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My copy of a RAF Fordson armoured car


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That vehicle looks just cool! And it would please me in particular, if you would present it in "Desert colors" at the end :-)

 

To that subject I can recommend the book Steel Chariots in the Desert: The First World War Experiences of a Rolls Royce Armoured Car Driver with the Duke of Westminster in Libya and in Arabia with T.E.Lawrence

 

It is a fascinating reading (for those who are interested in the Desert War....)

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I am not sure about that, Tony, although I am not really familiar with these vehicles. What I recall is that the RAF armoured cars were first employed in France as some sort of protected transport for high ranking officers behind the front line. But they considered it as way too uncomfortable and only then, since nobody had a better idea, these vehicles were sent to the Middle East.

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Intially improvised armoured car coloums with improvised armoured buses were used by the Roayal Marines at Antwerp. Though by the time enough purpose built vehicles were ready the Race to the Sea had ended and the lines becomes static. Most vehicles were employed in UK for Home Defence. Theses were under the Navy and RFC. Pressure was put on the squadrons to release man power to the Western Front, and some later formed the basis of the Royal Tank Corp. The machines themselves were of very little use in trench warfare.

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If we're going to get picky, then the primogenitor of British armoured cars was Cmdr C R Samson. He led the Eastchurch Squadron over to France in 1914, but due to the unreliability of those early aircraft too many became U/S. Instead, inspired by the Belgian armoured cars, he armed a couple of the squadrons vehicles (these were various makes of Tourers and Sports types owned by the pilots themselves) with machine guns and undertook patrols. Eventually they were fitted with some form of armour at Dunkirk. It’s in his autobiography “Fights and Flights” a fantastic read for anyone interested in the era. It was the RNAS that were the main armoured car using air force – the RAF wasn’t formed until 1st April 1918, don’t forget! – and used a range of vehicles.

 

Also, “Steel chariots in the desert” only deal with the First World War, fine for the early pattern Rolls Royce, but the Fordson didn’t come around until the sequel. Still a very good book though.

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Perhaps they decided to it as well independently. I know Samson is usually cited as the person proving the utility of the armoured car to the British establishment. I have a copy of Fletcher's War Cars at work, so I'll have a look tomorrow and see what it says.

 

Back on topic, a Fordson would have to be desert colours as 2 Armoured Car Company, RAF were the only users of the type.

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Perhaps they decided to it as well independently. I know Samson is usually cited as the person proving the utility of the armoured car to the British establishment. I have a copy of Fletcher's War Cars at work, so I'll have a look tomorrow and see what it says.

 

Back on topic, a Fordson would have to be desert colours as 2 Armoured Car Company, RAF were the only users of the type.

 

There are lots of photos on the internet and film on PATHE of 2 Sqn's Fordsons in the Caunter scheme, attached are a couple. The third attachment is from an order of the time giving the correct colours for the Caunter scheme ' The colour without a BSC is the then new Kahki Green No 3. TED

2 Sqn Ft Rutbah Iraq june 1941.jpg

2 Sqn June 1941 Ft Rutbah Iraq  Fordson 1.jpg

1940 july Caunter scheme.jpg

Edited by ted angus
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To b414,

Your reconstruction of this Fordson is admirable, considering it done outside,in all weathers and in full public view. On that point what was the reaction of neighbours when you brought home the vehicle then began to strip it down?

I image there would have been some disapproving comments, however interested to know if this attitude changed as the new body took shape.

Did the neighbours show any supporting interest in the project?

Doug

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Caunter scheme is really eye catching. Would make the vehicle definitly stand out.

 

I have always thought we hear very little about the pre WW2 period when the RAF Armoured car Sqns enforced the law in those distant lands, so I wanted to do a RR circa 1937 in Iraq No 1 A C Co , Just about finished that when I read about No 2 A C Co on loan to the Army as D Sqn 11 Hussars so researched the Caunter and produced the attached pair.

TED

DSCF1236crop.jpg

DSCF1240crop.jpg

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On post No.86 above it seems to me that the turrets of the two vehicles in front are slightly different. The sloped part of the vehicle in the background goes further down than on the vehicle in the foreground - is this possible or only something wrong with my eyes?

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The RAF inherited a lot of their Rolls Royces from the War Department who in turn had taken over from the RNAS and the early RNAS 1914 pattern had shallower sided turrets than the later patterns. So as Fletcher says, it's quite possible for a '14 pattern body to have survived on three different chassis.

 

As to the earlier diversion, it appears that it was Samson himself who organised for the LGOC buses, that had been supplied to support the Eastchurch Squadron, to be armoured for the Marines so that they could support his cars!

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There are many RAF Arm car pictures on the internet plus many of the 11 Hussars in Palestine pre WW2. Especially The Library of Congress site where a Palestine search will throw up a mass of UK vehicles. On a modelling forum where some of the members go to extreme lengths to research vehicle types there was a mass of talk on the armoured cars; My head was buzzing and I couldn't keep pace with it- but what I did glean was the RAF's first cars were as Bryan says starting with WW1 pattern, it seems the different army types are well documented and then there are those built for the Air Ministry culminating with the Fordson remounts by Thomas Cook Garage of Cairo. The turret depth in the LIFE picture in my post 86 were highlighted to me and are the product of 2 different build batches/years.

Attached are 2 more shots, there is a famous picture that has been published many times which shows a guy in a peaked cap standing on a fordson turret during thier time as D Sqn captions often say an army officer standing on the car giving inmstructions to the RAFchaps - Mnn I would think 2 ACC could give the Hussars a lesson or two I think the guy in the shot I refer to is one of the RAF crew ' The peaked cap was often the chosen headdress of car crews and they remained on issue to MT drivers throughout WW2 .

TED

Fordson-crew-w-desert.jpg

Fordson-primus-stove.jpg

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To b414,

Your reconstruction of this Fordson is admirable, considering it done outside,in all weathers and in full public view. On that point what was the reaction of neighbours when you brought home the vehicle then began to strip it down?

I image there would have been some disapproving comments, however interested to know if this attitude changed as the new body took shape.

Did the neighbours show any supporting interest in the project?

Doug

Hi Doug just seen the comments on the car when I first got the tipper there where some disbelieve in what I wanted to do with it from the neighbours and when I got the 9ins grinder out to cut up the body and then cut the 5mm steel plate with it they were not two pleased but after a bit they put up with it. But when it came to put the turret on one or two came to help put it on but to most I was the loony round the corner. But there has been some interest from the local paper and they have done an article on it last week here is a link if you are interested in it http://www.barnsley-chronicle.co.uk/news/article/6784/ex-mechanic-builds-armoured-car-in-garden cheers bill :nut::nut::nut:

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That vehicle looks just cool! And it would please me in particular, if you would present it in "Desert colors" at the end :-)

 

To that subject I can recommend the book Steel Chariots in the Desert: The First World War Experiences of a Rolls Royce Armoured Car Driver with the Duke of Westminster in Libya and in Arabia with T.E.Lawrence

 

It is a fascinating reading (for those who are interested in the Desert War....)

Hi Kuno thanks for the interest in the car it will be inDesert Colours the colours will be Portland stone / slate /silver grey as in the caunter scheme by Mike Starmer which he has sent me a design for the car for which I am grateful here is a up to date photo and if your interested in some history of number 2 raf armoured car squadron you can find some on my site which I thinkis correct here is the link http://militaryreplicas.bravesites.com/ Cheers Bill ps thanks for the heads up on the book :-):-):-) new piant tank 006.JPG

new piant tank 007.JPG

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Another of the Looney brigade.. welcome!

In thinking of your achievement, trying to do the same in New Zealand would lead to a whole round of administration problems with getting the vehicle back on the road. The chassis being a recent unit is the basis of dating and legislative changes. A change in body style (for non vintage vehicles) would need to be inspected and probably would not comply as the chassis date would require the vehicle to have seat belts, and seats with approved mounting points, etc, along with a multitude of similar points to stumble on.

It is these little bits that would otherwise detract from the overall finish.

Do you have the same problem and how do you get around such issues?

Doug

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Another of the Looney brigade.. welcome!

In thinking of your achievement, trying to do the same in New Zealand would lead to a whole round of administration problems with getting the vehicle back on the road. The chassis being a recent unit is the basis of dating and legislative changes. A change in body style (for non vintage vehicles) would need to be inspected and probably would not comply as the chassis date would require the vehicle to have seat belts, and seats with approved mounting points, etc, along with a multitude of similar points to stumble on.

It is these little bits that would otherwise detract from the overall finish.

Do you have the same problem and how do you get around such issues?

Doug

 

Hi it as seat belts and two land rover seats I will post a photo of them tomorrow it was classed as a straight body swap but supply plentyof photos for them cheers Bill :nut::nut::nut:

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