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WS.19 antenna lengths


martynsmith
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Hi guys

 

The antenna on the number 19's "B" set aerial was 20 inches long and fitted to a No. 9 Ariel Base.

 

 

Questions...

 

 

1. The B set ariel was 20'', but i'm sure I've seen longer than that fitted was that possible? Looks to be about 1/2'' diameter is that right?

2. The B set ariel was a straight rod (no taper) at 20'' but was there a 8'' B set ariel?

Were other sets ariels compatible and if so which?

3. I've seen a pair for sale on the net calling them 'F' and 'G' type ariels is that right?

4. The No. 9 Ariel Base; was it specific to the #19 set or a general fitting?

 

Ta

 

Smudge

 

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Further to Roberts answer, the F sections were 4' lengths and came in sets of three. The Canadian wartime sets screwed together and were much better than the British as they tended to stay together!

 

The G rod is 20" long and is 1/4" in diameter. There was no longer rod AFAIK, it was a very short range inter-troop set .

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Hi guys

 

The antenna on the number 19's "B" set aerial was 20 inches long and fitted to a No. 9 Ariel Base.

 

 

 

Aerial Base No.9 is the standard AFV base, and will be fitted to a tubular mounting of suitable length to clear any "clutter" on the vehicle. Later on in WW2 a "protector" was fitted - steel halo affair - to the mounting to prevent the flexible base being ripped off if the aerial snagged on a tree or similar.

 

Aerial Base No.9A is fitted to a big spring clamp so it can be attached to a stake or jeep canvas hoop.

 

Both of these require a precise length of co-axial feeder, which was available in two lengths: Leads, Aerial No.2 (ZA.3142), later renamed to Connector, Coaxial No.11, which is the shorter one, and Leads, Aerial No.3 (ZA.3143) or Conn., Coax., No.11A which is the longer of the two.

 

(Leads, Aerial, No.1 (ZA.3141) is the WS19 A set to variometer cable.)

 

There's another apparent variant of Aerial Base No.9 - fitted to a flat disc with a rubber gasket and captive nuts. This is a post-ww2 civilian effort for vehicle radio, apparently.

 

Questions...

 

 

1. The B set ariel was 20'', but i'm sure I've seen longer than that fitted was that possible? Looks to be about 1/2'' diameter is that right?

2. The B set ariel was a straight rod (no taper) at 20'' but was there a 8'' B set ariel?

Were other sets ariels compatible and if so which?

3. I've seen a pair for sale on the net calling them 'F' and 'G' type ariels is that right?

4. The No. 9 Ariel Base; was it specific to the #19 set or a general fitting?

 

Ta

 

Smudge

 

 

Aerial Base No.9 (and 9A) is specific to the WS19 'B' set for inter-vehicle communication at short ranges. It takes a single "Aerial Rod 'G' (ZA.1771)" which measures 24" x 1/4" diameter. It's thin-wall copper plated steel, either a straight tube with a metal plug at the top to keep water out, or a tapered version. The bottom end terminated in an inserted plug threaded 2BA, I think. (Can't find my thread gauge.) This screws directly into the base. (The aerial base and rod was also used with the CN348 (Burndept?) VHF set for Air Support cooperation.)

 

The WS19 'A' set uses aerial bases No.8, 10 Mk.1 or 10 Mk.2, all of which take Aerial Rods "F", and allow the use of up to 16 feet of aerial (though never more than 8 feet on the move to prevent damage to the rods and/or base). The 'F' rods are 4 feet long (not counting a few odd ones for special purposes) and are push-fit (original British design) or push-fit then screw together (rolled threads on all sections) (Later US/Canadian production subsequently adopted by everyone). Base No.8 is fragile and the rods are retained by a wraparound spring clamp (which breaks or goes soft) and was replaced by Base No.10 this has a better clamp (with butterfly nut) but the rubber part was prone to shearing off the baseplate. The Mk.2 version had an improved shape for better bonding to the plate, and an improved clamp (with separate clamping and terminal nuts).

 

I must do some photographs at some point!

 

Other aerials: various long wire aerials were issued with the Truck & Ground Station, pre-cut to length for the frequency range in use. The standard lot were: 70-ft, 90-ft, 110-ft, 150-ft, 185-ft and 250-ft.

 

Aerial Masts: the Canadians produced 20-ft and 34-ft telescopic masts that could be used as vertical aerials or as supports for wire aerials. The British had the pre-WW2 34-ft sectional mast, made up of 3-ft Aerial Rods 'D', an adapter, and 12-ft of 'F rods on top.

The masts could be used on the ground or mounted on a roof insulator (Aerial Base No.3 or No.16 (which is a modified No.3 for high power) for the 34-ft British mast) on a radio truck.

 

Hope this is some help, or at least interesting.

 

Chris.

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Aerial Base No.9 is the standard AFV base, and will be fitted to a tubular mounting of suitable length to clear any "clutter" on the vehicle. Later on in WW2 a "protector" was fitted - steel halo affair - to the mounting to prevent the flexible base being ripped off if the aerial snagged on a tree or similar.

 

Aerial Base No.9A is fitted to a big spring clamp so it can be attached to a stake or jeep canvas hoop.

 

Both of these require a precise length of co-axial feeder, which was available in two lengths: Leads, Aerial No.2 (ZA.3142), later renamed to Connector, Coaxial No.11, which is the shorter one, and Leads, Aerial No.3 (ZA.3143) or Conn., Coax., No.11A which is the longer of the two.

 

(Leads, Aerial, No.1 (ZA.3141) is the WS19 A set to variometer cable.)

 

There's another apparent variant of Aerial Base No.9 - fitted to a flat disc with a rubber gasket and captive nuts. This is a post-ww2 civilian effort for vehicle radio, apparently.

 

 

 

Aerial Base No.9 (and 9A) is specific to the WS19 'B' set for inter-vehicle communication at short ranges. It takes a single "Aerial Rod 'G' (ZA.1771)" which measures 24" x 1/4" diameter. It's thin-wall copper plated steel, either a straight tube with a metal plug at the top to keep water out, or a tapered version. The bottom end terminated in an inserted plug threaded 2BA, I think. (Can't find my thread gauge.) This screws directly into the base. (The aerial base and rod was also used with the CN348 (Burndept?) VHF set for Air Support cooperation.)

 

The WS19 'A' set uses aerial bases No.8, 10 Mk.1 or 10 Mk.2, all of which take Aerial Rods "F", and allow the use of up to 16 feet of aerial (though never more than 8 feet on the move to prevent damage to the rods and/or base). The 'F' rods are 4 feet long (not counting a few odd ones for special purposes) and are push-fit (original British design) or push-fit then screw together (rolled threads on all sections) (Later US/Canadian production subsequently adopted by everyone). Base No.8 is fragile and the rods are retained by a wraparound spring clamp (which breaks or goes soft) and was replaced by Base No.10 this has a better clamp (with butterfly nut) but the rubber part was prone to shearing off the baseplate. The Mk.2 version had an improved shape for better bonding to the plate, and an improved clamp (with separate clamping and terminal nuts).

 

I must do some photographs at some point!

 

Other aerials: various long wire aerials were issued with the Truck & Ground Station, pre-cut to length for the frequency range in use. The standard lot were: 70-ft, 90-ft, 110-ft, 150-ft, 185-ft and 250-ft.

 

Aerial Masts: the Canadians produced 20-ft and 34-ft telescopic masts that could be used as vertical aerials or as supports for wire aerials. The British had the pre-WW2 34-ft sectional mast, made up of 3-ft Aerial Rods 'D', an adapter, and 12-ft of 'F rods on top.

The masts could be used on the ground or mounted on a roof insulator (Aerial Base No.3 or No.16 (which is a modified No.3 for high power) for the 34-ft British mast) on a radio truck.

 

Hope this is some help, or at least interesting.

 

Chris.

 

Hi Chris

 

B set antenna screw size is as you state 2BA

 

best

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Hi all

 

Thanks for the info; Chris you were invaluable and very interesting.

 

I do have oen last question...i read on Royal Sigs that the 19 needed verticle aerials '12ft or twin 8ft'...how does that work having determined that the No9 base won't take another 8 footer?

 

Ta

 

Martyn

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Hi all

 

Thanks for the info; Chris you were invaluable and very interesting.

 

I do have oen last question...i read on Royal Sigs that the 19 needed verticle aerials '12ft or twin 8ft'...how does that work having determined that the No9 base won't take another 8 footer?

 

Ta

 

Martyn

 

You need a Y shaped cast metal adaptor with 2 sections of F aerial in each side. Seen these on QL Radio trucks but not on tanks.

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Hi all

 

Thanks for the info; Chris you were invaluable and very interesting.

 

I do have one last question...i read on Royal Sigs that the 19 needed verticle aerials '12ft or twin 8ft'...how does that work having determined that the No9 base won't take another 8 footer?

 

 

Right, the No.9 base is for the 'B' (VHF) set only and takes the 24" aerial.

 

The 'A' (HF or short wave) set uses (usually) a No.8 or No.10 base with a variable number of 4-ft 'F' rods to make anything up to 16 feet, but 8 feet is the practical limit for operating on the move. It's not possible to tune a short aerial on the lower frequencies, and this was fixed using a "Laport" adapter [http://www.royalsignals.org.uk/photos/v.htm] which takes two aerial rods arranged as a shallow 'V'. There's also "Adaptor, Aerial, No.1" sold under a multitude of names on eBay, which is two circular metal blocks held together by a bolt and wing nut with a pin that fits the aerial base, a hole that takes the Laport adapter (or an aerial rod), and this has a serrated joint in the middle so the nut can be slackened, the blocks rotated to the desired angle, aerial inserted and tightened up, and you have a sloping rod or sloping V aerial. This was used well into the Larkspur and possibly the Clansman era.

 

Radio trucks used Aerial Base No.16, which is the pre-WW2 Aerial Base No.3 mated to a huge ceramic insulator and the actual rubber base bypassed with copper straps, for high power transmitters: the WS19HP, WS52 and WS53. This base would take Aerial Rods 'D', which form the 34-ft vertical aerial, or a large copper block & clamp (Antenna Rod 'F' Adapter No.5) which gave a very rigid twin 16-ft "Sloping Vee" aerial for use on the move.

 

I need to photograph all this stuff!

 

Minor footnote on Aerial Base No.9 - these come from the factory with the wrong retaining clip (the one for a Pye elbow socket) fitted. The correct clip (for a Pye inline socket) has to be fitted before installation on the vehicle or you'll not be able to connect the feeder cable. (This happens because the connectors are RAF kit and they almost always used elbow sockets on their equipment.)

 

Best,

Chris.

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Hi Chris

 

Thanks again a great answer and full on useful info; Photos would be great being a result of the Barnsley education system I find pictures are better than words LOL.

 

I think I've found a picture of the Laport adapter...is this it?

 

Martyn

 

Yup! The spring clamp is the same as the type used on Aerial Base No.8, and prone to work-hardening as the base flexes on a moving vehicle and the rod sways about. Eventually the spring breaks and has to be replaced. The clamp type bases are far better but came in later on.

 

Chris.

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  • 5 years later...
sorry to bring this thread back from the dead but how do the in line and right angled male Pye Connectors differ?

 

Looking to reproduce the B set aerial insulators so it would be helpful to know

 

Er, I'm not quite sure what you mean by that.

 

The panel mounted connectors are identical, except for the insulation material (Tufnol/SRBF for HF or Perspex/Plexiglas for VHF). The standard clip is intended to take a right-angled connector. (There were 'T' conectors - plug one side, socket on the other, cable in the middle - but they had a lug on the top (opposite the cable entry) to take the retaining clip.)

 

The original straight socket required a spring retaining clip shaped like a horseshoe to clip into a groove in the socket body. These were used on the WS19 aerial bases. (Replacement bases shipped with standard clips which had to be changed!)

 

There's a much later 'straight' socket that has a plate fitted (a thick washer with a tab) to allow the standard clip to be used, but those were not for the WS19.

 

Chris.

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Er, I'm not quite sure what you mean by that.

 

The panel mounted connectors are identical, except for the insulation material (Tufnol/SRBF for HF or Perspex/Plexiglas for VHF). The standard clip is intended to take a right-angled connector. (There were 'T' conectors - plug one side, socket on the other, cable in the middle - but they had a lug on the top (opposite the cable entry) to take the retaining clip.)

 

The original straight socket required a spring retaining clip shaped like a horseshoe to clip into a groove in the socket body. These were used on the WS19 aerial bases. (Replacement bases shipped with standard clips which had to be changed!)

 

There's a much later 'straight' socket that has a plate fitted (a thick washer with a tab) to allow the standard clip to be used, but those were not for the WS19.

 

Chris.

 

 

thanks Chris - it was for the aerial base end that I was inquiring - so all that was different was the retaing spring. I suppose that makes sense really. Something else to ponder

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