question White or Silver?

[ajmac]

Generally WW2 US armoured vehicles were painted white on enclosed internal surfaces, where UK machines were painted silver... is that correct or way off? I ask as when reading about the Churchill Mk4 restoration for NM by the IOW, the photos show a silver respray but the text states that they are to be corrected to white later on.... any remenants inside your Mk4 hull or turret Rick?

http://www.churchilltank.com/Home_Page/MK_IV.html

Edited June 13, 2011 by ajmac

[Adrian Barrell]

Generally correct. For a time, British vehicles were painted white but reverted to silver as soon as the special pigments were available again. I have seen silver over white in Covenanter so I'm happy that silver came back into use quite some time before the end of the war.

 

As in most things to do with colour and painting, there would have been a fair bit of variation in timeframe from factory to factory and indeed unit to unit.

[ajmac]

I remember in Dennis roberts' grizzly the interior was silver, perhaps the only shermans like that, must have been a British requirement spec.

[Adrian Barrell]

The Grizzlies were white when new and had been painted silver at some point in their lives.

[Richard Farrant]

I remember in Dennis roberts' grizzly the interior was silver, perhaps the only shermans like that, must have been a British requirement spec.

 

It spent longer in Portugese army service and that is where the last layers of paint will have come from.

[Adrian Scott]

We have gone for white interior in the m10 and have painted the checker plate floor below the open turret green !!

[Niels v]

The Humber Mk 4 that I have been working on where silver inside, the danish staghound Mk 3 is also silver.

[ajmac]

 

The Grizzlies were white when new and had been painted silver at some point in their lives.

Interesting stuff, I hadn't realised that.

[Tony B]

Obvious question: Why Silver?

[Adrian Barrell]

A light colour for obvious reasons but I believe it was a special paint that did not flake when the tank was hit but not penetrated. I've heard tell it never properly dried and crew would come out with a sheen!

 

Believe it or not, flying paint chips can quite easily 'take someones eye out', especially when propelled by an 88!

[Tony B]

Spall has been a problem since the Tank was first developed. A projectile does not even need to penetrate, As Adrian says even paint chips proppeled by the shock waves generated can have nasty sharp edges. In the first Tanks the crew were issued with chain mail masks as some protection. So when were spall liners intoduced? The problem was known since the days of wooden warships and cannon.

[griff66]

i thought the silver paint was fire proof as well

[Richard Farrant]

I've heard tell it never properly dried and crew would come out with a sheen!

 

 

 

Adrian,

 

That is quite true, on post-war vehicles at least. When working inside "A" vehicles, when they were in-service, your knees and boots would gain a silver sheen to them whilst crawling around, and quite often these vehicles had not been painted inside for many years. Not quite so much that it never dried, but it remained soft, therefore did not flake.

 

On British armour, silver was used on interiors before WW2.

[ajmac]

 

Believe it or not, flying paint chips can quite easily 'take someones eye out', especially when propelled by an 88!

I quite believe it..... We have the paint sorted chaps, so you don't need to worry about paint chips doing you any harm. Any more questions? Rivets, you say...hmmm, what problem do they pose?

[eddy8men]

been chatting to some churchill guys on another forum and they said they had only ever seen white interiors on mk4's.

the best interior scheme i ever saw was the duke of boots saxons in bosnia, every inch of space was plastered with porn so it was mostly pink with the odd blonde or brunette patch :cool2: thinking of doing the same with the churchill.

[private mw]

:n00b:

[Adrian Barrell]

I quite believe it..... We have the paint sorted chaps, so you don't need to worry about paint chips doing you any harm. Any more questions? Rivets, you say...hmmm, what problem do they pose?

 

Good point! Priorities a bit mixed......

[Stormin]

been chatting to some churchill guys on another forum and they said they had only ever seen white interiors on mk4's.

the best interior scheme i ever saw was the duke of boots saxons in bosnia, every inch of space was plastered with porn.

I suppose as long as it's soft it should be safe

 

...thinking of doing the same with the churchill.

Surely you'll need to get a good source for suitable WWII images.

[AlienFTM]

One of my numerous books scattered around the house describes a Sherman crew having the tank shot from under them in Normandy and being issued a brand new one. Spent as long as it took chipping off the white interior paint for reasons already discussed.

[Starfire]

As I understand it, the silver paint used by the British is actually based on an aluminium powder held in suspension. From Clive's PAINTINGpart1.pdf:

 

Aluminium Specification CS1837

for the interior metalwork and woodwork of armoured vehicles, (except armoured command vehicles). No further finishing coat required.

 

 

From what I have read, it starts out very shiny and fades to a dull grey as it oxidises over the course of a couple of years. I believe its primary use is as a flame retardant coating, more than for any anti-spalling effects.

 

As has been noted, it is very good at staining things, silver-ish to start with going to grey/black as it gets older. Most modern restorations make use of a silver coloured paint, which neither tarnishes, nor stains - although it doesn't have the same fire resistant properties.

 

Cheers,

Terry

[tankdriver]

The M5A1 Stuart I owned was silver on the inside. It was a Canadian lend lease, that was sold to a country in South America (Brazil I think) then can back into the US where I purchased it.

[andym]

As I understand it, the silver paint used by the British is actually based on an aluminium powder held in suspension. From Clive's PAINTINGpart1.pdf:

Aluminium Specification CS1837

for the interior metalwork and woodwork of armoured vehicles, (except armoured command vehicles). No further finishing coat required.

 

 

From what I have read, it starts out very shiny and fades to a dull grey as it oxidises over the course of a couple of years. I believe its primary use is as a flame retardant coating, more than for any anti-spalling effects.

 

As has been noted, it is very good at staining things, silver-ish to start with going to grey/black as it gets older. Most modern restorations make use of a silver coloured paint, which neither tarnishes, nor stains - although it doesn't have the same fire resistant properties.

 

Cheers,

Terry

 

Agreed - here's what the paint looks like when just applied. It's very, very shiny.

 

 

It will dull down with time as it oxidises and yes, if you touch it your fingers (and clothes!) come away with a slight sheen on them.

 

Andy

[Tim Isaac]

As I understand it, the silver paint used by the British is actually based on an aluminium powder held in suspension. From Clive's PAINTINGpart1.pdf:

Aluminium Specification CS1837

for the interior metalwork and woodwork of armoured vehicles, (except armoured command vehicles). No further finishing coat required.

 

 

From what I have read, it starts out very shiny and fades to a dull grey as it oxidises over the course of a couple of years. I believe its primary use is as a flame retardant coating, more than for any anti-spalling effects.

 

As has been noted, it is very good at staining things, silver-ish to start with going to grey/black as it gets older. Most modern restorations make use of a silver coloured paint, which neither tarnishes, nor stains - although it doesn't have the same fire resistant properties.

 

Cheers,

Terry

 

Somewhere in our paint store we have a tin of silver "aluminium flake" paint that was thought to be military contract.

[Starfire]

Somewhere in our paint store we have a tin of silver "aluminium flake" paint that was thought to be military contract.

 

Is it marked CS1837?

[andym]

DEF-STAN 80-9/1 is what's wanted - thanks to Clive for letting me buy the tins lurking at the back of his workshop!

 

 

Andy