BenHawkins Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 I was sent these photos of a veteran engine from Australia. It was thought it was a White and Poppe as I require for my 1908 Dennis but I am pretty certain it is not. I have looked through the period literature I have and I can not work out the manufacturer. It is of T head construction typical of WWI period engines with four separate cylinder blocks. The bore is 4.5" and the stroke 4.75" Each big end has four retaining bolts. The cams have roller followers. Obviously it has no manufacurer or serial number stampings. Any suggestions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runflat Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 I seem to recall Austin engines had individual blocks like this... but may be wrong (probably am). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Bill Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 Do we know whether the engine is imperial or metric? Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Peskett Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 Similar to an Austin but the crankcase is quite wrong etc. Richard Peskett. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenHawkins Posted July 25, 2011 Author Share Posted July 25, 2011 Thanks for the comments so far. I have asked the owner for some more information. In the mean time I thought I would start an A-Z of veteran truck engines. A is for Aster Although their engine had simlar cylinder blocks and timing cases the crankcase looks very different. I can't think of any past W! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenHawkins Posted July 27, 2011 Author Share Posted July 27, 2011 I have had a response from the owner. All the threads on the engine are Whitworth. The priming cups came with the engine and I recognise these as manufactured by Rotherhams of Coventry so everything points towards the engine being of UK origin. Some other veteran lorry engines starting with A are: Ailsa-Craig Alldays and Onions I have Armstrong-Whitworth as making lorries but I don't know if they fitted their own engine. Agains Arrol-Johnston made a 2 ton chassis but I don't know who made the engine. There were a suprising number of engines available up to and including WWI Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Herbert Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 I am not sure when metric threads became common in Europe. Certainly the major German manufacturers of steam locomotives used whitworth threads into the 1920s - but with metric heads usually of similar size to the heads that we are used to but not the same. Presumably the metric threads that we use (fine, medium and course ) were in use before they were officialy standardised but they were certainly not universal in WW1. In fact pre-metric measurements still pop up in non tech use all over europe. Obviously the Rotherhams of Coventry priming cups is a good clue though ! David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Peskett Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 I have doubts that it is a lorry engine but obviously of British manufacture. Large car more likely ?, which gives a much larger variety of options; the mounting webs are not very substantial. Richard Peskett Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenHawkins Posted July 27, 2011 Author Share Posted July 27, 2011 Thanks Richard, I was thinking it was probably from a lorry of around two ton payload, however I will have a look through my "the Motor supplement 1914" and see if anything looks promising. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CornishMade Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 I was sent these photos of a veteran engine from Australia. It was thought it was a White and Poppe as I require for my 1908 Dennis but I am pretty certain it is not. I have looked through the period literature I have and I can not work out the manufacturer. [ATTACH=CONFIG]48805[/ATTACH] It is of T head construction typical of WWI period engines with four separate cylinder blocks. [ATTACH=CONFIG]48804[/ATTACH] The bore is 4.5" and the stroke 4.75" [ATTACH=CONFIG]48803[/ATTACH] Each big end has four retaining bolts. [ATTACH=CONFIG]48802[/ATTACH] The cams have roller followers. Obviously it has no manufacurer or serial number stampings. Any suggestions? Is the stroke right at 4.75, because this could mean a fast rev engine,ie. Peerless is 4.5 by 6.5 and this revs at about 1000 rpm, the crankcase, camshaft come outside the cover, could be an auxillary drive? the magneto looks similar to a Bosch DU4 which turns clockwise, could the carburettor be Claude L Hobson? theres's a small updraft on the carb this could cause freezing of the fuel ie, vapour goes down to a liquid could it be a marine engine???? or a stationery because there are access panels on the side crankcase???? you could strip the top half of the engine without taking the sump down any help???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenHawkins Posted July 31, 2011 Author Share Posted July 31, 2011 I have looked through my list of cars being sold in 1914 and very few approach these dimensions and none are a close match. If may of course be earlier than that. I think the stroke is close to 4.75", but has not been measured properly. The carburetor is a Zenith. The access panels on the crankcase were relatively common. The White and Poppe subsidy model certainly has them. It may have had a stationary or marine use. Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CornishMade Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 I have looked through my list of cars being sold in 1914 and very few approach these dimensions and none are a close match. If may of course be earlier than that. I think the stroke is close to 4.75", but has not been measured properly. The carburetor is a Zenith. The access panels on the crankcase were relatively common. The White and Poppe subsidy model certainly has them. It may have had a stationary or marine use. Ben I showed my father your pics and he was very interested, these are his thinkings about the engine, he also said to look between block 2 and block 3, is there an engine number between them, that's where he found his engine number on the peerless a bit hidden away,,, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nz2 Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 The use of two sets of spark plugs indicates a fire engine use, however there is only one magneto and no mounting apparent for a second magneto, nor any provision for drive should it have been mounted on the other side of the engine. The pattern of the cylinders has some similarity to a Halley engine but the crank case shape is different. Another line of research to consider would be aviation engine manufacturers. The use of individual cylinder casting leads that way, but I understand aircraft engines had no flywheel, relying on the size of the propeller to maintain momentum. Again the twin spark plugs makes one think of aviation. Which manufacturers of aviation engines also supplied engines for other uses? Doug:undecided: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenHawkins Posted August 2, 2011 Author Share Posted August 2, 2011 I think the two spark plugs may just be a way of plugging the second set of valve caps but I will ask the question. The early manufacturers of fire engines in the UK were Dennis (using White and Poppe engines), Merryweather (using Aster engines), Shand-Mason (on a Maudslay chassi) and Leyland, Halley and Commer (using their own engines). I believe the owner stripped the engine fairly thoroughly so would have spotted any marking on the crankcase. Seperate cylinders were fairly common in early vehicles. They allowed different size engines to be built using the same cylinder blocks, were easier to manufacture and a single block could be replaced. In my Motor Traction listing of 1908 around half the engines have seperate cylinder blocks but nothing matches up with this bore and stroke. The 1909 list shows may of the engines to have dual ignition but again nothing with the correct bore and stroke. When looking through car data only the New Engine Company, Rochet-Schneider and looked of similar dimensions to this engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozredwine Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 Hi If you still havent had any luck identifying the engine, may I suggest having the question posed on the prewarcar website Theres are wealth of expert knowledge on this period Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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