question Canvas life span

[Johnh]

Well thought it was time to ask another daft question...well a few really:undecided: I have been tormented by the sight of a CCKW 353 stored out in the open very close to where I live (Thorne actually) just wondered how long the canvas would hold up, being left out over this past winter etc also what does 'banjo axle' mean ? seen it referred to many times but can't find the definition. I know I really want to get a Reo but....:red:

[Tony B]

I've had a breathable caravan cover over the Dodge the last couple of years. Excelleent for outdor storage.

[Johnh]

I've had a breathable caravan cover over the Dodge the last couple of years. Excelleent for outdor storage.

 

Just wondered Tony, the truck has been parked up in a sheltered spot but been covered in the regulation foot of snow a few times plus all the heavy rain etc etc The canvas has sagged off the rear hoop and the rear flap looks too have fallen to the load area, the cab side screens aren't in place etc, anyway just thought I would ask the Knowledgable Grail of HMVF:blush:

[ferrettkitt]

Just wondered Tony, the truck has been parked up in a sheltered spot but been covered in the regulation foot of snow a few times plus all the heavy rain etc etc The canvas has sagged off the rear hoop and the rear flap looks too have fallen to the load area, the cab side screens aren't in place etc, anyway just thought I would ask the Knowledgable Grail of HMVF:blush:

 

I have a canvas that had been fine until last years snow and cold weather but after that bout of weather I found that it had perished and ripped quite easily. My suspicion was that it had become water logged frozen and then become unusable.

[Degsy]

The 'Banjo' axle had a large spherical diff and was made by Chevrolet. The Timken axle had a much smaller diff with a ring of bolts around one side allowing it to be split at the diff, due to overloading the Timken type was prone to breakage at this point.

[Tony B]

I've cured the canvas sag by putting light plastic sheet on top of the frame under the canvas. Fortunatley despite all the weather has thrown at it the cover withstood it.

[Johnh]

Thanks for the replies Chaps ! I just wanted to be sure before getting excited, plus i haven't got workshop space till April 21st, and as usual march/April weather can get pretty wet as usual !!. Apparently the Owner has a B&B at Thorne and he has been advertising the GMC at Car boot sales in Doncaster and it was on Milweb some time back. I was hoping to catch Phil Jarvis at the museum but as usual he is away working I am sure he will know of the owner

[Johnh]

Having read through my previous post... What i forgot to ask was; How long do canvas covers last if left outside instead of Barn storage or shed cover ? Being conscious of stronger uv degradation plus as already stated extreme weather conditions. Is there a rule of thumb inspection system ? ie can you age range a cover easily etc, sorry for the long winded and wandering question, thank goodness there is a 'stupid question ' section, or I think I would have been drummed out of this forum by now:red:

[Tony B]

There are prioducts available from Nikwax, my favourites, or saddelers or good old Johnson's weather seal. These will treat and clean canvas. Mould is the worst thing. Don't be tempted to wash with detergent, dosen't do it any good. Best thing is to wash on the vehicle. You can use pur soap such as Lux. Rinse very well and allow to dry to damp before applying treatments. Canavas patching can be done by a saddler. Treat any leather straps etc withh a good treatment such as Nikwax or Neats foot oil;. Most leather fitting will be a Chrome tan (Blueish colour with a distinct middle layer in the tan) that is the only stuff to use on truck canvas waterproof and very hard wearing. As long as the canvas is clean it should last many years. Stres points such as corners are the bad places. Canvas sails used to be treated with a mix of fish oil and paint pigment.

[Johnh]

Thanks Tony, most helpful:) really appreciate your guidance

[Big ray]

The canvas will remain serviceable provided that its waterproof, once that it absorbs water it will very soon rot......... the Banjo axle has already been described to you along with the split diff, its true that the split diff was prone to failiure if over loaded, but we are not going to overload (cannot carry a load if not tested) so thats not an issue, and the split axle is quieter than the Banjo. I have had my GMC since the 1980s ( Rag Top 353 ) and I have driven several Reo`s, unless you are looking specifically for a wartime vehicle......... buy the Reo.

Esier to drive, and faster in todays traffic, and better on fuel. My GMC is Banjo axles.

Welcome to the forum, and have fun. :kissoncheek:

[Degsy]

Sorry Ray, I beg to differ, sold my GMC and bought a Reo, biggest mistake I ever made.:mad:

[Tony B]

I'd agree Degsy. The wartime US stuff was built to work and be fixed, the troops need came first, not the profit of the companies.

[ferrettkitt]

I'd agree Degsy. The wartime US stuff was built to work and be fixed, the troops need came first, not the profit of the companies.

 

It used a very simple formula (KISS) keep it simple stupid.

 

Some of the best inventions in the world follow this formula the humble tin opener for instance the one with the simple handle with two holes in it with a bottle opener. How many times have you seen the 'new' version that doesn't stand up to the original for simplicity.

[Johnh]

Oh dear , what have I started ? Do flat pack display boards constitute a 'load' ?:red: We had started out with the idea of a Reo after talking to people at our aerojumble last year,and had intended to use it for the promotion of the Museum at various local events etc, I had tried to show restrain with purchasing and working on any other projects...like a Lynx. But Jeep and Cheerful came along and I became hooked on Military vehicles:blush: Recently went to See Mark Askew at Jeep promotions Bought a manual on Reo M35 last night, got home read your posts and now wondering what to do !:nut:

 

I have to say A GMC cckw 352 or 353 does fill me with trepidation to drive, I hear I will have to re-learn to double de-clutch !? a bit smaller than a Reo but it's the history and preservation that I am more concerned with, that is why we labour with love on all our Falklands collection.

Edited March 4, 2011 by Johnh

[ferrettkitt]

Oh dear , what have I started ? Do flat pack display boards constitute a 'load' ?:red: We had started out with the idea of a Reo after talking to people at our aerojumble last year,and had intended to use it for the promotion of the Museum at various local events etc, I had tried to show restrain with purchasing and working on any other projects...like a Lynx. But Jeep and Cheerful came along and I became hooked on Military vehicles:blush: Recently went to See Mark Askew at Jeep promotions Bought a manual on Reo M35 last night, got home read your posts and now wondering what to do !:nut:

 

I have to say A GMC cckw 352 or 353 does fill me with trepidation to drive, I hear I will have to re-learn to double de-clutch !? a bit smaller than a Reo but it's the history and preservation that I am more concerned with, that is why we labour with love on all our Falklands collection.

 

Go on do it, you will soon learn to double de clutch or spend lots of pennies on having the gearbox fixed. Ask for some advice or better still have someone show you what to do before you buy.

[Tony B]

You said it John, the old ones are real driving !:-D Canvas is an oiled cotton. Large application of Stockholm Tar or Barbour wax will preserve them indefinitley. Lanolin can be used BUT always wear gloves and wear woolen kit when applying it. Large aplications of raw lanolin in contact with skin can cause reactions.

Edited March 4, 2011 by Tony B

[Johnh]

Many thanks for your practical guidance ! Hopefully in the near future I will be going to look at some specimens of GMCs even as early as next weekend !?, and to recieve expert tutoring on the whys and wherefores ! and possibly adjust my rose tinted glasses !

[Degsy]

Don't rush in and buy the first one you see unless you are certain it is for you, they built 650,000 of them and there are still plenty around.:-D

[Johnh]

Don't rush in and buy the first one you see unless you are certain it is for you, they built 650,000 of them and there are still plenty around.:-D

 

Cheers Degsy, the ones I will see are all in safe hands, I am prone to be safety conscious when parting with hard earned cash ! It took me a year before I bought my first aircraft cockpit !

 

Tony has been very helpfull with practical advice, now I need to get up close and personal with a truck to see how they tick and if I have the knowhow to restore/maintain such a vehicle, hence the dreamy rose tinted glasses remark, I don't want to get a truck and not maintain it to a high standard and keep its historic status.

 

I know the Reo is a more practical/modern truck but the GMC cckw 352 or 353 is growing on me;)

[Degsy]

Hi John, I know Tony swears by Nikwax etc and they are very good products but a bit pricey when it comes to doing an area as big as a truck canvas. Thompsons Water Seal, although made for brickwork etc, works very well if sprayed on canvas, waterproofs and preserves and at a very reasonable price.

[Degsy]

 

I know the Reo is a more practical/modern truck but the GMC cckw 352 or 353 is growing on me;)

 

Personally I'm not so sure that the Reo is more practical, having worked on both vehicles I consider the GMC to be far better designed and more reliable. As was said previously KISS and it is something that definitely applies to the GMC compared to the REO. This , of course is only my opinion, others may differ but I am speaking from experience.

[Johnh]

Thanks degsy, I will store all this info ! I think we would be looking more as a working exhibit and use for local shows, rather than the 'promotional truck' as previously thought about. I think we will let the 'museum fire crew' sticker up their tacr and Stonefield, we will stay to true US Markings, and try and get a parking spot next to the waco cockpit !

[Johnh]

Personally I'm not so sure that the Reo is more practical, having worked on both vehicles I consider the GMC to be far better designed and more reliable. As was said previously KISS and it is something that definitely applies to the GMC compared to the REO. This , of course is only my opinion, others may differ but I am speaking from experience.

 

Is a M54 any more refined or just as bad as a M35a2 ? I trust in your judgement on this seeing as you know plenty already:blush:

 

I know its a 5 tonner and bigger but any good ?

[Degsy]

Basically just an M35 on steroids.

[Johnh]

Any easier to drive ?

 

Would 'Allied' do replacement canvas for them ?:red: