restoration Ozzie Saladin

[timbo]

Fourfox may well have drawings for the tinwork.

 

Keep going you are doing well.

[lynx42 Rick Cove]

A cheeky question! I plan to get the mudguards fabricated rather than spending ages fixing the old ones. These are so dinged and dented that I'm not entirely sure of what angles the metal needs to be bent for the front ones. Does anyone have a pdf of the profiles? If not I'll fettle away.

Have cleaned out and painted most of the inside and have the gearbox off and diesel-paraffin 50:50 soaking in the bores to see if I can turn the engine (before taking off the head). Picking up my patched petrol tank (pin holes under the hydraulic oil tank) and serviced radiator tomorrow and will then seal the tanks with the POR 15 from frost.co.uk. Ordered new bar grips (not run flat) from L Jackson and Co. They have around 50 of them and also a couple of run flats.

 

Aussie, I have a pair of rear mudguards here. They have slight surface rust but are yours if you want them. I live 300km east of Melbourne but can deliver to a transport depot if needed. Price?? You might have something to swap. I'll take some photos if you want.

 

Regards Rick.

[Aussie]

Thanks Rick

Rear ones are not a problem, they're fairly simple folds. The front ones are a bit more involved but I think I have it sorted. Thanks for the offer though. James.

[WCMatt]

Subscribed! Always liked the look of AFVs w/o their turrets on. Wonder what the performance of that saladin would be like w/o all that weight? Also curious about that "chopped" ferret. Interesting mod to the rear plate.

 

Matt

[timbo]

Subscribed! Always liked the look of AFVs w/o their turrets on. Wonder what the performance of that saladin would be like w/o all that weight? Also curious about that "chopped" ferret. Interesting mod to the rear plate.

 

Matt

 

Well the purpose of removing the turret was to upgun the m113's rather than to make the Sally faster, but it is an interesting thought. Put a 50 cal mount in the hole and it would make an interesting recce vehicle, much like the wartime Stuarts that had this done. I imagine it would fly!!! I wonder if it was the upgunned m113's that inspired the fv432/30's....?

 

 

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[WCMatt]

Well the purpose of removing the turret was to upgun the m113's rather than to make the Sally faster, but it is an interesting thought. Put a 50 cal mount in the hole and it would make an interesting recce vehicle, much like the wartime Stuarts that had this done. I imagine it would fly!!! I wonder if it was the upgunned m113's that inspired the fv432/30's....?

 

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I was aware of why the Aussies removed the turrets from the Saladins (to make fire support vehicles out of the M113s). But thought that when they were finished with them, the turrets were then reunited with their armored car bodies. Guess this wasn't the case after all?

 

Don't know but it was a good idea for a low budget SPG. A turret-less Saladin armed with a .50 cal MG ala Stuart recce. I guess then the turreted M113 is sort of reminisent of the M5 SPG?

 

Matt

 

[Aussie]

An update - nothing too exciting but I'm now looking at the wheel stations and brakes - and only have Saracen EMERs. So if anyone has Saladin EMERs for wheel stations, brakes and engine, or pointers to where I could get some, I'd be really grateful. Anyway …

After getting the engine out I had a great time wire brushing, scraping and digging crud out of the interior, and its now looking almost civilised!

 

 

With 2 coats of undercoat over rust inhibitor (now mainly silver):

On to the shock absorbers - Allen plugs in the top brackets were a challenge, mainly the ones against the hull where I couldn't get enough force with an allen key. Made a little wrench by welding the top of a bolt to a bit of angle iron. Once they were "started" an allen key did the rest.

The bottom shafts were hard to shift. Made an "extractor" out of angle iron (getting a lot of value out of that bar!). A couple were impossible to pull but I discovered that there isn't any block between the two shafts so was able to bash out the offenders with a thick rebar and heavy hammer and heat.

The centre and rear shockers were solidly fixed to the hull brackets, so ended up drilling the nuts off. Pulled a bump-rebound damper apart. These are really simple and easy to clean up (the actual rubbers were ok).

Now - how do I remove the wheel stations and check/fix the brakes? Help please! A couple of diagrams would help but until i've got one off and apart it's hard to visualise what to do. The rubber gaiters are shot and there's a fair bit of oil leaking/leaked, so i need to get at the seal where it joins the bevel box and probably others, wherever they are. Also need to replace the bevel box seals. I understand the top and bottom suspension shafts but don't follow how the tracta shafts come apart. Don't really want to remove the bevel boxes if i don't have to.

Cheers

James

[Catch 22 LBDR]

If the wheel station is the same as the Stalwart (it had me stumped for ages) then in order to separate the two shafts you need to drift out the retaining pin.

 

To do this locate what look like two oil bungs in the stub shaft between the bevel box and wheel station. There should be one front and one rear. remove both bungs then look in the hole and turn the hub until you see the pin on the shaft come into view. then insert a punch into the hole and drift the pin out.

 

It's bean a while since I did this but I seam to remember that the wishbone pins will only drift one direction.

Edited November 2, 2013 by Catch 22 LBDR

[cooler07]

Excellent pictures! I`m watching this because I will soon be removing a front left wheel station because a bevel box is leaking inside my Saladin. Keep up the work!!!

[cooler07]

Also so found this on you tube, it`s a Stalwart but it does give an idea.....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCc0PwXMXlk

[Starfire]

Is that a MK 6 Saracen in the background?

[ferretfixer]

If you have issues with the brake slave units. Be CAREFULL! EACH Axle has DIFFERENT slave units! You would THINK they would all be handed, or universaly the same. They are NOT! I discovered this when I owned a Saladin myself, & needed a new slave unit. :nut:

[Aussie]

Thanks guys. I'll have a crack at it tomorrow.

Re the brakes, I'm flying blind at the moment (need EMERs). However, I'm thinking I could take the outside brake plate off and get at them to see if they're stuck, or at least not do any harm - would that be reasonable?

Re the Saracen, it served in NI and with the 28 squadron Gurkha reg in Hong Kong. It has reverse flow cooling so Mk 3 but I think the Mk 6 was just an upamoured mk 3, mainly for NI, so sounds possible. I don't know exactly what that involved but you obviously have a keen eye! So if you can let me know I'll have a look and let you know.

[Starfire]

The MK 6 Saracen was a MK 3 that had extra armour added and a few other upgrades, itself a MK 2 with reverse flow cooling. Externally, the most telling are that the MK 6 does not have a rear gun ring or roof window, Has a round flange around the base of the turret, has a squared cover over the fuel filter and has heavy armour plates welded to the sides. Internally, the MK 6 is fitted with brown spall liners.

 

Cheers,

Terry

[Aussie]

Thanks for that Terry. Then it's a Mk 3 as I'd originally thought.

[griff66]

first thing i would do is give each wheel station a damn good clean least u can then see what yah doing:cool2:

[Aussie]

Think I ran out of time to get pics inserted, so will try again and ignore previous post (maybe an administrator could remove it?).

This is an outline of how I removed the right centre wheel station, and hopefully will help someone tackling this.

 

1. The hand brake attachment to the brake drum had me perplexed but it's just held on by a cir clip (or e clip) so lever it off and the cable comes out the slot at the back of the housing.

2. Unscrewing the hydraulic line from the brake plate just "wound it up". Unscrewed easily from the hull end, where there is a sleeve that allows the nut to turn.

3. Undo the drain plug and drain the wheel station (I got about 300ml!)

4. Instructions were to remove the cable housing from the back of the brake plate but couldn't see the point. However my beast is pretty much disassembled so might need to do this if the hydraulics etc are all connected.

5. Remove the steering link. Couldn't get mine off from the brake end (wouldn't fit past housing on back of the brake plate) and had to drill out the nut on the ball joint on the hull end because it was just all spinning around.

6. Wedges for holding the top suspension bracket horizontal - angle grinder and a bit of welding for the handles.

7. Remove tension on the torsion bar by winding adjuster up as high as it will go. BUT first count the exposed threads so you can get it back in the same position. Mine had 12 threads - wrote it on the hull and must remember to not wire brush it off before writing it somewhere else!

8. Then lift up wheel station so top link is horizontal, and slip wedges between the bottom of the top link and the stops attached to hull. Then remove hoist and the wheel station is fully supported by the top link.

9. Now remove the bottom suspension link shaft and let it hang down. There are locking taper pins for both upper shaft (to rear) and bottom shaft (underneath the front end) to remove first. Then drive out the lower shaft FORWARD, i.e. hitting the end with the single hole in it. This the opposite end to where the locking pin was.

 

Edited Nov '14. This isn't correct for the newer shafts! Mine were early ones and completely straight. On fiddling with a NOS wheel station I discovered that the newer shafts have a swelling at the end with single hole in it. So it didn't actually matter which way I bashed my straight shafts but for the newer ones (and logically for all) the shaft needs to come out with the single hole first. In other words, if you are hitting one end it needs to be the OPPOSITE end, NOT the one with the single hole. First pic shows old (straight) shaft on left and newer one on right.

Second pic shows the direction the shaft actually needs to come out. You can't remove the newer ones in the opposite direction, due to the swelling on the end with the single hole.

(Put a jack under the bottom link so it doesn't drop when the shaft comes out). Note you don't need the hoist for this step - everything is supported on the top suspension link.

The bottom shaft was very dry, and while the taper locking pin for the top shaft was ok, the bottom one (on the right) was broken and therefore useless as a locking pin.

10. Remove the drain plug under the bevel box and drain (I got about 30ml!). Then remove the strap holding the bevel box end of the rubber boot and peel back. (Not sure that you really need to peel it back, and have a horrible feeling that my spherical housing might have a few dings in it).

11. Almost there! Attach your chain/pulley (I used and old bit off a 3 phase winch) or make up a jacking bracket (seemed too complicated for me) and take the weight of the wheel station. The knock out the top suspension link shaft - so the end with the single hole comes out first

 

12. Now just pull back gently and it all slides out, beautifully balanced on the chain!

 

What didn't I do? I removed the whole unit rather than trying to disconnect the intermediate shaft pin, because I figure this will be easier with it all out, and I want to get at the oil seal at the bevel box end anyway. Now for more research to see where to go next!

Cheers

James

Edited November 5, 2014 by Aussie

[robin craig]

Very interesting read.

 

Just how many Saladins do you think there are left running now in Australia out of how many released?

 

R

[Aussie]

Not sure. Out of 15 released all had their turrets removed to beef up M113s, then 6 M113s were sold to New Zealand minus their turrets. So 6 turrets found their way back to Saladins (I guess), leaving 9 "headless" ones. There's one at Puckapunyal Army Museum, one that I know is being restored at present, and I think another (but might be the same one) that was on utube a while back. I've seen an M113 with Saladin turret - they do look pretty cool - and a chopped one (no turret or armour above hull line) in a paddock that will probably end up being restored.

An HMVF member is restoring a turret in UK for me so I'll end up with a complete vehicle (10 year plan!).

Interestingly, I have a photo of a photo of my vehicle around 1965 in the Aus army, but can't post it without permission from the owner of the pic (Prince of Wales light Horse Museum).

[cooler07]

Excellent read.!!! Any chance you could get a close up picture, pictures of the bevel box from the outside looking in at the housing? Thanks

[Aussie]

Pic from "the outside looking in" probably not all that helpful because it's "3D", with a tubular housing and with the bevel box shaft sticking out from the base.

Still I find pics less confusing than drawings so here's a couple. The tracta shaft slides into the tubular housing and the cork gasket can be seen near the outer edge. EMERs warn not to damage this, and I didn't but confess I had no idea where or what it was beforehand!

The oil seal fits between the spherical end of the shaft and the inner aspect of the cylindrical bit in the last pic. It's quite a thick rubber ring.

On swivelling the housing (only rotates up and down, of course) the oil seal wiped off the gunk on the sphere, so a gentle clean should fix that. (On first looking at it I thought I might need to use wet and dry paper). There are small gaps visible between the seal and the housing, and between the seal and the sphere, but this might be the way it fits, with deeper portion doing the sealing.

Now my question, and please be gentle! I have no mechanical know-how other than what I'm gradually learning. I'm yet to get the seals, however do I just lever the old one out and push in the new - i.e. will it "click" into place and stay there? I assume that's the case but will I need to fix it in with a sealant/glue of some sort?

 

Next adventure will be to see why the front wheels are seized - it isn't the brakes so...

[101 Ron]

Tim has all the seals and those special bolts and has been going though his large store of spare parts and located everything needed.

Now is the time to ring Tim while he has everything fresh in his mind after chasing the same parts for me.

The O rings are off the shelf items , I think the common P/Ns were 214 and 221.

Tim also has the spacers that carry the O rings if needed.

He seems to have Hundreds of every item.

The seals for the big ball joint are special items.

To remove it you just carefully support the bronze housing between some blocks of wood and get a very large screw driver and place the tip of the screw driver behind the seal and give the screw driver some hard taps with a hammer.

I am going to carefully try and knock in a new one with a flat plate or block of wood.

One of the workshop books shows a drawing to make a seal fitting tool with appears to be a round plate and a bolt pulling down on the new seal pressing it into place.

Ron.

Edited November 15, 2013 by 101 Ron

[AlanS]

first thing i would do is give each wheel station a damn good clean least u can then see what yah doing:cool2:

I don't know about Saracen/Saladin but a good rule of thumb is to back off any brake adjusters

[Richard Farrant]

.

 

 

The oil seal fits between the spherical end of the shaft and the inner aspect of the cylindrical bit in the last pic. It's quite a thick rubber ring.

 

On swivelling the housing (only rotates up and down, of course) the oil seal wiped off the gunk on the sphere, so a gentle clean should fix that. (On first looking at it I thought I might need to use wet and dry paper). There are small gaps visible between the seal and the housing, and between the seal and the sphere, but this might be the way it fits, with deeper portion doing the sealing.

 

 

Now my question, and please be gentle! I have no mechanical know-how other than what I'm gradually learning. I'm yet to get the seals, however do I just lever the old one out and push in the new - i.e. will it "click" into place and stay there? I assume that's the case but will I need to fix it in with a sealant/glue of some sort?

 

 

 

The tracta seal is the one that bears on the spherical surface, it has a wiper edge which you can see and inside a sealing edge. You have to dismantle the assembly to remove the seal and fit a new one. On no account should you tap the seal in around the edge with a hammer, this will distort the seal and it may not then touch the surface in places. It needs to be fitted using a large plate or piece of flat hard wood, then carefully knock it in, or press if you have one. Care taken now will pay off otherwise you will be to square one with a leak again. You mentioned seeing a gap between the seal and the housing, once the seal is removed, check for signs of butchery, ie burrs in the housing from where the last person prised a seal out.

 

best of luck

regards Richard

[Catch 22 LBDR]

This looks very similar to the Ferret drive assembly. It's bean a few years since I did them.:nut: .

 

The cork gasket was straight forward. I cut the old one off and with a bit of oil/grease I pushed on the new one. It stretched over the brass housing fine.

 

Any old oil seal can be prized out with a screwdriver, they will be a tight fit. The secret to refitting the new seal is to try and tap it in evenly. The new seals can be damaged easily so get a few spare ones (always handy). They will normally come against a shoulder so make sure the seal is pressed in fully to this shoulder.