question what happened to the colection at grange cavern

[mike30841]

I believe I own the remains of the Bedford QLR - this is the one that Stuart Wright recovered from a Leeds scrapyard a few years ago. The rear body was beyond saving, but when stripping it off we found the display board for the vehicle from Grange Cavern Museum amongst the remains.

The vehicle is to be restored (a replacement cab is currently being worked on by Melvin Bean), but because the radio body was beyond saving it will be resurrected as a QLD - I have an original GS body to go on it.

[Larry_uk]

Can anybody tell me who arrange the auction please?

I'm trying to track down my grandfathers DFC and telegrams that were loaned to the museum.

But vanished when it shut down. Thank you

 

[REME 245]

Presumably if you have written proof of the loan of the Medal from the owner of the Museum you have obtained a crime incident number from the Police. 

The medal may be tracable by advertising on the varions collecters sites but obviously you stand no chance of recovering the medal without evidence.   One reason I don't give/loan things to Museums including Bovington in my case as items can disappear.

 

Edited June 6, 2020 by REME 245

[Rootes75]

So what would have happened to all the smaller artefacts then?

Into other collections? Surely they couldn't have been sold off without the loanee consent etc?

[wally dugan]

 Most museums should have a disposal policy unfortunately  they do not always stick to it in the case of closure some one is appointed to dispose of the items hopefully by contacting anyone who has gifted or loaned a item to the museum and in some case the person or persons have no idea what the item means or they have no means of contacting the person who gifted or loaned the item or just do not bother. In the case of a auctioneer been involved they may have records of the sale and  who bought the  item there should have been a catalogue of items and by the way a museum can just get rid of a item without contacting the stake holder or the donor and give a reason as feeble as been to busy would l give  or donate a item to any museum having worked in one the answer would be NO not under any  agreement

Edited June 6, 2020 by wally dugan

[Surveyor]

Out of pure curiosity what happens if the item is disposed of then the owner who loaned it turns up wanting it back?

[Rootes75]

Also, over time the original loanee may have moved or passed on etc? I wonder if the museum cant trace a loanee do they then make the decision to hold it ir sell it?

[wally dugan]

There are a  number of case were a item has been disposed of and the loaner was not informed one such case the person who  gifted it was informed that as they had handed the item to a third party they had no further interest in it unless you  have had first hand experience 0f this you have no idea

[Noel7]

Legally speaking there is a big difference between a loan and a gift. The latter becomes the property of the recipient [the museum in this case] and they can dispose of it when and how they choose to do so, for any reason or none, and without reference to the donor. A loaned item, in theory, cannot be disposed of at all, as it is not the property of the museum, and any buyer will get no legal title to it [whether they realise it or not] as the museum did not hold legal title. In practice, if the person that loaned it, or their heirs, cannot be found, then disposal may become possible after reasonable attempts have been made to find them, but the situation is not straightforward. Of course, if there is no evidence it was a loan, rather than a donation, then making a legal case for the return of the property may well be somewhere between very difficult and impossible.

I'm not a lawyer, but have family medals on loan to a regimental museum; under their procedures the loan has to be renewed every three years, so lots of paperwork for evidence...

[Rootes75]

58 minutes ago, Noel7 said:

Legally speaking there is a big difference between a loan and a gift. The latter becomes the property of the recipient [the museum in this case] and they can dispose of it when and how they choose to do so, for any reason or none, and without reference to the donor. A loaned item, in theory, cannot be disposed of at all, as it is not the property of the museum, and any buyer will get no legal title to it [whether they realise it or not] as the museum did not hold legal title. In practice, if the person that loaned it, or their heirs, cannot be found, then disposal may become possible after reasonable attempts have been made to find them, but the situation is not straightforward. Of course, if there is no evidence it was a loan, rather than a donation, then making a legal case for the return of the property may well be somewhere between very difficult and impossible.

I'm not a lawyer, but have family medals on loan to a regimental museum; under their procedures the loan has to be renewed every three years, so lots of paperwork for evidence...

That does make very much sense. I note that our county museum in Taunton has the Somerset Light Infantry museum incorporated and they have an awful lot of Medals.

I presume that most of them are on loan.

Kevin

[wally dugan]

 what you say is all well and good if the museum follows the policy's  laid down by the museum and galleries and if there are not a registered museum they are not bound by these  when a museum wishes to dispose of items they must follow the guide lines which clearly state they must contact  people and were applicable  other groups including all such as the people who gifted the items to see what there wishes are  and as l have said this is not always the case even when conditions have been applied to a gift which  is the case sometimes unless it happens to you  and god forbids it does  and l do know the legal position having been there also l have worked in a museum and know that this does happen not thank fully in the one l was involved with

[Noel7]

3 hours ago, Rootes75 said:

I note that our county museum in Taunton has the Somerset Light Infantry museum incorporated and they have an awful lot of Medals.

I presume that most of them are on loan.

Kevin

No way of telling. Many families are not that interested in keeping or selling the medals [which are often not particularly collectable anyway], so are quite happy to donate them. In my case they are my grandfather's, and I have chosen to loan them for the moment, along with what survive of his service records, as did my father originally, but there are no more descendants to take them, so I'll probably donate them sooner or later.

 

2 hours ago, wally dugan said:

when a museum wishes to dispose of items they must follow the guide lines which clearly state they must contact  people and were applicable  other groups including all such as the people who gifted the items to see what there wishes are 

Unless there is a contract relating to the donation which says otherwise [like, for instance, that the donor has to be offered a chance to buy the items back before they are offered to someone else], this is just a courtesy to the donors and breach of a code of practice, so far as I know, has no sanctions attached in such circumstances generally, sadly. If the item is loaned to someone or some organisation, however, it is not their property and selling it without the owner's knowledge and permission will probably give the owner the right to take legal action against them, and possibly anyone acting on their behalf and also the buyer [even if he was not aware of the situation]. It may also involve them in criminal proceedings. As with all legal matters, much depends on circumstances.

 

[wally dugan]

I am sorry to say this but as you have never had this problem then you do not know well l have it cost me a five figure sum  in legal fees and l had every piece of  evidence  and it was not a small county museum but a national one  l could say more but what's the point

[Beatdog]

I was a serving member of 1st Royal Tank Regiment when I visited after my parents moved to Prestatyn early 1982. I visited the museum with my then girlfriend, now 32 years my wife. I'd always said that once leaving the Army I would donate whatever equipment I had left over and some photographs, sadly by 1993 when I "de-mobbed" the museum had gone. Recall seeing an American Armoured Car on a drive on the coast road and thought it might be being restored for the museum. Reason I'm posting, just picked up a post on another facebook page where a member has posted about 6 booklets published by the Tank Museum in Dorset circa 1960/early 70's, made me dig out my collection of 9 booklets and found with them 2 booklets from the Grange Cavern.

 

[Phil1982]

Hello all. Does anyone know where the sexton went from the cavern museum? 

[IoRees]

Does anyone know where the Willys Jeep went off after the closure of the museum? It used to belong to my uncle and was used as a farm vehicle until he passed away and it was sold to the museum.

[Ian Goudie]

I had an exhibit in the museum.... A Spitfire oxygen bottle found on Talacre Beach in 1979. I leant it to them on the basis that I retained ownership. 

When they closed and disappeared, I lost my item, and to this day, have no idea what happened to it. 

Would dearly like to retrieve it for my own collection, having served in the RAF after lending this to the Museum in good faith.