Just picked up another old spec L1A1

[tinweasle]

Right, just got this off the web site of a well known dealer of deac wepons where it was advetised as being a Birmingham made L1A1 unfortunatly it turns out to be a bit of a mix of parts as non of the numbers match, I should have asked more questions but as its only my second deac I didnt think.

 

The top part of the recever is marked as BSA if I remember the codes correctly and the bottom part looks to be marked with an arrow by the stock with a 7 pointed star above an 8 above that, and its marked S, R, and A on the safty but the switch wont go far enough around to select A

 

However on this side the prefix is AD which I think is from Oz

 

 

Also above the hinge and upsidedown its stamped 12Y then what looks like a capital D with an arrow comming out the top followed by a triangle

 

And the deac cert gives belgium as the country of origin, so have I got a pup, and is the AD marked part from an L1A1 or the fully auto support version or even the metric FAL?

 

 

Cheers

 

 

Shaun

[Pete]

Any help with the "AD" stamp?

http://weaponsonline.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=l1a1&action=display&thread=906

According to the above link it's Aussie or Kiwi.

The "UB" is BSA though.

Edited July 5, 2012 by Pete

[Chris Hall]

AD is the prefix of Lithgow in Australia. The UB is BSA but the number is a restamp.

[ferrettkitt]

Funny no where else could you actually get away selling something that it isn't but in the military world. Which dealer did you buy it off so that we can avoid them with a barge pole.

[ferretfixer]

Right, just got this off the web site of a well known dealer of deac wepons where it was advetised as being a Birmingham made L1A1 unfortunatly it turns out to be a bit of a mix of parts as non of the numbers match, I should have asked more questions but as its only my second deac I didnt think.

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]64231[/ATTACH]

The top part of the recever is marked as BSA if I remember the codes correctly and the bottom part looks to be marked with an arrow by the stock with a 7 pointed star above an 8 above that, and its marked S, R, and A on the safty but the switch wont go far enough around to select A

[ATTACH=CONFIG]64232[/ATTACH]

 

However on this side the prefix is AD which I think is from Oz

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]64233[/ATTACH]

 

Also above the hinge and upsidedown its stamped 12Y then what looks like a capital D with an arrow comming out the top followed by a triangle

 

And the deac cert gives belgium as the country of origin, so have I got a pup, and is the AD marked part from an L1A1 or the fully auto support version or even the metric FAL?

 

 

Cheers

 

 

Shaun

 

The 12Y is the locking shoulder size. & the 'D' is the sylised Enfield Lock Logo. That is correct, it could have been fitted as a replacement part in a Main Worshop. When the headspacing (Size of the chamber for the cartridge) stretches or alters from service wear. The next size up would be fitted. You COULD correctly have enfield locking shoulders fitted to Aussie SLRs. As they also served alongside brit rifles to supplement supply. This rifle however, is a 'Bitsa' made up from parts from two different weapons. I hope you didnt pay the full current price for an Old Spec on this deal!...

[Scotch Harry]

Also note its fitted with a SUIT sight,did that come with the gun,if so being old spec and with a SUIT I dread to think what it cost:shocked:

[tinweasle]

The SUIT was acquired at the same time but was not on the rifle, and no it wasn't cheap at £995 for the rifle, got a feeling i have been stung a little, I got it from D&B and to be fair it looks in good condition. Oh well anyone know what its worth?

 

Cheers

 

Shaun

[Pete]

Jeez, the price of a 2nd hand car!

As far as D&B goes:

http://hmvf.co.uk/forumvb/showthread.php?28670-7-62mm-30-Round-Bren-FN-FAL-Magazine

And I'm still waiting for the mag' catch from them!

[skiprat]

nice hythe sight tho..... (£70-£100)sorry to say I think the suit sight mount is a reproduction.... I am sure the mounts were spot welded AND silver solderd to the top cover. Even these repro mounts are £100 + as you need one to fit the suit sight (and there are more sights than mounts!!!!) Its worth what you payed for it (If you payed the price chances are somone else would) they will not make any more... one sold at a local auction 3 years ago for £600 (same type of mix and match mutt)

[ferrettkitt]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]64290[/ATTACH]

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]64291[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]64292[/ATTACH]

 

Have a look at my one UB61 A140860 it wasn't expensive but it screwed me on a deal that I had for Ferret parts which in the long run will cost me more.

[tinweasle]

Its in really nice condition though, i have been looking for one just like that for years now.

 

As for mine its old spec so i can strip it down and it looks good in till you check the numbers so will be fine on the rack at shows so it will do what i want it to and its a learning experience

 

Cheers everyone

 

Shaun

[ferrettkitt]

Its in really nice condition though, i have been looking for one just like that for years now.

 

As for mine its old spec so i can strip it down and it looks good in till you check the numbers so will be fine on the rack at shows so it will do what i want it to and its a learning experience

 

Cheers everyone

 

Shaun

 

My one is an early spec deac bought from a colleague of my better half Janine, it came with the Hyth sight, plastic furniture and extra mags. Right time right place and a smattering of luck.

[mike65]

You do of course have the right to return for refund or what ever under the trade description act as the item was not as described. Given the facts they might want to do a deal. If you do not ask you do not get.

However what is the correct price for a matchng numbers item in the same condition?

Most importantly you have to be happy that what you paid and what you got (for your purpose) is right.

 

Not an expert in anyway on weapons/deacts but I may need one one day for my Landy, but low on the list. So best to learn what you can.

 

Mike

[Stanleyrf89]

Does your deac certirficate say that it was originally processed by Helston Arms? they seem to have produced a batch of "bitsa" SLR's just before the new specification deac rules came into force, in December 1994. I've got one of theirs, and it has a BSA lower receiver and upper receiver, but with mis matched serial numbers.

[airportable]

Matching ser. No's? Few years back sat and had a lesson at a event by a armourer who had worked at MOD Donnington. Told us that when SLR's came in for refurb etc. this part went in that box, that part went in another etc. etc. When they were rebuilt a part came from that box, checked and fitted. Another part came from another...etc. etc. Told us that if the ser. no's matched, had never been issued or seen very, very little service and never been for refurb. Dont know, just what we were told by a armourer.

[skiprat]

SORRY THAT WAS NO ARMOURER....:mad:

all the serial numbers ALWAYS, ALWAYS matched.. even if the Armourer that was rebuilding the rifle had to re engrave the correct numbers,,, (the master number was on the upper reciver)

 

somtimes the lower trigger mech. housing was fitted from another rifle and would be re-numbed ... but it WOULD be re-numberd to match the reciver,,,,, In theory an Australian trigger mech could be fitted to a BSA reciver

 

but it would be re-numberd......:mad:

 

 

her endeth a proper LESSON...:angel:

[andym]

Exactly - from an engineering and common sense point of view, if you're going to muddle them up what's the point of having the numbers in the first place? You'd only need a single number somewhere just to uniquely identify the weapon.

 

Andy

[ferretfixer]

SORRY THAT WAS NO ARMOURER....:mad:

all the serial numbers ALWAYS, ALWAYS matched.. even if the Armourer that was rebuilding the rifle had to re engrave the correct numbers,,, (the master number was on the upper reciver)

 

somtimes the lower trigger mech. housing was fitted from another rifle and would be re-numbed ... but it WOULD be re-numberd to match the reciver,,,,, In theory an Australian trigger mech could be fitted to a BSA reciver

 

but it would be re-numberd......:mad:

 

 

her endeth a proper LESSON...:angel:

 

Been to Donnington MANY times in the course & connection of Smallarms delivery & collection for major repairs.

Almost ALL of the 'Armorers' there were civvies. Who were employed as 'Fitters' & worked from E.M.E.Rs.

On an SLR L1A1 Rifle. The ACTUAL componants that were MATCHED serial numbered were: The Reciever, The Trigger Mech Housing, The Breech Block & Breech Block Carrier. ALL other componants were NOT serial numbered. (part numbered from factory, yes. in some instances)

 

The reason for numbering the Block & carrier Etc. Was that these componants were Gauged & fitted individualy, & were critical to the functioning of the weapon. In fact, there were many other small componants that were also individualy fitted to each rifle, but were NOT numbered!

 

The correct way to overhaul of rustproof a rifle was that all FITTED parts were put in a numbered box & the box marked.

With the weapons serial number, that way the critical componants did not get mixed up & it would save a LOT of time on rebuild (Remember, when you are paying a civillian workforce, time is money!)

 

Parts that were individualy fitted apart from the above mentioned on an SLR include: Flash eliminator, gas cylinder, Return spring tube, body locking catch, (IF fitted with Wooden Furntiture, this ALSO was individually fitted, believe it or not!)

 

In SOME workshops however, ALL parts that were NOT individually fitted, were inspected for servicability, vapour blasted, parkerised (Rustproofed) & spayed with Suncorite 259 heat resisting paint & baked in an oven for 30 mins (until cooked!) & then oil dipped.

Tipped into large parts bins containing each of the same componant on a Long shelf. ready for reassembly to weapons on rebuild.

 

I was on a six month attachment on Out inspections (Post Overhaul) on smallarms in a Field Workshop. & can vouch for the above as a true account of general practice in Field Workshops.

 

Andy's comment on fitting Treg Mech housings from differing commonwealth countries rifles in British service is correct.

If a replacement trig mech housing, or breech block or Carrier were fitted to SLRs. Then they WOULD be gauged & RE Serial Numbered to comply with THAT particular weapon. Usualy, the OLD serial number would be milled out & then Reengraved with the new rifle's master number.

 

As an aside, the Barrel was also a critical componant that was gauged regularly to ensure safety & correct functioning.

It was SOoooooo tightly screwed into the reciever (Breeched up) that it was always left in the reciever when re- rustproofing.

it was NOT serial numbered to the rifle, even though that it was one of the most critical parts from the heart of the system!

Fitting a new barrel was a job in itself!..Im not even going to go into that! (Unless someone needs to know of that task particularly for research purposes!)

[airportable]

Very intresting, thank you.

[5645andym]

Been to Donnington MANY times in the course & connection of Smallarms delivery & collection for major repairs. . . Fitting a new barrel was a job in itself!..Im not even going to go into that! (Unless someone needs to know of that task particularly for research purposes!)

 

Would love to hear about barrel fitting please, just out of curiosity, if you have the time to post.

[ArtistsRifles]

Would love to hear about barrel fitting please, just out of curiosity, if you have the time to post.

 

Yes - same here please!!