral thinking is inspirational and ingenious and simple.

 

 

Keep posting every screw and grease fitting and shaft and seal and keep the info flowing.

 

Wonderful

 

Thank you

 

Robin

Canada

[Starfire]

Everything in this thread has been of help to me, especially when I was replacing a wheel station on the Saracen a few weeks ago; the manual will get you only so far, but your descriptions and pictures really helped.

 

Cheers,

Terry

[Aussie]

Ah yes - of course! Thanks Richard - should have thought of that - possibly too busy swearing at the time to think clearly. Paper from now on!

And thanks to Terry and Robin for your kind remarks.

 

I'm not sure that the Saga of the Shockers will help anyone, but I got NOS with the correct numbers and didn't give it a second's thought until the time came to put them on. At that stage I discovered that the old ones are quite different and don't fit the newer brackets. The old ones have a thinner shaft and bushes, while the newer ones have wider shafts and different bushes (much better system). So I guess the take home message is to measure the diameter of the shafts before assuming that matching numbers mean they're the same.

I thought of getting new Silentbloc bushes but the holes in the shafts are different sizes, so Plan B is to refurbish at least some of the old wheel stations...

The old on the left and the newer on the right. The numbers look identical but the holes and bushes are quite different

Old shaft on left and newer, thicker one on right

The other thing I confirmed after Terry's earlier post was that the NOS O rings were completely knackered. They didn't look bad until I flipped off the washer and they fell apart, so you can bet that these need to be replaced. Making O rings is fiddly but not difficult.

On a lighter note, stretching the rubber boots over the torsion bars is a hoot. Make a guide to fit on the end of the shaft (I used the end of a plastic bottle that I filled with Polyfiller but I'll machine a metal one for the others, as per Anyroo's post in British Vehicles ("Torsion bar sleeve") 6/4/15 - wow doesn't time fly!

Lots of Red Rubber Grease

Hair dryer to warm the sleeve

Then grab and pull!

(Quite) some time later - voila!

Cheers

[adam4949]

Gave up on the cables and cut them. Jammed solid so hopefully can get NOS. Levered the drivers hatch open enough to get a military jack into the space and used that to get it 3/4 open. Will try heat next. Got more stuff out but won't bore you with that.

101 Ron's query: I later discovered it was on the market for a while, steadily dropping in price so that by the time I heard of it it seemed reasonable (after dropping more). But I got seriously distracted - was looking for a turret for a Ferret but am now besotted!

Robin's query re the Ferret: I was told it's a "prototype". It runs a car carburetter (I think Chev) so air cleaner pokes through the top. Wouldn't last long if shot at but mileage is reasonable. No other obvious mechanical mods apart from "normal" spark leads and plugs. More pics of it on my introduction.

Thanks Jon - I'm currently seeing if I can get a turret off a wreck and might need help, since it's missing bits (don't know what yet).

Can I ask how to get the drivers hatch torsion bar off? I've removed the plate on the right hand end but not sure if I should just bash it to the left with a centre punch?

Also, is it feasible/possible to knock the pins out to get the engine hatches off, or best left on. I haven't managed to budge them so far.

James

 

Hi An important tip, with any armour but especially Saladin, due to shortage, or expense of many parts, is would not chop, cut or bash anything off until you are sure you can source a replacement. If the torsion bar can be waggled enough to get it working, leave it alone. Many sealed parts of Alvis vehicles can look like **** on the outside and be perfect within. Check fluids and top up but leave them alone if they work. Do not cut any brake cables, especially the front one's, as they are very hard to source now. Similarly, you mentioned the dust shields for the steering rams. Jack up the front and establish you have a full range of steering. If you have, again check fluid, clean up the outside and leave it alone. The Saladin has simply thousands of parts, so play with as few of them as you possibly can, as the rest will keep you very busy for a few years. If you get stuck for a turret, I might be able to help, as have 2 but only one hull.

[aussiecowboy]

Great to see some more progress pics James. I have had great success in the past using just air pressure to get rubber hoses/sheathes onto steel bars and pipes. It must be done dry however, without any grease.

 

And I echo the sentiment above, definitely not bored with this build.

[Andrew Rowe]

Great Project, sounds a bit like a my Dingo Scout car but scaled up!. Don't want to hijack this great thread, but here is one over this side of the ditch needing attention, Cheers Andrew.

[lowfat]

Must be time for another update...Love this thread

 

john

[Aussie]

At the moment I'm trundling around Iceland so nothing much to report. Decided to buy a metal lathe to make my bushes ("how hard could it be?") on the grounds that it's the journey not the destination that matters. Had a few near misses and started thinking it was a lot harder than it looked, but after a (competent) friend showed me how to put the cutting tools in the correct way (I started with them at 90 degrees to the the way they should go) it actually works very nicely and I'm happy with the results.

Got side-tracked temporarily with a new grandson and an old series 1 80" landrover that needed a bit of tlc but that's now virtually sorted.

Will post when there's something worth showing. Now off to go down into the volcano (they promise it's asleep).

Cheers

James

[airdave]

I found this thread (and this site) searching for photos of the Saladin Hull and Engine Bay.

 

I am currently designing a paper scale model of the Saladin

and since I know nothing about these vehicles, I am relying on found internet information.

 

Your thread...and these fantastic photos you are sharing...are my best find so far.

 

I have got a couple of sets of walkaround images, but interior shots are much harder to find...

and it helps to see components being dismantled.

Gives me a better understanding of how the parts go together and how to recreate them in scale model form.

 

Anyway, thanks for this valuable information...I am continuing to watch with interest.

 

Oh by the way...

I am trying to understand where the engine exhaust pipes pass through the body

and what the exhaust system looks like.

Got any photos that show that?

And what about the air intake for the engine?

[David Herbert]

I found this thread (and this site) searching for photos of the Saladin Hull and Engine Bay.

 

I am currently designing a paper scale model of the Saladin

and since I know nothing about these vehicles, I am relying on found internet information.

 

 

 

Remember that most of the people on this forum either own vehicles or have a hands on interest in them. You don't give a location but if you are in the UK there must be a Saladin in preservation within range of you. Anyone restoring a Saladin is going to be a friendly kind of guy (too much hard work for the grumpy ones) so why don't you ask if you can have a good look at a real one. Most owners are only too happy to talk to people with a genuine interest.

 

I have a FV434 if you want to crawl over that...

 

David

[airdave]

Ontario Canada

Thanks for the offer.

[Aussie]

Ah well, the sun is out so I've been back in the shed, working on the world's slowest restoration! This stuff isn't all that interesting but there's a few things that might help someone.

First (drum roll..) I've got the third wheel station on. Need a few wheel nuts and minor bits to put on. So a pic with my apprentices:

I have a love-hate relationship with wheel stations but a couple of things helped. First is using a crow bar to swivel the station to get it lined up with the bracket. Second is a block and tackle that I attach to the other side of the hull to help draw it in (gently). Had to take the brackets off the old station to make this non-turning (was a NOS centre right station) and the pins needed a bit of grinding to fit the later model station but only a whisker.

Next the torsion bar - cleaned all the bits and put a new gaiter on, which is a real strain for my poor old stomach muscles!

When taking these off I had terrible trouble getting at the nuts on the end plates (possibly just me) so decided to slide the bar in and attach the adjusting bracket, then slide it into place with the adjusting bar inserted and then fix it to the hull. Actually worked very well.

These show the small gap between the end plates of rear and middle brackets.

Sliding the whole lot in was simple - remember to have the bracket on its lower stops and measure 3.5 inches to get it in the right place.

Now the left rear, which is original (works and couldn't get NOS anyway). The wheel station is going to cause grief, no doubt, with bodgy seals, but time will tell.

Anyway have cleaned the brackets and they're ready to put on. A couple of things with the lower bracket:

Cleaning the brackets for the shock absorber lower shafts had me tossed for a while but discovered that a bronze brush for 12 gauge shotgun was just the thing

The other problem is that my brackets are full of grease rather than oil, so the tube channels for oiling the shocker shafts were completely blocked. After a lot of aggravation I got some 3mm wire rope and (after putting a bit of tape on the end to ease its passage) forced that in from the big bearing end, using pliers. This unblocked plugs of greasy muddy muck quite nicely.

Some of the muck - quite therapeutic to see it ooze out!

With a bit of luck (unlikely from my experience!) I'll get the wheel station on her the Xmas break.

Cheers and Merry Xmas to all!

James

[cooler07]

Hi James and a Merry Christmas to you,!!!!! It might be slow but it's going to be the newest Saladin in the world when completed.!!!!!!!!!:wow::wow::wow:

 

Stay in it sir!!!!!

Regards James

[robin craig]

I was curious about the request from Dave for detail for his model, as a plastic modeler from years ago I have a lot of respect for model makers.

 

So I did some research and found that Dave Winfield is from my same fair Province and Country and has some incredble skills.

 

Here is a link to his paper Saladin, I was blown away

 

[airdave]

Thanks Robin! Where you located? I'm in Cambridge Ontario.

 

I don't want to hijack this thread anymore,

so I'll point to the thread I started for my paper model.

Just in case, anyone is curious...thanks!

http://hmvf.co.uk/forumvb/showthread.php?55752-Saladin-Mk-2-Armoured-Car

[Peakrec]

Thanks Robin! Where you located? I'm in Cambridge Ontario.

 

I don't want to hijack this thread anymore,

so I'll point to the thread I started for my paper model.

Just in case, anyone is curious...thanks!

http://hmvf.co.uk/forumvb/showthread.php?55752-Saladin-Mk-2-Armoured-Car

The work your doing is fantastic, from the rusty starting point to what has been achieved now is truly wonderful. Keep up the great restoration. Nigel.

[Aussie]

That paper model is amazing! Hijack the thread as much as you like with fascinating stuff like that.

 

The LH rear hub was as bad as I imagined, with rust and dents from where someone had bashed it in - much better to put a block and tackle through from the other side to gently draw it in, so you don't feel tempted to hit it! Figured it was past saving and had a "spare" wheel station (CR) so took the end of it, as well as the brake ring and swapped them over. Changed the gaiter on the hub as well - that was a trial but you'll see what I mean if you're doing one!

A few shots of the old hub:

 

Next the NOS bits:

A pic of my dodgy setup to put the wheel stations on. A chain to balance on an engine lifter, a block and tackle attached to the other side of the hull, and another strap/pulley onto the outer end of the wheel hub to swivel the lower end out if needed to line up the holes (the block and tackle on the inside tends to swivel it in) .. it ain't pretty but it works for me!

Then paint and the wheel! Of course the steel column was too close to get the wheel on so had to move it.

 

Have almost got the 5th on - hopefully this weekend since it's straightforward (relatively). Then back to work so things will slow down yet again. Won't bore you with that but will post an invention that I found helpful for putting the rubber gaiters on the torsion bars, if you're doing them on your own.

Cheers

James

Edited January 22, 2017 by Aussie

[Aussie]

5th is on! Pretty straightforward. Needed to machine some bushes to fit new upper bracket to old (MK1) hull bracket, and to fit old lower links to the new wheel station (using original bumpers and shock absorbers).

The bushes were fun now that I'm more used to using the lathe - actually really useful for odd bits and pieces

With this one I decided to put the sleeve on the torsion bar tube "off vehicle" since I find them hard to slide on when they're on the beast. Use little strips of that plastic stuff that goes between floor panels (not sure what it's called - I think some electricians use it as well to pass wires through wall spaces, so useful stuff!) and another sleeve to push to on - much easier.

PS 25/2/17: Forget the plastic bits: for the 6th I discovered that that actual secret is just to use a sleeve to push the tube down, rather than trying to do it by hand. It then slips on easily with red rubber grease, and could be done on or off the vehicle. Ah well, better late than never, I suppose!

36C in the shed today so not much work out of the apprentice, but got wheel and steering arm on.

Now onto the LF station but that will take longer - need to fettle the Saracen bevel box to take the speedo drive, and need to replace a couple of bearings that I butchered when I was in the thick of pulling bits to pieces. So a word to the wise - the short bolts will screw right into the bearing if you get a rush of blood. You can see the dimple made by the bottom bolt. Jiggered two bearings and the ones I bought were Mk 2 and don't fit.

However I can use the ones from RF station since the NOS station came complete with its own hull bracket. Back to the lathe to turn down some mandrels (if that's the name) to press them out and in. Plan to bring home some liquid nitrogen from work to help the new ones in - should be fun!

Cheers

James

Edited January 25, 2017 by Aussie

[Aussie]

Whoops - forgot my "invention" for getting the small boots onto the torsion bar. They need to be stretched over the end of the torsion bar and I find that difficult. although if you're stronger/younger they might be easy enough. So off to the hardware store for a few plastic pipe fittings. Rounded off the sharp corners. The bit on the right is just a "stand" that comes out when the boot is on:

An incantation with red rubber grease of course

Then take out the "stand" (and the top if you like)

Hold it firmly against the torsion bar and quickly slide it on.

Easy!

The other boot faces the opposite way so for that I turned it inside out, slid it on the same way, then when it was on the bar it was easy to flip it back the other way.

[lowfat]

sweet invention

[Tony B]

Patent it!! :-D Brilliant