IMPORTANT SAFETY ISSUE: Driving vintage Military Vehicles on High Speed Roads

[Lauren Child]

Reading the blue light use website it mentions the use of a flashing light on vehicles with road signs attached. I wonder what the rules are on this? Could you put the blue/white arrow sign on the back of a slow vehicle like roadworks vehicles?

[psychoman]

I never fail to be amazed by the ammount of bad driving that I see on a daily basis on our roads and as long as that situation prevails we have little chance of avoiding these terrible accidents. Larger / older vehicles should be fitted with amber flashing light, that most certainly makes them highly visible to other motorists. When driving along an unlit area of dual carriageway I find that (depending on prevailing weather conditions) I can drive at maybe 55/60 mph and be able to react to any situation within my headlights, and my eyesight was perfect, however I find people overtaking me at anything up to 90 mph, I know that they cannot stop and they certainly cannot see any more than I can, that in my opinion is russian roulette with theirs and other peoples lives. My wife and myself decided on a particularly nice and sunny Sunday to go for a drive into Wales. The roads were very winding, as we approached a right hand bend a car travelling towards us came around the bend at such a speed that he lost control and careered onto our side of the carriageway for some considerable distance before regaining control, had we been a little nearer to that bend, we might have become just another statistic......... speed is the real problem here, not the lack of it. Too many people think that the road is a race track.

 

Big Ray - can't argue with you - but there's not much you can do about other people's behaviour - there is something you can do about bettering your chances of being spotted though, which is the key point here, especially when potentially high speed differentials are involved.

[Big ray]

Big Ray - can't argue with you - but there's not much you can do about other people's behaviour - there is something you can do about bettering your chances of being spotted though, which is the key point here, especially when potentially high speed differentials are involved.

 

Absolutely correct.

[cordenj]

Thought I'd give this thread a nudge again....

 

I think Big Ray hits the spot with:

"... but there's not much you can do about other people's behaviour - there is something you can do about bettering your chances of being spotted though, which is the key point here, especially when potentially high speed differentials are involved."

 

 

I've recently been involved in assisting with some formal tests of 6 volt Jeep light visibility at twilight. It confirmed my belief that these lights ARE perfectly visible; indeed in the tests they were found to be at least as effective as a modern vehicle used for comparison.

 

So for me, the speed differential is the real issue, the key is to make the MV standout as being "something different" to the average road user and get them to give us a second look...and then realise we are travelling at 30-40mph slower than they are.

Over the summer I've been looking out for how others looked at mkaking themselves stand-out, a few examples:

 

 

 

As I have said before inthis thread, I'm not endorsing any particular solution, as each MV owner will need to decide how they comply with all the requirements of the road traffic legislation....and yes, a couple of the examples I've posted would need to consider whether their registration plate was obscured.... but any other examples out there?

John

[No Signals]

[Enigma]

As stated lights/visibility doesn't have to be the issue.

Speed difference is.

So in the dark (or even in the day) I use a Amber beacon where there is a speed difference.

Also I use a panel in a hidious yellow/purple-ish colour, works in the day, not at night.

 

To use the beacon I installed a cigarette lighter thinghy in the Dodge so I just have to plug it in.

Also usable for a Tomtom. (I use small solar panel with internal battery's for my Tomtom though).

[rbrtcrowther]

Whats wrong with the Land rover light weight? They have the same running gear as a normal landy and with the 2 1/4 petrol should be good for about 50mph easily 65 with an overdrive. I don't drive with a huge sign on the back of my landy in fact any land rover i've owned and the other ones were dark green (not bright yellow like the current one) I don't think it makes a blind bit of difference how flashing bright orange your vehicle is if the guy behind is asleep/ fiddling with his radio/ or just daydreaming your going to get hit.. Hell my mate got rear ended twice in 6 months on the M5 by sleeping lorry drivers....He was stopped in a queue in the middle lane on both occasions and both times the sleeping artic driver drove straight up the back of his low loader covered in flashing beacons then slid off said low loader slamming into central reservation before ricocheting back into the tractor unit. Both times he was running empty with all of his amber beacons on the trailer and cab unit in full vision from all directions as he had turned them on cos of the cue..

If your going to use a trailer board remove the triangular reflectors cos they are for trailers, feel free to use square or oblong or even round....Just not triangular.

I saw the real proper army on the M5 on the way home from Plymouth not a flashing beacon in sight or reflective flapping banner just had their lights on plodding along a about 40mph in the slow lane. Accidents will happen and it's a terrible shame. I won't take my Scammell duel carriageway it's just not worth it, It's no fun, boring,

Why even bother going on a motorway just take an extra couple of days and enjoy the lovely B roads....:-D

[Degsy]

Until drivers learn to concentrate it will make no difference how visible your vehicle is, it is a problem that we have suffered from for years with tractors and JCB's which can be lit up like christmas trees but people still fail to take action in time.

[rbrtcrowther]

Another sad case happend up my way, A farmers jcb ran out of fuel on a country lane so he left it in the dark to get a jerry can of fuel. In the meantime a car plouged into it and the driver was killed. The farmer went to prison for not leaving any lights on or warning signs...

[Sgt. Tom]

...

its all well and an a extreamley gd idea to have your mv higly visable from the rear if your going to plod up and down the moterway at a slow speed but just because u think you have made your vehical HIGH VIZ dont think you are compleatly SAFE

...

but they all ways make it out just in time to miss me . but what about the next vehical behind the one that just passed they are now left with less than 30 ft to react slow down and pass and this is when you are most likely to get hit in the rear and unless peoples attidude changes u will never cure this problem .

 

the only thing i can say is that watch your rear view mirros like a hawk and if your vehical dosent have very gd mirrors get some fitted . if travelling in a group dont tail gate or u if u do get hit you will just get pushed into the rear of the vehical infront of u . travelling in a small groupe of 3 or 4 is safer as u will find that the flow of traffic will slow down just to have a look at whats goingon . some people mite think this is more dangerous but from my view its allways beeen safer for the person at the back .

 

nick

 

 

I have witnessed similar to this countless times. Vehicle A sees slow moving vehicle 50m ahead and pulls out to avoid. Close following vehicle B now gets to see slow moving vehicle but because he first needs check mirrors etc before pulling out does so with only 30m to slow moving vehicle. Then vehicle C sees slow moving vehicle and the same thing happens. By the time vehicle E or F sees slow moving vehicle there is no longer any time to react and a rear end shunt has become inevitable.

 

So to re-iterate the point made by Nick, WATCH YOUR REAR VIEWS LIKE A HAWK! Sometimes the only way out of an inevitable rear end situation will be down to you, not the following vehicles. In my view therefore, anything that makes you more visible has got to be an advantage. If you have an antenna, consider flags/pennants too.

[Enigma]

So to re-iterate the point made by Nick, WATCH YOUR REAR VIEWS LIKE A HAWK! Sometimes the only way out of an inevitable rear end situation will be down to you, not the following vehicles. In my view therefore, anything that makes you more visible has got to be an advantage. If you have an antenna, consider flags/pennants too.

 

I advice a inside mirror.

A jeep mirror for example on the side is mostly outside effective perifiral vision so difficult to see a impending a vehicle closing in.

A inside mirror gives better perifiral vision to the rear while still looking in front. That's my experience anyway.

[ArtistsRifles]

I advice a inside mirror.

A jeep mirror for example on the side is mostly outside effective perifiral vision so difficult to see a impending a vehicle closing in.

A inside mirror gives better perifiral vision to the rear while still looking in front. That's my experience anyway.

 

Internal mirror don't work to well on beasts like Stalwarts though!! :cool2: :cool2:

[Enigma]

Internal mirror don't work to well on beasts like Stalwarts though!! :cool2: :cool2:

 

You got me there, guess it applys to a lot of vehicles.

Then again a Stalwart is a bit more stable when rear ended by a civvie car than a jeep. Stll not good though.

 

Would a rear view camera on the dash help or just blind you in the dark?

[Tony B]

You got me there, guess it applys to a lot of vehicles.

Then again a Stalwart is a bit more stable when rear ended by a civvie car than a jeep. Stll not good though.

 

Would a rear view camera on the dash help or just blind you in the dark?

Rear view cameras on permenatley are a distracting pain in the A**! They were tried on our fleet a few years back. To distracting as they flicker at night. Get a set of clip on towing mirrors. I hung a large set of unbreakable bus mirrors on the 101 made a great deal of diffrence, especially as she was left hand drive in UK.

[Enigma]

Rear view cameras on permenatley are a distracting pain in the A**! They were tried on our fleet a few years back. To distracting as they flicker at night.

 

I suspected something like that.

[ArtistsRifles]

You got me there, guess it applys to a lot of vehicles.

Then again a Stalwart is a bit more stable when rear ended by a civvie car than a jeep. Stll not good though.

 

Would a rear view camera on the dash help or just blind you in the dark?

 

Very distracting - I usually turn the one in the OT-90 off when driving forwards, only switching it back on when reversing.

 

Safest thing in a Stolly is another pair of Mk 1 eyeballs in the commanders slot.

[Enigma]

Very distracting - I usually turn the one in the OT-90 off when driving forwards, only switching it back on when reversing.

 

Safest thing in a Stolly is another pair of Mk 1 eyeballs in the commanders slot.

 

Thanks for explaining.

A extra pair of eyes can indeed offer a lot of help.

[N.O.S.]

This morning I passed a nice Jeep bumbling along the other way towards Snetterton Heath. It was a bright sunny morning and the lane was covered in dappled shade (or is that dappled sunlight?....) from the tall hedgerows.

 

Surprisingly the jeep was almost invisible, the light and shadowed areas of O.D. blending almost seamlessly into the verge and hedge.

 

Well it would have been, were it not for the large yellow convoy flag sticking up above canvas height, and (as I looked in my rear view mirror) the rectangular orange/yellow reflective board in the centre of the spare wheel.

 

If ever you wanted a good example of both how dangerous O.D. vehicles can be, and how to make yourself more visible and thus more safe, this had to be it.

 

10/10 Sir, whoever you were!

[Gerry275]

Have been chatting to a fellow jeep owner today, and we got talking about the A120 crash and making our jeeps more visible. He was looking into putting l.e.d.'s on the back with a 12v slave battery, I am doing similar but easier and cheaper- Get a cycle rear light LED's and attach to the Jerry can handle. (easy and cheap) I spent too many yr.'s timetrailling on A12 (always with a light)

 

Any other suggestions?

 

Gerry

[Marmite!!]

Any other suggestions?

 

Gerry

 

http://hmvf.co.uk/forumvb/showthread.php?25210-IMPORTANT-SAFETY-ISSUE-Driving-vintage-Military-Vehicles-on-High-Speed-Roads

[Gerry275]

Yup I saw that before and fair point. I dont want to raise that again. Maybe i need a follow me jeep. As a risk ass.

A)I want to drive the jeep

B) I dont want to be hit

C) I dont want to break the law.

 

Gerry

[Marmite!!]

Yup I saw that before and fair point. I dont want to raise that again. Maybe i need a follow me jeep. As a risk ass.

A)I want to drive the jeep

B) I dont want to be hit

C) I dont want to break the law.

 

Gerry

Threads merged as members will be just reposting suggestion already posted.

[Great War truck]

Not just high speed roads. I was out in the Jeep today down a lovely single track country lane. One of my favourite Jeeping roads around here. Around a blind corner came a new range Rover towing a horsebox and doing about 50 Mph. I went up on to the verge and stopped just short of a tree. She (for it was a she) went up on the verge on the other side (thankfully no hedge) and drove with two wheels in the rape seed field. She didnt actually slow down. I went back to have a look around the corner thinking she might be on her side in the field and just saw the crushed crops and the Range Rover driving off in to the distance.

 

It seems they are out to get us wherever we are. It did give me quite a suprise as i really thought my time had come. The safest alternative is to lock your Jeep in the garage and never go out. Not really for me though. i cant really amend my driving style though as i was driving perfectly correctly. As my Grandfather said "Expect a fool around every corner", or as Dave Allan says "live every day as it is your last - and one day you will be right".

[cordenj]

I started this thread following the death of my friend, Marc Open, when we were returning from a wonderful trip by Jeeps to Monte Cassino and Anzio in June 2011; is is perhaps fitting that I report on the conclusion today at Canterbury Crown Court of the prosecution of the driver that hit Marc.

 

http://www.itv.com/news/meridian/update/2012-11-01/van-driver-guilty-of-causing-death-by-careless-driving/

 

I was a witness for the prosecution this week; and forum members may also be interested to know that I was cross-examined by the defence barrister at some length on the contents of my initial post on this thread. A useful reminder to all that these forum are open to all to see.

I deliberately chose my words carefully in this thread and in related articles published following the crash, so felt I was able to defend our position with using older vehicles...be they MVs or other classics.

Edited November 1, 2012 by cordenj

[N.O.S.]

.......I was a witness for the prosecution this week; and forum members may also be interested to know that I was cross-examined by the defence barrister at some length on the contents of my initial post on this thread. A useful reminder to all that these forum are open to all to see.

I deliberately chose my words carefully in this thread and in related articles published following the crash, so felt I was able to defend our position with using older vehicles...be they MVs or other classics.

 

I think the integrity of your initial post speaks for itself :thumbsup: Thanks for letting us know the outcome.