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buried and abandoned tanks


eddy8men

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There is alot of evidence that "reverse Lease Lend" of scrap -redundant and battle damaged tanks from the North African campaign were sent to smelting plants on the eastern seaboard of the USA in mid/late 1943. There are photos of tanks in US dumps (I think pictures were sent to the tank museum some years ago) including British cruisers and even the odd German/Italian wreck.

 

It would therefore be fairly likely that some were diverted to gunnery training from these stocks rather than be supplied from APG test alocation -although post war a swapped conqueror was used for HARM missle tests "somewhere" in the USA.

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The whole scrap question is interesting, what went and what went into a big hole or overboard. Looking at post War Singapore, there is a lot on the 15" guns being cut up for scrap and brought back to Britain. Therefore, the effort to bring that scrap 'home' seemed worthwile, as opposing leaving them there. Or was this a political act regarding the whole value of the Singapore defence and the infamous guns pointing out to sea?

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I'll be surprised if cutting up & bringing back scrap steel from Singapore would be in the least bit economical, looking at how much was lying around in Europe & North Africa and bobbing up and down in England's ports!

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  • 2 weeks later...

Just been reading a book about The Hurricane, apprantly after the war Stalin ordered all the lend lease hurricanes to be pushed down abandoned mineshafts so the people would not know that they were helped by the British, many are still believed to be there

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Hi

 

With regards to the vehicles buried on Syston common near Bristol, they were Universal carriers.We used to play on the chassis of one in the old railway tunnel running under Staple Hill and the engine of another was discovered behind the old Rodway technical college.

The Shermans buried under the Brains factory were well known by local people, the only fact we knew about them was that they had cast hulls...they were never recovered and must be still there under the car park..

 

Paul

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Hi

 

With regards to the vehicles buried on Syston common near Bristol, they were Universal carriers.We used to play on the chassis of one in the old railway tunnel running under Staple Hill and the engine of another was discovered behind the old Rodway technical college.

The Shermans buried under the Brains factory were well known by local people, the only fact we knew about them was that they had cast hulls...they were never recovered and must be still there under the car park..

 

Paul

 

You shouldn't have written that Rick will be over digging the car park up as well as the common... Sorry let me rewrite that he will be digging test pits..:-D

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i was just thinking the same thing ;)

 

paul have you got or can get a grid reference on those wrecks and can you remember where they were exactly with regard to some obvious feature ie. sw corner of car park, 100m from road bridge. basically anything that will narrow the search down to a more specific location.

cheers

 

eddy

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If you are interested in half tracks, get to the Ponderosa show in Heckmondwike (9th/10th July), my two will be there, and should be at least another three attending.

My fleet is based in Boroughbridge and Morley so just a hop away on the M62 (ish).

Ken

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In my much younger days in the 1950s the locals at Lydd were allowed a more or less free access to most areas of the camp and as my father was a member of the local coast guard at the time we often were allowed out through the ranges. One section accessable through the camp only was known to the locals as the Midrips and i often went there with the old man and what i do remember was a light tank and a mobile anti aircraft gun situated on the edge of the road that had been used for targets. in later years i now realise they were of Italian origen i think a M40? tank and a Fiat or Lancia with a 90 mm gun all gone down the melting pot now but what a find if they were still there today

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pzkpfw-e

I don't know if this one's featured on here yet.

No it's new - surprising that the zimmert is either still there or the ground conditions have caused the zimmert to etch the steel. Interesting that it's another Pzjgr4 similar condition to the one beneath the bridge which has been mentioned previously.
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...... in later years i now realise they were of Italian origen i think a M40? tank and a Fiat or Lancia with a 90 mm gun

 

A light tank would be L6/40 (a 20mm gun armed tank) if it were an M40 it would be the medium M13/40 (a 47mm gun armed tank) which at 14ton would be classed as a light tank by most people -it is a variant of the Vickers 6 tonner -similar to the Polish 7T and Soviet T26.

 

The Italian 90mm gun cannon da 90/53 CA was fitted to a number of Lancia 3 RO trucks and some were captured in the desert campaign. It was also fitted to Breda 41 6 x 4 trucks and a Breda 4 x 2 truck.

 

Certainly L6/40 and various M series Mediums were stored at Chertsey until disposed of to ranges and scrapyards. It is regretable that you didn't have the benefit of modern mobile/digital cameras in the 1950s:-(

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... Sorry let me rewrite that he will be digging test pits..:-D

 

You can't extract a sherman through a test pit -I'm sure Rick will have a trusty hydraulic breaker in his kit:cool2:. Seems quite apparent what happened to all those old Shermans -they became hardcore:-D.

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If you are interested in half tracks, get to the Ponderosa show in Heckmondwike (9th/10th July), my two will be there, and should be at least another three attending.

My fleet is based in Boroughbridge and Morley so just a hop away on the M62 (ish).

Ken

 

We'll definately be there as we hope to be purchasing a half track in the not distant future...look forward to seeing yours and meeting as many 'local' mv enthusiasts as possible.

We are new to this hobby/pastime/insane obsession? so any advice would be greatly appreciated!!

 

Cheers

 

Paul and Callum

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  • 3 weeks later...

not buried or abandoned just sunk, 7 valentine dd tanks in 15m of water off the coast 3.5 miles from swanage. i've emailed the nautical archaeology society asking for permission to remove the 6 pdr's to help with the churchill and centaur restorations when they get back to me i'll let you know what they say.

 

rick

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not buried or abandoned just sunk, 7 valentine dd tanks in 15m of water off the coast 3.5 miles from swanage. i've emailed the nautical archaeology society asking for permission to remove the 6 pdr's to help with the churchill and centaur restorations when they get back to me i'll let you know what they say.

 

rick

Eddy, you don't NAS permission to retrieve these bits. They have sponsored one, so find out which that one is. Permission is receiver of wreck and/or MOD. I emailed MOD three years ago re the centaurs in the oggin, still waiting. Also spoke to MOD Archaeologist about it.

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as far as i know the valentines aren't classed as war graves and the navy blew them up recently so they will be classed as free from explosives so the red tape should be minimal, having said that i'm only summizing that it's do-able but there's only one way to find out. have a bash at it.

 

rick

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hello to all.new to this site.....!

on the subject of wrecks there are a few still up on Sennybridge Range........two ex soviet/eastern bloc T55s(?) ...the one is in a real state and more or less completely burnt out and full of ash and spent shell cases and barbed wire..the other is out the back of the fibua village beyond the MG range and appears to 'welded up'....this one still looks quite good ( to my eyes anyways!) but whether its got an engine in or not I couldn't see..

..there is also a very rough Chieftain at the other end of the village to the rough T55 that is in a very similar state plus having some heavy damage to the suspension ...

...dotted about the village there are also lots of FV432s (?) tracked carriers in a right proper shot up state, a few Bedford lorries and a civvy pick up truck that resembles a pepperpot due to the attention of some serious GPMG action....

 

on an earlier thread ...are the Shermans at Biville still there?...anyone mounting a rescue operation yet????

excellent website by the way!

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I thought these things weren't supposed to be touched? John Pearson would know, probably.

 

Six men died in/on these tanks and only one body was ever recovered: Lt Gould. As a result of these deaths, DD tactics were changed and it was decided that the worse the weather on D Day, the closer the tanks would be taken inshore and the decision structure was changed: as a Naval operation, where to launch was a Navy decision, not Army. After the Studland losses, it was still a Navy decision but a higher ranking Army officer was attached to 'advise' his junior Navy colleague. As a direct result of these deaths, the British and Canadians launched DD's much closer inshore and lost very few. The Americans retained the original command structure and launch distance and lost almost all off Omaha. The ones off Utah and the second wave off Omaha ignored their orders, came closer inshore and launched, again these launches were successful.

 

Eisenhower prepared a signal, accepting full personal blame for the failure of D Day, should that be needed. It is not streching things too far to say that had the men not died at Studland, the British and Canadian beaches might have been the slaughterhouses that Omaha was. Maybe Eisenhowers signal may have been needed.

 

No one can stop you retrieving a gun. I even thought of trying to collect a full turret myself as some are Mk XI, a turret type that has not otherwise survived and I accepted some small parts collected and donated by divers but a gun and or turret is a large item the loss of which would be very noticable.

In view of the historical importance, (and the very poor state of steel parts recovered) should you disturb?

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